The Death Knell of Canada

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dr. Huk-N-Duck
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Oh my...there goes their Trudeau! ;)
 
How seriously should The Daily Mail be taken?
 
How seriously should The Daily Mail be taken?
On the one hand, it's the newpaper with the largest circulation in the UK.

On the other, it's a daily tabloid known for sensationalism, and a frequent target of successful lawsuits over the years, which calls its reliability into question.

It should probably somewhat more seriously than, say, the Epoch Times, and less than the New York Post.
 
It should probably somewhat more seriously than, say, the Epoch Times, and less than the New York Post.
With respect to the facts of the story, however, this one is accurate. When assisted suicide (which we now euphemistically call MAID, for "Medical Assistance in Dying") was legalized in 2016, it was restricted to patients with terminal illnesses.

As of 2021, this was widened to include patients with illnesses deemed "grievous and irremediable" (i.e. you are in a state of decline that cannot be reversed or relieved); however, this specifically excluded mental illness as the sole condition.

Next March, it will be possible to get suicided if a mental illness is your sole condition, provided you are otherwise eligible (e.g. able to make your own medical decisions, 18 or over, doing so of your own free will, etc.)

This comes right from the horse's mouth.
 
With respect to the facts of the story, however, this one is accurate. When assisted suicide (which we now euphemistically call MAID, for "Medical Assistance in Dying") was legalized in 2016, it was restricted to patients with terminal illnesses.

As of 2021, this was widened to include patients with illnesses deemed "grievous and irremediable" (i.e. you are in a state of decline that cannot be reversed or relieved); however, this specifically excluded mental illness as the sole condition.

Next March, it will be possible to get suicided if a mental illness is your sole condition, provided you are otherwise eligible (e.g. able to make your own medical decisions, 18 or over, doing so of your own free will, etc.)

This comes right from the horse's mouth.
Soooo....

You have a mental illness, yet you are deemed competent to make your own medical decisions?
 
Soooo....

You have a mental illness, yet you are deemed competent to make your own medical decisions?
Sounds about right, doesn't it?

To top it all off, the Web site I linked to provides a link at the end to the Suicide Prevention Hotline.
 
It's a shame they consider some of their leaders in Canada as still "living."
 
I’m going out on a limb here, but at the pace of what’s happening in Canada, I believe within thirty years, Canada will give mandates to kill citizens who they deem unworthy of life. This is a form of Nazi Germany unfolding before our eyes, and people in the United States are still complaining about Trump’s mean tweets two years later. SMH 🤦🏼‍♂️
 
Glad I don't live there! It will make it here to our country soon enough.
in some ways it is here already.... the people in the mental health field who work with the mentally ill are still firmly committed to keeping us alive and to keep us from killing ourselves..... .. but insurance companies started pushing people to consider creating their own do not resuscitate orders and pushing legalization of assisted suicide years ago..... . why?.... because it saves them money.... ... the disabled and people with health probems cost money.... but the dead cost nothing..... ..and once the cost of medical care for an individual starts costing an insurance company more than the premiums they pay... .(never mind how much they might have paid that company in the past)...... . then the insurance starts looking for way to degrade or cancel their coverage... or even cancel the beneficiary themselves...... and guess which on the politicans listen to the most...

i;m dealing with that very issue right now trying to get my dads insurance company to fulfill their obligations.... and they have mentioned the DNR and POLST route multiple times already..... it angers me more than i can express here.. because he is not anywhere close to being at an end of life situation.... he just needs a better treatment for arthritis and diabetes than they are willing to pay for...
 
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in some ways it is here already.... the people in the mental health field who work with the mentally ill are still firmly committed to keeping us alive and to keep us from killing ourselves..... .. but insurance companies started pushing people to consider creating their own do not resuscitate orders and pushing legalization of assisted suicide years ago..... . why?.... because it saves them money.... ... the disabled and people with health probems cost money.... but the dead cost nothing..... ..and once the cost of medical care for an individual starts costing an insurance company more than the premiums they pay... .(never mind how much they might have paid that company in the past)...... . then the insurance starts looking for way to degrade or cancel their coverage... or even cancel the beneficiary themselves...... and guess which on the politicans listen to the most...

i;m dealing with that very issue right now trying to get my dads insurance company to fulfill their obligations.... and they have mentioned the DNR and POLST route multiple times already..... it angers me more than i can express here.. because he is not anywhere close to being at an end of life situation.... he just needs a better treatment for arthritis and diabetes than they are willing to pay for...
My wife and I both have DNR orders. Personally, I don't see a problem with them if they're used in the right manner, and the people who use them have made clear that if there is no other recourse, pull the plug. I know I wouldn't want to live on a respirator or in a coma for years on end.
 
My wife and I both have DNR orders. Personally, I don't see a problem with them if they're used in the right manner, and the people who use them have made clear that if there is no other recourse, pull the plug. I know I wouldn't want to live on a respirator or in a coma for years on end.
when my dad was still working in EMS he said he use to come across people quite often who had gone into cardiac arrest.... and who had valid DNR orders.... but whose family present at the scene wanted an attempt made to resuscitate them anyway... ..some of those cases were very dramatic with a lot of emotions in play.... some of the families were adamant and freaking out.... .. so in cases like that he and his crew honored the family wishes and started cpr and all other resuscitation efforts... as long as the patient condition still fit the criteria as viable.... .but of course if they had been down a long time and were not viable then they explained that to the family.... .but it was never easy to do....

the problem i have with DNR orders is when a family tries to create one for a sick family member who never gave any indication they wanted that for themselves..... or like when the insurance company tries to pressure or coerce someone into it with guilt trips and such.... ...the idiot at my dads insurance company even asked me what i thought the reason was he didn;t want to fill one out..... i let her have it over the phone and yelled at her.. told he if she wanted to put her own father down like a dog when he starts getting old she could go right ahead.. but i was going to do all i could to keep mine alive.... ...

afterwards i realized i probably could have handled that a little better... ... but my dad had already told me how tired he was of hearing that from them and when she pulled that out on me i just lost it....
 
 
when my dad was still working in EMS he said he use to come across people quite often who had gone into cardiac arrest.... and who had valid DNR orders.... but whose family present at the scene wanted an attempt made to resuscitate them anyway... ..some of those cases were very dramatic with a lot of emotions in play.... some of the families were adamant and freaking out.... .. so in cases like that he and his crew honored the family wishes and started cpr and all other resuscitation efforts... as long as the patient condition still fit the criteria as viable.... .but of course if they had been down a long time and were not viable then they explained that to the family.... .but it was never easy to do....

the problem i have with DNR orders is when a family tries to create one for a sick family member who never gave any indication they wanted that for themselves..... or like when the insurance company tries to pressure or coerce someone into it with guilt trips and such.... ...the idiot at my dads insurance company even asked me what i thought the reason was he didn;t want to fill one out..... i let her have it over the phone and yelled at her.. told he if she wanted to put her own father down like a dog when he starts getting old she could go right ahead.. but i was going to do all i could to keep mine alive.... ...

afterwards i realized i probably could have handled that a little better... ... but my dad had already told me how tired he was of hearing that from them and when she pulled that out on me i just lost it....
It's never easy. Angela lost both parents this year within 35 days of each other. Dad first, suspected cancer but never diagnosed. Mom, who was in frail health as it was, was moved to where Angela's sister could care for her. Two days after the move, Mom went into cardiac arrest (sister and nurse were present). Because Mom did not have a DNR on file, Sister made the decision to perform CPR. What do you think happens when CPR is performed on a frail 80-something year old woman? They brought Mom out of cardiac arrest but her rib cage was shattered. Mom hung on two more days before she passed. Sister had spoken to Mom about a DNR sometime back but Mom was reluctant because what if she could be reasonably resuscitated? I can definitely see a problem with making out a DNR when you are of sound mind and it's not time; how do you specify when to resuscitate or when to let go? Mom's life was over when her heart quit. Resuscitation injured her and gave her two days of suffering. When she first went out, she was happy because it was a beautiful day and she was going to go to the park with her great-grandson.

Sister was beside herself with guilt because of what happened to Mom by her decision. We gathered around her and kept affirming her that she did the right thing given the circumstances. On the one hand, Mom's reluctance was completely justified and must never be second guessed. On the other, Mom and Sister would have been spared a lot of grief had she been allowed to pass naturally.

What would have been better? One thing I can and will say is that it must ALWAYS be the patient's call WITHOUT coercion from any person or agency. Sadly, too many are trying to make or encourage decisions they have no place making.
 
It's never easy. Angela lost both parents this year within 35 days of each other. Dad first, suspected cancer but never diagnosed. Mom, who was in frail health as it was, was moved to where Angela's sister could care for her. Two days after the move, Mom went into cardiac arrest (sister and nurse were present). Because Mom did not have a DNR on file, Sister made the decision to perform CPR. What do you think happens when CPR is performed on a frail 80-something year old woman? They brought Mom out of cardiac arrest but her rib cage was shattered. Mom hung on two more days before she passed. Sister had spoken to Mom about a DNR sometime back but Mom was reluctant because what if she could be reasonably resuscitated? I can definitely see a problem with making out a DNR when you are of sound mind and it's not time; how do you specify when to resuscitate or when to let go? Mom's life was over when her heart quit. Resuscitation injured her and gave her two days of suffering. When she first went out, she was happy because it was a beautiful day and she was going to go to the park with her great-grandson.

Sister was beside herself with guilt because of what happened to Mom by her decision. We gathered around her and kept affirming her that she did the right thing given the circumstances. On the one hand, Mom's reluctance was completely justified and must never be second guessed. On the other, Mom and Sister would have been spared a lot of grief had she been allowed to pass naturally.

What would have been better? One thing I can and will say is that it must ALWAYS be the patient's call WITHOUT coercion from any person or agency. Sadly, too many are trying to make or encourage decisions they have no place making.
it is a hard thing to deal with either way.... .. in the end it was your moms choice to make... and i think your sister did the right thing honoring your moms wishes... .... and according to someone who was in EMS for over 30 years - and saw both sides of the issues many times.... it is always better to have done what you can to save a life... and fail - knowing you did everything you could..... rather than to let that person die and wonder afterwards if what you did was right......

as people get older and their cartlidges become ossified and brittle - their bones begin to weaken ... ...CPR efforts are not only likely to break ribs but also likely to drive those ribs into underlying body organs or tear lung tissues.... ... after a certain age people need to be informed of what even a successful rescuscitation effort could do to them.... and what physicial damage they might have to live with after if their pulse and respirations are retored.......... ..plus they also need to be aware of what could happen if the effort was only partially successful and they ended up alive but with serious and irreversible brain damage....

but that being said..... i believe it;s the job of the family and professional health care providers to talk to people about this issue...... insurance companies have no business trying to initiate these conversations with people.... family and medical staff are doing it in consideration for what;s best for the elderly relative... ..but when insurance companies bring these issues up their only consideration is saving themselves money... and sadly that;s the only thing the government thinks about too when they start trying to make legislation on these issues...
 
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