Testimony, judgmentalism, and designated drivers.

[ALAYMAN]

A couple months back I came across a young lady while soulwinning who was no longer attending  church.  She gave a credible profession of faith, but was soured on ANY church-goin'.  It seems she had a bad experience with what she perceived to be judgmental pharisees.  She had volunteered to be the designtated driver for her friends who were going out to get smashed at a local bar.  They weren't Christians, but were her friends, and she thought it was the responsible Christ-like thing to do in order to make sure they got home in one piece, and didn't kill anybody else either.  Her church got wind of her "runnin' the bars" and told her that she needed to stop such activities.  She claimed they conveyed such info in a judgmental way, and so she left the church and now just doesn't go at all because most Christians seem to jump to conclusions before hearing the matter.

What would you do if an impressionable new/young Christian member of your church were to go out regularly to the bars in order to be the designated driver for their friends?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]What would you do if an impressionable new/young Christian member of your church were to go out regularly to the bars in order to be the designated driver for their friends?[/quote]

Commend her.

And "new/young" does not necessarily equal "impressionable".

 

[jeri fletcher]

I would arch an eyebrow and not say much. When begged, I would explain in one short sentence why it's a bad idea.

 

[ChuckBob]

The life she saves may be mine or that of somebody I love. I'll tell you plain. I've DDed and held the pistols on many occasions. Ther are probably some people that are still bearthing air because of it.


ChuckBob

 

[HeDied4U]

What would you do if an impressionable new/young Christian member of your church were to go out regularly to the bars in order to be the designated driver for their friends?

Same thing I'd do if an "old in the faith" member of my church did such a thing; pat him/her on the back and thank them for thinking of the safety of their friend(s) and those who are out on the road.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Same thing I'd do if an "old in the faith" member of my church did such a thing; pat him/her on the back and thank them for thinking of the safety of their friend(s) and those who are out on the road.

Questionable testimony aside, do you think that such actions would be any enabling and/or approving your friends behavior?

 

[themagneticfields]

Same thing I'd do if an "old in the faith" member of my church did such a thing; pat him/her on the back and thank them for thinking of the safety of their friend(s) and those who are out on the road.

Questionable testimony aside, do you think that such actions would be any enabling and/or approving your friends behavior?

It could be, but not necessarily. What if she called a cab instead for her friends? Would that be enabling/approving?

 

[rsc2a]

Not to mention that it is only "questionable testimony" according to one particular type of evangelical, no one else.

 

[Ransom]

Not to mention that it is only "questionable testimony" according to one particular type of evangelical, no one else.

Exactly.  It's only "questionable testimony" because psycho-fundies will question it, assuming the worst based on appearances.

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=themagneticfields]It could be, but not necessarily. What if she called a cab instead for her friends? Would that be enabling/approving?
[/quote]

Short answer, I think that if it certainly could be enabling if it was an ongoing action, especially if there was no effort to evangelize and modify the friend's behavior.

Not to mention that it is only "questionable testimony" according to one particular type of evangelical, no one else.

You don't think it's a questionable testimony to hang out in bars?  How many bars have you been in?  Drugs, hooking up, blasphemy, organized crime, these are all part and parcel of many (maybe not all, but many) watering holes. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

Not to mention that it is only "questionable testimony" according to one particular type of evangelical, no one else.

Exactly.  It's only "questionable testimony" because psycho-fundies will question it, assuming the worst based on appearances.

lol, Big Ben and Old Faithful ain't got nothin' on you.  By your estimation Spurgeon and scores of other reformed/puritans was/are hyper-fundys.  Your enlightened and worldly attitude, which is the zeitgeist amongst the current hipster millieu sure has led culture into great revival, eh?

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

A couple months back I came across a young lady while soulwinning who was no longer attending  church.  She gave a credible profession of faith, but was soured on ANY church-goin'.  It seems she had a bad experience with what she perceived to be judgmental pharisees.  She had volunteered to be the designtated driver for her friends who were going out to get smashed at a local bar.  They weren't Christians, but were her friends, and she thought it was the responsible Christ-like thing to do in order to make sure they got home in one piece, and didn't kill anybody else either.  Her church got wind of her "runnin' the bars" and told her that she needed to stop such activities.  She claimed they conveyed such info in a judgmental way, and so she left the church and now just doesn't go at all because most Christians seem to jump to conclusions before hearing the matter.

What would you do if an impressionable new/young Christian member of your church were to go out regularly to the bars in order to be the designated driver for their friends?

This is not a simple yes or no answer.  But why stop with what she is doing?  Why not give clean needles to junkies?  Or condoms to high schoolers?  etc, etc.  Those who can't see that giving the ok to destructive behavior only exacerbates the problem need to grow up.

For those who answered  commend the lady, then why don't you offer to give your daughter condoms, birth control, and then drive her to and from the parties?  Oh my, getting mighty quiet now.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]

Not to mention that it is only "questionable testimony" according to one particular type of evangelical, no one else.

You don't think it's a questionable testimony to hang out in bars?[/quote]

Nope. 

[quote author=ALAYMAN]How many bars have you been in?[/quote]

A couple.

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Drugs, hooking up, blasphemy, organized crime, these are all part and parcel of many (maybe not all, but many) watering holes. [/quote]

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]This is not a simple yes or no answer.  But why stop with what she is doing?  Why not give clean needles to junkies?[/quote]

Yes. Why not?

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]Or condoms to high schoolers?[/quote]

Because I'm not their parents.

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]Those who can't see that giving the ok to destructive behavior only exacerbates the problem need to grow up.[/quote]

Addressing an immediate problem while taking steps to address a longer term problem is not "giving the ok to destructive behavior".

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]For those who answered  commend the lady, then why don't you offer to give your daughter condoms, birth control, and then drive her to and from the parties?  [/quote]

See above.

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]Oh my, getting mighty quiet now.[/quote]

Not really.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

One day it will all make sense.  Until then, try and grow up.

 

[Ransom]

Your enlightened and worldly attitude, which is the zeitgeist amongst the current hipster millieu sure has led culture into great revival, eh?

I'm not a hipster, but you're still an idiot.

 

[ALAYMAN]

You don't think it's a questionable testimony to hang out in bars?

Nope. 

Therein lies the problem.  Evil communications corrupt good maners, and a man ought not stand in the way of sinners.

Your enlightened and worldly attitude, which is the zeitgeist amongst the current hipster millieu sure has led culture into great revival, eh?

I'm not a hipster, but you're still an idiot.

Canuck, you need remedial reading comp class.  I never called you a hipster, but merely intimated that in part your attitude resonates with their philosophy.  Spurgeon, Tozer, and a host of others warned about the perils of worldly associations becoming the main focus of Christians, associations like "the theater" (or in the vernacular of our conversation, "bars").  Not unlike Mccarthy, you see goblins/fundys behind every keyboard.

 

[rsc2a]

You don't think it's a questionable testimony to hang out in bars?

Nope. 

Therein lies the problem.  Evil communications corrupt good maners, and a man ought not stand in the way of sinners.

I guess you missed it...

Not to mention that it is only "questionable testimony" according to one particular type of evangelical, no one else.

You do know Jesus hung out with drunks and prostitutes, right?

 

[The Glory Land]

A couple months back I came across a young lady while soulwinning who was no longer attending  church.  She gave a credible profession of faith, but was soured on ANY church-goin'.  It seems she had a bad experience with what she perceived to be judgmental pharisees.  She had volunteered to be the designtated driver for her friends who were going out to get smashed at a local bar.  They weren't Christians, but were her friends, and she thought it was the responsible Christ-like thing to do in order to make sure they got home in one piece, and didn't kill anybody else either.  Her church got wind of her "runnin' the bars" and told her that she needed to stop such activities.  She claimed they conveyed such info in a judgmental way, and so she left the church and now just doesn't go at all because most Christians seem to jump to conclusions before hearing the matter.

What would you do if an impressionable new/young Christian member of your church were to go out regularly to the bars in order to be the designated driver for their friends?

This young lady sould not be going to any Bars, but if it happened only once, no problem. But to go weekly to the Bars, this will make any Christian a weaker person.    or to become as they are dead.

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=rsc2a]
I guess you missed it...[/quote]

Never missed a thing.  I don't really care how you attempt to poison the well.  Some endeavors just ain't for Christians, and your defense of hanging out in bars in order to minister, or socialize, is still sorely immature, at best.

You do know Jesus hung out with drunks and prostitutes, right?

No, really?  Wow, I didn't know that.  Who is this Jesus character?