Tell me...

[16KJV11]

It just saddens me to see those that have been hurt by the abuse from HAC/FBC. So many have turned from the Lord and want nothing to do with "religion" I am so thankful for strong, balanced Christian parents. I was hurt in my own way at HAC, but nothing so bad to turn my heart from God. I have no patience for those that enabled the continual abuse from there.

IMHO...
Those who have been hurt and have turned away from God are in one of two categories:
They have never matured to the point where their focus is entirely upon Christ and not man.
Or, they are not saved.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=16KJV11]IMHO...
Those who have been hurt and have turned away from God are in one of two categories:
They have never matured to the point where their focus is entirely upon Christ and not man.
Or, they are not saved.[/quote]

For this and other great ways to be a total jerk, just visit our church website at www.wearesomuchbetterthanyou.org

 

[16KJV11]

[quote author=16KJV11]IMHO...
Those who have been hurt and have turned away from God are in one of two categories:
They have never matured to the point where their focus is entirely upon Christ and not man.
Or, they are not saved.

For this and other great ways to be a total jerk, just visit our church website at www.wearesomuchbetterthanyou.org
[/quote]
Maybe you can explain it in another way Mr. Spurgeon?

 

[brainisengaged]

Here at FBC we have a self-proclaimed prophet who posts Bible Thoughts daily on Facebook and got himself air time on the radio to do the same. He posted this today and encouraged folks to share it. I am not saying one way or the other how it strikes me:

A Bible Thought: Matt 18:21-22 "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Till 7 times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until 7 times: but, Until 70 times 7." Then the Lord tells the story of the man who owed the king 10,000 talents and was forgiven, and who then demanded payment from a peer of 100 pence.

Teaching: we’ve been forgiven a HUGE amount by God and are commanded to forgive the lesser amounts that our peers incur.

DING-DING-DING!!! 800# GORILLA IN THE ROOM ALERT!!!! PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!!

Some of you need to forgive Jack Schaap! Or Jack Hyles! Or First Baptist Church, or Hammond Baptist Schools or Bro. So-n-so or your parents or your ex or whomever for....whatever.

Forgiveness means to release a debt from being paid. Let it go. If wrong was done to you, release it. Let God deal with it if He sees the need to...but quit the bad mouthing, criticism, hatred, and mean spirits. “Forgive” doesn’t mean necessarily to trust again or to associate with again; it simply means to release. Forgive....because you’ve been forgiven. As one who was deeply hurt by Bro.Schaap too....trust me, it’s for the best. Do they deserve it? No, no more than you or I deserve to be saved and on our way to Heaven. Do it for His sake.

--------------------------------

Ok, maybe I will give my reaction. As always, I am willing to be told I am taking verses completely out of context and am not thinking clearly:

I wonder, though...doesn't the similar passage in Luke (Luke 17:3  "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.") teach that first the sinner is to be rebuked, and then if the sinner repents, he is to be forgiven. Many times when we are wronged, either personally or corporately, there is no opportunity to rebuke and there is no repentance...instead there is only admonition that we are to forgive. I think it is a two-way street, and bitterness creeps in when one is forced to try and forgive someone who is not repentant.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=16KJV11]IMHO...
Those who have been hurt and have turned away from God are in one of two categories:
They have never matured to the point where their focus is entirely upon Christ and not man.
Or, they are not saved.

For this and other great ways to be a total jerk, just visit our church website at www.wearesomuchbetterthanyou.org

Maybe you can explain it in another way Mr. Spurgeon?[/quote]

Honestly, just read the Psalms. It's kind of the point of a huge chunk of them.

 

[16KJV11]

[quote author=16KJV11]IMHO...
Those who have been hurt and have turned away from God are in one of two categories:
They have never matured to the point where their focus is entirely upon Christ and not man.
Or, they are not saved.

For this and other great ways to be a total jerk, just visit our church website at www.wearesomuchbetterthanyou.org

Maybe you can explain it in another way Mr. Spurgeon?

Honestly, just read the Psalms. It's kind of the point of a huge chunk of them.
[/quote]
So, what are the other options?
Someone turns their back completely on God b/c someone hurt them.
They are either not mature in their faith or they are not saved.
BTW, do I ever call names to people I disagree with on this forum?
You can disagree and be a Christian at the same time.

 

[RAIDER]

It just saddens me to see those that have been hurt by the abuse from HAC/FBC. So many have turned from the Lord and want nothing to do with "religion" I am so thankful for strong, balanced Christian parents. I was hurt in my own way at HAC, but nothing so bad to turn my heart from God. I have no patience for those that enabled the continual abuse from there.

I do believe there were some who were directly hurt by the "abuse" from HAC/FBCH.  On the other hand, I think there are many who try and use this as their reason for being out of church and away from God.

 

[kaba]

It just saddens me to see those that have been hurt by the abuse from HAC/FBC. So many have turned from the Lord and want nothing to do with "religion" I am so thankful for strong, balanced Christian parents. I was hurt in my own way at HAC, but nothing so bad to turn my heart from God. I have no patience for those that enabled the continual abuse from there.

I do believe there were some who were directly hurt by the "abuse" from HAC/FBCH.  On the other hand, I think there are many who try and use this as their reason for being out of church and away from God.

I think I agree with you!

 

[RAIDER]

It just saddens me to see those that have been hurt by the abuse from HAC/FBC. So many have turned from the Lord and want nothing to do with "religion" I am so thankful for strong, balanced Christian parents. I was hurt in my own way at HAC, but nothing so bad to turn my heart from God. I have no patience for those that enabled the continual abuse from there.

I do believe there were some who were directly hurt by the "abuse" from HAC/FBCH.  On the other hand, I think there are many who try and use this as their reason for being out of church and away from God.

I think I agree with you!

And you are now officially as smart as you will ever be.  Enjoy the next hour. 

 

[Sherryh]

I never knew everything like Clyde did but my personality is not to remain silent I would have talked to someone. Bro Pennell taught us to never follow man....We had many talks with Clyde after we left....he loved Bro Hyles and worked for js ........which I'm sure his eyes opened wide.

 

[Fresh Air]

IMHO...
Those who have been hurt and have turned away from God are in one of two categories:
They have never matured to the point where their focus is entirely upon Christ and not man.
Or, they are not saved.

Are you saying that everyone who is genuinely saved becomes a  mature Christian?

 

[16KJV11]

IMHO...
Those who have been hurt and have turned away from God are in one of two categories:
They have never matured to the point where their focus is entirely upon Christ and not man.
Or, they are not saved.

Are you saying that everyone who is genuinely saved becomes a  mature Christian?

Not at all.
Let me put it this way:
I've been personally lied to and hurt by a former 'Christian employer', seen several mentors, and many peers bite the dust b/c of scandalous behavior. 
My health really stinks in many ways, so maybe I can say that God has let me down. (just for illustration, it's NOT how I think)
My real father gave up rights to see me when I was 10, and didn't send financial help to us, basically allowing us to blow away in the wind.
I have been in over 12 car accidents, most of them NOT my fault.
I could go on and on and whine about being a victim, quit the faith, get bitter, or I can keep my eyes focused on God and His promises, and allow Him to use these seeming setbacks for His glory.
Now tell me, are my past problems justification for turning my back on Christ?
Of course not.
If I did quit on God, my faith would be pretty shallow and immature.
But, though I judge no man's salvation, one who turns completely away from Christ MAY not have been saved in the first place.
That is between him and the Lord.

 

[Norefund]

I never knew everything like Clyde did but my personality is not to remain silent I would have talked to someone. Bro Pennell taught us to never follow man....We had many talks with Clyde after we left....he loved Bro Hyles and worked for js ........which I'm sure his eyes opened wide.

I don't know what personal issues Clyde had that may have contributed to his silence. I do suspect that the vast majority of FBC and HAC members would have rejected any shedding of light he could have done anyway. He would have been one more person dismissed as a malcontent and, in his case, dismissed from employment. I'm not saying it makes him right for whatever role he had in staying silent or even assisting in cover ups. I'm just saying he wasn't the only one and it probably wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

That was depressing to type. 

 

[BALAAM]

Here at FBC we have a self-proclaimed prophet who posts Bible Thoughts daily on Facebook and got himself air time on the radio to do the same. He posted this today and encouraged folks to share it. I am not saying one way or the other how it strikes me:

A Bible Thought: Matt 18:21-22 "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Till 7 times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until 7 times: but, Until 70 times 7." Then the Lord tells the story of the man who owed the king 10,000 talents and was forgiven, and who then demanded payment from a peer of 100 pence.

Teaching: we’ve been forgiven a HUGE amount by God and are commanded to forgive the lesser amounts that our peers incur.

DING-DING-DING!!! 800# GORILLA IN THE ROOM ALERT!!!! PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!!

Some of you need to forgive Jack Schaap! Or Jack Hyles! Or First Baptist Church, or Hammond Baptist Schools or Bro. So-n-so or your parents or your ex or whomever for....whatever.

Forgiveness means to release a debt from being paid. Let it go. If wrong was done to you, release it. Let God deal with it if He sees the need to...but quit the bad mouthing, criticism, hatred, and mean spirits. “Forgive” doesn’t mean necessarily to trust again or to associate with again; it simply means to release. Forgive....because you’ve been forgiven. As one who was deeply hurt by Bro.Schaap too....trust me, it’s for the best. Do they deserve it? No, no more than you or I deserve to be saved and on our way to Heaven. Do it for His sake.

--------------------------------

Ok, maybe I will give my reaction. As always, I am willing to be told I am taking verses completely out of context and am not thinking clearly:

I wonder, though...doesn't the similar passage in Luke (Luke 17:3  "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.") teach that first the sinner is to be rebuked, and then if the sinner repents, he is to be forgiven. Many times when we are wronged, either personally or corporately, there is no opportunity to rebuke and there is no repentance...instead there is only admonition that we are to forgive. I think it is a two-way street, and bitterness creeps in when one is forced to try and forgive someone who is not repentant.

OH MY PET PEEVE! I had to unfriend this guy because he so gets on my nerves. And by the way; Why does a bible thought always have to be some kind of stick a needle in everybody's eye?

 

[brainisengaged]

BALAAM said: And by the way; Why does a bible thought always have to be some kind of stick a needle in everybody's eye?

BALAAM, that is such an apt description! Stick a needle in everybody's eye! Yes! I can't listen to him on the radio because his attitude comes across as patronizing, condescending, and superior.

 

[prophet]

It just saddens me to see those that have been hurt by the abuse from HAC/FBC. So many have turned from the Lord and want nothing to do with "religion" I am so thankful for strong, balanced Christian parents. I was hurt in my own way at HAC, but nothing so bad to turn my heart from God. I have no patience for those that enabled the continual abuse from there.

I do believe there were some who were directly hurt by the "abuse" from HAC/FBCH.  On the other hand, I think there are many who try and use this as their reason for being out of church and away from God.

I tried to, but the indwelling Creator asked me if I was angry at Him, and I told Him "no, only at people". 
It wasn't possible for me to reject God, I am His son.
I learned, through my journeys, that I had something that my companions did not....and I weep for them. 
I agree with Pittsburgher.  Many of my peers claim some version of Atheism now, but I never once entertained the possibility that  God didn't exist, love us, and express His love through His revealed Word.

My bitterness at men lasted a very short time, in the scope of my over 35 years in Christ...
just 4 years....and God asked me to do the unthinkable: forgive the poor tortured soul who sexually assaulted me.
But, God would never ask me to forgive J.Schaap, for hurting others....it isn't my right.
I am to defend others, and forgive those who hurt me.
Huge difference!

Anishinabe

 

[fishinnut]

It just saddens me to see those that have been hurt by the abuse from HAC/FBC. So many have turned from the Lord and want nothing to do with "religion" I am so thankful for strong, balanced Christian parents. I was hurt in my own way at HAC, but nothing so bad to turn my heart from God. I have no patience for those that enabled the continual abuse from there.

I do believe there were some who were directly hurt by the "abuse" from HAC/FBCH.  On the other hand, I think there are many who try and use this as their reason for being out of church and away from God.

I tried to, but the indwelling Creator asked me if I was angry at Him, and I told Him "no, only at people". 
It wasn't possible for me to reject God, I am His son.
I learned, through my journeys, that I had something that my companions did not....and I weep for them. 
I agree with Pittsburgher.  Many of my peers claim some version of Atheism now, but I never once entertained the possibility that  God didn't exist, love us, and express His love through His revealed Word.

My bitterness at men lasted a very short time, in the scope of my over 35 years in Christ...
just 4 years....and God asked me to do the unthinkable: forgive the poor tortured soul who sexually assaulted me.
But, God would never ask me to forgive J.Schaap, for hurting others....it isn't my right.
I am to defend others, and forgive those who hurt me.
Huge difference!

Anishinabe

Eph. 6:12a "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,"

We so often get turned around in our faith because of forgetting that people are not our enemy. We focus on people, set up some people on our own little pedestals & when they topple off because of 6:12b ("but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."), we get all turned-around & lay down our shield of faith & expose ourselves to those fiery darts.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I wonder how much Clyde has known about FBCH "affairs" through the years?

Let's just say some people there became "professional cover-ups" in both their own personal lives and the lives of superiors.

And that's all I have to say about that...

I always believed Clyde to be a wolf in wolf's clothing.  By the mid 90's, he didn't even pretend anymore.  My wife never could figure out why he was allowed to have a poster of the little mermaid up in his office and make regular reference about breasts to the ladies working in the security office.  Perv.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

[quote author=16KJV11]IMHO...
Those who have been hurt and have turned away from God are in one of two categories:
They have never matured to the point where their focus is entirely upon Christ and not man.
Or, they are not saved.

For this and other great ways to be a total jerk, just visit our church website at www.wearesomuchbetterthanyou.org

Maybe you can explain it in another way Mr. Spurgeon?

Honestly, just read the Psalms. It's kind of the point of a huge chunk of them.

So, what are the other options?
Someone turns their back completely on God b/c someone hurt them.
They are either not mature in their faith or they are not saved.
BTW, do I ever call names to people I disagree with on this forum?
You can disagree and be a Christian at the same time.
[/quote]

You seem to lack understanding here.  It is much deeper than "someone hurt me."  We were taught a religion.  We were told "If x, then y."  A performance based Christianity was our dogma.  We then saw that "y" never happens, no matter how much we "x."  Next, we saw the people who did get "y," never really did "x."  It sent us into a quandary.  "Is any of this real?" became a very real question.  Some, decided it wasn't, got angry and walked away.  Others, decided that God is real, but the religion promoted by our parents and heroes is a farce.  Discovering a real Christianity when so cumbered with such a near farce proves to be quite difficult.  Praise the Lord if you did not grow up in such an environment as FBCH.  Please do not condemn those of us who are trying to discover what we should have learned a long time ago.  Please be patient with those who frustration with being sold a lie their entire life has caused them to become overwhelmed with anger and walk away from the church.  Of these, I would encourage you to have compassion, making a difference.

 

[Gladstone]

Clyde Wolfe worked there over 40 years.......he was shown the door.....He could write a best seller

He fed me those lines for years too. Every time I hear someone address a person as "doc", I want to puke. The guy hurt a lot of people with his insincerity and then destroyed many more with his "indiscretion"> Nearly every week, I meet ex FBC members and ex staffers that are angry or out of church or both. I know of one that worked at the college / church for most of his life that was shown the door during the lay offs. He gave his life to the place and they gave him the boot. What a travesty! I feel for that guy.

I have determined that many of the layoffs were Eddie's little hit list. The coward laid them off and didn't have the guts to even tell them himself.

Remember, eddie is italian. They know how to manipulate, exploit and see the weaknesses in people. Even though they have never won a war or mass produced a decent car, they are Jedi's in this field. It wouldn't surprise me if your assumptions are valid.