The capricious interpretation of Bibleprotector and his claims to KJVOism

[prophet]

Now then, why are there so many contradictions in various KJVs?

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but it is painfully obvious that you would rather talk over the OP instead of interacting with it.

The question is "Why does Bible"protector" refuse to consistently exalt the Spirit, as Lord, in his own Bible?"

Either interact with this question or start your own thread. THAT would be an honest start.

Once I learned that spirit was sometimes capitalized, sometimes not, I got over it.

Fankly I prefer that spirit is lower case, so we can let the text tell us which spirit is being mentioned.

My opinion, FWIW.

 

[Ransom]

The list is not capricious. The fellow has collected a list of the most common contradictions in various KJVs.

It is indeed capricious. Of all the items in that list, only #1 and #4 can even reasonably be construed as "contradictions," and even then only by the loosest definition of "contradiction."

The rest are either synonyms, or differences in capitalization, and do not result in a change of sense.

 

[FSSL]

Now then, why are there so many contradictions in various KJVs?

I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but it is painfully obvious that you would rather talk over the OP instead of interacting with it.

The question is "Why does Bible"protector" refuse to consistently exalt the Spirit, as Lord, in his own Bible?"

Either interact with this question or start your own thread. THAT would be an honest start.

Once I learned that spirit was sometimes capitalized, sometimes not, I got over it.

Fankly I prefer that spirit is lower case, so we can let the text tell us which spirit is being mentioned.

My opinion, FWIW.

Bible"protector" erected the capricious standards. His KJV is far from his own standards of "purity."

 

[logos1560]

The fellow has collected a list of the most common contradictions in various KJVs.

Do he actually claim that his list is a "list of the most common" contradictions or is that your own claim concerning them?  That person presents them as a test for finding an edition that he claims would be the so-called PCE.

Do you really know how many actual editions of the KJV that the person actually checked?

How do you know if those 12 are "the most common" differences in present KJV editions?  Have you checked enough present KJV editions to know whether those 12 are really "the most common" differences? 

I have checked over 400 editions of the KJV in as many as 2,500 places in a good number of them.  Perhaps my research could be more broad [involving a greater number of KJV edition] more accurate and objective [involving a greater number of places checked and compared] than his.

His list does not include a number of common variations in present KJV editions of which I am aware.

In addition, his few examples do not actually properly demonstrate whether or not a.KJV edition should be considered his so-called "PCE" edition.  He will claim an edition is "PCE" if after he knows that it has other differences from his own compiled edition of the KJV.

 

[Steven Avery]

Hi,

Of all the items in that list, only #1 and #4 can even reasonably be construed as "contradictions," and even then only by the loosest definition of "contradiction." The rest are either synonyms, or differences in capitalization, and do not result in a change of sense.

The incorrect capitalization in 1 John 5:8 clearly results in a change of sense.

12. "spirit" not "Spirit" in 1 John 5:8

1 John 5:7-8
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

There are a number of fine commentaries that discuss the possible interpretations of v. 8. As an example, one of the best explanations is that this refers to the witness at the crucifixion, including the water and the blood that came from the side of Jesus.

John 19:34
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side,
and immediately came there out blood and water.

And the spirit can be seen here:

Luke 23:46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said,
Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:
and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

If that is the proper interpretation, a capital "S" is a forced mangling of the text.

Yours in Jesus,
Steven

 

[logos1560]

at Mark 1:12
some KJV's have 'spirit' while others have 'Spirit' we found that this is even in KJV's by
the same publisher.


4) My Thompson Chain Reference Bible says "Spirit"

It is true that the same publisher of KJV editions will publish editions that have variations or differences with each other. 

Whether it has "Spirit" depends upon which year edition of the Thompson Chain Reference Bible that you have.  An edition with the last copyright date being 1988 or 2007 [Fifth Improved Edition] does have "Spirit" at Mark 1:12, but an edition with the last copyright being 1964 [Fourth Improved Edition] or an edition with the last copyright being 1957 [Third Improved Edition] does not. 

Genesis 4:22 instructer [1957, 1964 TCRB] instructor [2007 TCRB]
Genesis 6:5 GOD [1957, 1964 TCRB] God [2007 TCRB]
Genesis 15:13 their's [1957, 1964 TCRB] theirs [2007 TCRB]
Genesis 30:37 chesnut [1957, 1964 TCRB] chestnut [2007 TCRB]
Exodus 6:21 Zichri [1957, 1964 TCRB] Zithri [2007 TCRB]
Exodus 34:23 Lord GOD [1957, 1964 TCRB] LORD GOD [2007 TCRB]
Numbers 14:17 my Lord [1957, 1964 TCRB] my LORD [2007 TCRB]
Deuteronomy 2:11 call them [1957, 1964 TCRB] called them [2007 TCRB]
Deuteronomy 19:5 ax [1957 TCRB] axe [1964, 2007 TCRB]
Deuteronomy 21:15 her's [1957, 1964 TCRB] hers [2007 TCRB]
Deuteronomy 22:3 all lost thing [1957, 1964 TCRB] all lost things [2007 TCRB]
Joshua 19:2 Beer-sheba, and Sheba [1957, 1964 TCRB] Beer-sheba, or Sheba [2007 TCRB]
Joshua 24:11 And ye [1957, 1964 TCRB] And you [2007 TCRB]
Judges 3:15 left-handed [1957, 1964 TCRB] lefthanded [2007 TCRB]
Judges 13:19 wonderously [1957, 1964 TCRB] wondrously [2007 TCRB]
1 Samuel 2:13 priest's custom [1957, 1964 TCRB] priests' custom [2007 TCRB]
1 Kings 6:15 cieling [1964 TCRB] ceiling [1957, 2007 TCRB]
1 Kings 22:6 the LORD [1957, 1964 TCRB] the Lord [2007 TCRB]
2 Chronicles 4:5 handbreadth [1957, 1964 TCRB] hand breadth [2007 TCRB]
2 Chronicles 13:19 Ephrain [1957, 1964 TCRB] Ephraim [2007 TCRB]
Ezra 6:4 expences [1957, 1964 TCRB] expenses [2007 TCRB]
Job 10:6 enquirest [1957, 1964 TCRB] inquirest [2007 TCRB]
Psalm 19:1 handywork [1964 TCRB] handiwork [2007 TCRB]
Psalm 62:12 O Lord [1957, 1964 TCRB] O LORD [2007 TCRB]
Psalm 71:18 greyheaded [1957, 1964 TCRB] grayheaded [2007 TCRB]
Psalm 107:17 Fools [1957, 1964 TCRB] Fools, [2007 TCRB]
Psalm 148:8 vapours [1957, 1964 TCRB] vapour [2007 TCRB]
Proverbs 6:26 adulteress [1957, 1964 TCRB] adultress [2007 TCRB]
Proverbs 13:21 repayed [1957, 1964 TCRB] repaid [2007 TCRB]
Isaiah 44:34 LORD, thy redeemer [1957, 1964 TCRB] LORD, thy Redeemer [2007 TCRB]
Isaiah 59:17 cloke [1957, 1964 TCRB] cloak [2007 TCRB]
Jeremiah 30:24 until he have done [1957, 1964 TCRB] until he hath done [2007 TCRB]
Jeremiah 34:16 whom he [1957, 1964, 2007 TCRB] [the so-called Oxford error] whom ye
Ezekiel 35:6 since [1957 TCRB] sith [1964 TCRB]
Daniel 6:23 exceeding glad [1957, 1964 TCRB] exceedingly glad [2007 TCRB]
Joel 2:24 fats [1957, 1964 TCRB] vats [2007 TCRB]

Matthew 3:10 ax [1957, 1964 TCRB] axe [2007 TCRB]
Matthew 4:1 spirit [1957, 1964 TCRB] Spirit [2007 TCRB]
Matthew 26:39 farther [1957, 1964 TCRB] further [2007 TCRB]
Matthew 26:73 betrayeth [1957 TCRB] bewrayeth [1964 TCRB]
Mark 1:12 spirit [1957, 1964 TCRB] Spirit [2007 TCRB]
Mark 1:19 farther [1957, 1964 TCRB] further [2007 TCRB]
John 11:16 fellowdisciples [one word] [1957, 1964 TCRB] fellow disciples [two words] [2007 TCRB]
Acts 7:4 Chaldaeans [1957, 1964 TCRB] Chaldeans [2007 TCRB]
Acts 11:12 spirit [1957, 1964 TCRB] Spirit [2007 TCRB]
Acts 11:28 spirit [1957, 1964 TCRB] Spirit [2007 TCRB]
1 Corinthians 4:15 instructers [1957, 1964 TCRB] instructors [2007 TCRB]

It was surprising to find that the 2007 edition of Thompson's Chain Reference Bible has the old printing error "Zithri" first introduced in the 1769 Oxford KJV at Exodus 6:21 and that remained in most Oxford and Cambridge editions over 100 years until the 1880's when it was corrected. An old printing error reappeared in a new 2007 KJV edition, and evidently KJV-only advocates are unaware of that fact. Will KJV-only advocates warn readers of this error?

Exodus 6:21 [Zichri--1560 Geneva; Sichri--1602 Bishops] [printing error in 1769 from Exod. 6:22]
Zithri (1769, 1784, 1787, 1788, 1791, 1792, 1795, 1795e, 1798, 1799, 1800, 1803, 1808, 1810, 1812, 1813, 1816, 1818, 1819, 1821, 1823, 1828, 1829, 1830, 1835, 1838, 1840, 1847, 1850, 1853, 1857, 1859, 1865, 1868, 1870, 1873, 1876, 1880 Oxford) [1778, 1790, 1795, 1800, 1822, 1823, 1824, 1833, 1837, 1841, 1842, 1844, 1865, 1869, 1872 Cambridge] {1813, 1814, 1817, 1824, 1825, 1827, 1834, 1838, 1839, 1843, 1849, 1860, 1867, 1870, 1877 London} (1851 Edinburgh) (1782 Dublin) (1785 Wilson) (1796 Bowyer) (1804 Gower) (1811 Hewlett) (1834 Coit) (1837 Cobbin) (1853 Butler) (1856 AFBS) (1859, 1868 RTS) (1988, 2007 TCRB)
Zicri (1700 MP)

Zichri (1679, 1709, 1720, 1728, 1746, 1747, 1749, 1753, 1754, 1755, 1762, 1765, 1768, 1770, 1772, 1773, 1778, 1783, 1804, 1885 Oxford, SRB) [1629, 1637, 1638, 1677, 1683, 1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1761, 1762, 1763B, 1765, 1767, 1769, 1773, 1783, 1873, 1887 Cambridge, CCR, CSTE, DKJB] {1611, 1613, 1617, 1631, 1640, 1650, 1660, 1684, 1706, 1711, 1723, 1735, 1741, 1743, 1759, 1760, 1763, 1767, 1768, 1772, 1795, 1879, 1880 London} (1638, 1714, 1715, 1722, 1729, 1735, 1756, 1760, 1764, 1766, 1769, 1787, 1789, 1791, 1793, 1802, 1806, 1810, 1820, 1827, 1842, 1858 Edinburgh) (1866 Glasgow) (1743, 1762 Dublin) (1782 Aitken) (1790 MH) (1791 Collins) (1791 Thomas) (1802, 1813, 1815 Carey) (1809, 1810, 1826 Boston) (1815 Walpole) (1816 Albany) (1818 ABS)

 

[Steven Avery]

Hi,

An old printing error reappeared in a new 2007 KJV edition, and evidently KJV-only advocates are unaware of that fact. Will KJV-only advocates warn readers of this error?

Sure. Matthew does that when he affirms the correct text: 

Exodus 6:21 editions had "Zichri" not the 1769 "Zithri".

Thanks for helping us affirm the pure editions of the AV.

Yours in Jesus,
Steven Avery

 

[Ransom]

The incorrect capitalization in 1 John 5:8 clearly results in a change of sense.

I guess Stevie doesn't know what "contradiction" means. What's the matter, can't find a dictionary on Google Books that you can pretend you've read?

 

[Vince Massi]

I should point out that Bible Protector did not invent his own perfect KJV. His research showed that the 1900 Cambridge Edition contains no spelling errors or printing errors, and it uses only the most recent authorized revision. Unfortunately, it is out of print.

He makes a free copy available online, and you can print it. Someone stated that he is now selling low-cost reprints. In 1956, the 1900 Cambridge Edition entered the public domain, so this is not illegal.

 

[FSSL]

I should point out that you are still struggling with the OP. One Thousand diversions will never cover-up the fact that Bible"protector" is capricious and deceives some by setting up false, inconsistent standards where his own Bible fails.

We know... the cat has your tongue and you are unable to reconcile the fact that the so-called perfection undermines the character of the Spirit.

 

[Ransom]

I should point out that Bible Protector did not invent his own perfect KJV.

In other words, he is exactly like everyone else in history, ever.

 

[logos1560]

I should point out that Bible Protector did not invent his own perfect KJV. His research showed that the 1900 Cambridge Edition contains no spelling errors or printing errors, and it uses only the most recent authorized revision.

Actually he compiled his edition from varying 1900's Cambridge editions printed after 1900 [around the 1920's or 1930's], and he has not demonstrated that it is 100% identical to any one Cambridge edition that was actually printed.  His edition is not actually 100% identical to a Cambridge KJV edition printed in 1900.  His edition is likely based on post-1930 Cambridge KJV editions, not on any 1900 edition.  David Norton asserted:  "By 1931 Cambridge had changed these to the current spellings, and the current text was finished" (Textual History of the King James Bible, p. 126).

There are some actual differences and variations found in Cambridge KJV editions printed in the 1900's and later [more than what David Norton is aware of].  Here are three examples.

1 Chronicles 2:55 [Hammath--1560 Geneva; Hemath--1602 Bishops] [see Josh. 19:35--same Hebrew word]
Hammath [1985 Cambridge, 1953 Pitt Minion, Cambridge Standard Text Edition, 1972, 2011 Cameo, 2011 Pitt Minnion Reduced] (2010 Local Church Bible Publishers) (Norton Critical Edition) [NKJV]
Hamath [1648, 2005, 2011 Cambridge] (2006 PENG)
Hemath (1769 Oxford, SRB) [1629, 1769 Cambridge, DKJB]

1 Chronicles 13:5 [see 1 Kings 8:65, Amos 6:14, 1 Chron. 18:3, 2 Chron. 7:8] [Hamath--1560 Geneva, NKJV; Hemath--1602 Bishops]
Hamath [1773, 1985, 2005, 2011 Cambridge, 1953 PM, 1972, 2011 Cameo, 2011 PMR] {1853 London} (1790 Bolton) (1815 Carey) (2003 IGC) (2006 PENG) (2010 LCBP) (NCE) (1853 Boothroyd)
Hemath (1769 Oxford, SRB) [1629, 1769 Cambridge, DKJB]

Amos 6:14 [Hamath--1560 Geneva, NKJV; Hemath--1602 Bishops] [see 1 Kings 8:65, Amos 6:2--Hamath]
Hamath (1772, 1777, 1784, 1788, 1792, 1795, 1804, 1810 Oxford) [1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1761, 1762, 1763B, 1765, 1767, 1768, 1769, 1778, 1795, 1800, 1817, 1822, 1824, 1985, 2005, 2011 Cambridge, 1953 PM, CSTE, 1972, 2011 Cameo, 2011 PMR] {1660, 1747, 1750, 1813, 1814, 1817, 1824, 1853, 1879 London} (1787, 1789, 1791, 1793, 1820, 1827, 1842, 1858 Edinburgh) (1860, 1866 Glasgow) (1782 Dublin) (1700 MP) (1782 Aitken) (1790 Bolton) (1791, 1816 Collins) (1791 Thomas) (1801 Hopkins) (1802, 1813 Carey) (1803 Etheridge) (1804 Gower) (1807 Johnson) (1809, 1810, 1818, 1826 Boston) (1815 Walpole) (1816 Albany) (1818 Holbrook) (1818, 1819, 1827, 1829, 1843, 1851, 1853, 1855, 1858, 1868, 1894, 1902, 1954, 1957, 1963, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1984, 1988, 2008 ABS) (1827 Smith) (1828 MH) (1831 Brown) (1832 PSE) (1832 Scott) (1835 Towar) (1836, 1848 Hartford) (1836 Stebbing) (1843, 1856 AFBS) (1846 Portland) (1845, 1854, 1876 Harding) (1910 Collins) (1945 World) (1948 WSE) (1958 Hertel) (1975, 1978, 2008 GID) (WMCRB) (2003 IGC) (2006 PENG) (2010 BEAMS) (2010 LCBP) (NCE) (1833 WEB) (1842 Bernard)
Hemath (1769 Oxford, SRB) [1629, 1790 Cambridge, DKJB]

In 2011, Cambridge University Press was evidently printing at least six varying editions of the KJV.  Those six editions are the Concord edition, the Pitt Minion edition, the Standard Text Edition or Emerald edition, the 2011 Clarion edition, the 2011 Transetto Text edition, and the 2011 edition of the New Cambridge Paragraph Bible edited by David Norton. 

Examples of actual differences between these six editions could be given that I have found in my examination of them.  These six present editions also differ from many earlier Cambridge editions including the 1629, 1638, 1743, 1762, and 1769 Cambridge.  The 2011 Clarion edition is in paragraph style and in a single-column format, and its text differs in a few places from that in some other Cambridge editions [see Josh. 4:5, 2 Sam. 18:29, Ezra 4:10, Ps. 46:1, Ps. 67:1, Ps. 90:1, Acts 11:12, Acts 11:28].  Cambridge also prints another edition, the Cambridge 2011 Cameo Reference edition [whose text is said on its box to date from the 1920’s], but its text seems to be basically the same as that in the Pitt Minion edition. This new 2011 Cameo edition agreed with a 2011 Pitt Minion reduced edition in several places where a Pitt Minion may differ from a Concord edition [Exodus 23:23, 2 Samuel 15:12, 1 Chronicles 2:55, 1 Chronicles 13:5,  Ezra 7:14, Amos 6:14, Acts 3:7, Acts 11:12, Acts 11:28, Acts 19:39, Romans 11:34, 1 Peter 1:10].  This 2011 Cameo edition did agree with a Concord in at least one place where it differs from a Pitt Minion by having “housetops” [one word] instead of “house tops” [two words] (2 Kings 19:26).  The 2011 Transetto Text edition has some differences from a Concord or Pitt Minion edition [see Gen. 6:5, Exod. 33:9, Lev. 21:20, Lev. 24:11, Lev. 24:16, Deut. 2:11, Deut. 33:12, Josh. 24:11, 1 Sam. 31:2, 2 Chron. 13:19, Ezra 2:26, Ps. 2:4, Ps. 19:1, Ps. 97:5, Eccl. 8:17, Isa. 44:24, Isa. 59:17, Dan. 1:2, Dan. 6:23, Mal. 1:14, Matt. 20:30, Mark 10:47, Acts 11:12, 1 Cor. 16:22].  The Cambridge Standard Text edition or Emerald edition has a greater number of differences from a Concord or Pitt Minion edition.  The 2011 edition of David Norton [New Cambridge Paragraph Bible] would have the most differences when compared to the other five present Cambridge editions. 

 

[Vince Massi]

As you can see from all these well-researched posts, Bible Protector's claim that there are over 8,000 slightly different KJVs is correct.

To be fair, almost all the differences involve spelling. (In 1611, Jesus was "the Sonne of God"). Most of the rest involve changing words to other words that have the same meaning.

But some words were added, subtracted, or changed in order to improve the accuracy of the text.

 

[FSSL]

Actually he compiled his edition from varying 1900's Cambridge editions printed after 1900 [around the 1920's or 1930's], and he has not demonstrated that it is 100% identical to any one Cambridge edition that was actually printed...

Which explains, when I asked Bible"protector" the date of his edition, he could not give me anything definitive. There would be NO vagueness IF it was truly a particular edition.

 

[FSSL]

To be fair, almost all the differences involve spelling. (In 1611, Jesus was "the Sonne of God"). Most of the rest involve changing words to other words that have the same meaning.

Baloney... "almost all" "most of the rest" is not true. Why use weasel phrases?

Also, why can you not interact with the OP?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Vince Massi]Most of the rest involve changing words to other words that have the same meaning.

But some words were added, subtracted, or changed in order to improve the accuracy of the text.
[/quote]

...

 

[subllibrm]

Personally, I am impressed that the guy has read the bible 8000+ times!  8)

 

[Vince Massi]

Personally, I am impressed that the guy has read the bible 8000+ times!  8)

Yeah, but if he did, he only read the real one once.

But seriously, he showed from the number of major revisions, printers' errors, misspelled words, blending of different revisions, and corrections by individual printers that there are over 8,000 slightly different KJVs.

 

[FSSL]

... and chose to amalgate a composition that does not treat the Holy Spirit with the respect he deserves.

 

[Vince Massi]

... and chose to amalgate a composition that does not treat the Holy Spirit with the respect he deserves.

I'm not trying to be hostile here. This is only one of many examples of how born-again, Godly, sincere saints fight over something that is not taught in Scripture. The Bible does not command you to capitalize "spirit." Nowhere does the Bible teach that if you do not capitalize "spirit" you are downgrading the Holy Spirit.

Basing doctrine on accusations is a bad idea--I need the book, chapter, and verse that condemns not capitalizing "spirit." I'm a fundamentalist, and I cannot be convinced of a doctrine that is based on accusations only. I need the book, chapter, and verse.