So....

[Baptist City Holdout]

Soon I will come to myself and apologize to Aunt Elizabeth, 'er, Raider for my rash behavior.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

Also, I see form the posts about the SS lesson and last night's show that there's no reason to take a day trip to see how the old church on the corner downtown is doing any time soon. would probably bring back Vietnam flashbacks.

 

[RAIDER]

I don't think you can make a blanket statement about this issue.  Each person would be different.  I can see his point if a baby Christian is easily influenced by those who are "carnal Christians".  It would be better for him to befriend someone that would be a better influence on him.

Raider always looks on the sunny side. Guess I shouldn't have quoted from a godless movie so fast.

Ok, I feel like you have repented.  I can now be your friend again.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

I don't think you can make a blanket statement about this issue.  Each person would be different.  I can see his point if a baby Christian is easily influenced by those who are "carnal Christians".  It would be better for him to befriend someone that would be a better influence on him.

Raider always looks on the sunny side. Guess I shouldn't have quoted from a godless movie so fast.

Ok, I feel like you have repented.  I can now be your friend again.

Thank you, God bless you for being my friend.

 

[RAIDER]

Thank you, God bless you for being my friend.

I picked up a stone to throw at you and it looked like a stone I had seen before.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

So.......... to borrow a line from Driving Miss Daisy, "Things ain't changed all that much." Of course that makes me less spiritual.

BCH, you are watching movies.  I can no longer hang around you.

Cut him a break. He holds to the old paths. He watches them on his VCR!

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Thank you, God bless you for being my friend.

I picked up a stone to throw at you and it looked like a stone I had seen before.

Thou dwellest in the hole of the pit whence ye are digged!

 

[RAIDER]

Thank you, God bless you for being my friend.

I picked up a stone to throw at you and it looked like a stone I had seen before.

Thou dwellest in the hole of the pit whence ye are digged!

Thank you, brother!

 

[Bravo]

Posted by: qwerty
Was this "teacher" a person from the former administration?

No, not a former administrator. A former pastor who has moved back.

A current administrator spoke last night...were you there? Pastor is in China, so EL got to preach on his favorite hobby horse: obey your authorities. It will go very wrong with you if you do not obey and submit to your authorities. (completely paraphrased, but that was the point). Then DD got up after he preached, ostensibly to make announcements, but had to add his mini-sermon of, "Everything he just said was exactly right and you'd better listen."

But that's another story entirely! I just hijacked my own thread...

Sounds like maybe the Sunday morning message, which coincidentally with another post on this thread was about "Not Comparing" was much better that the Sunday night message. Sorry, but Eddie speaking is a get out of jail free card. His theme of listen to and do what authority says is what started the whole mess with Schaap and that teenage girl, no?

 

[BALAAM]

So...the gist of our adult SS class lesson yesterday was the need to practice separation from those less spiritual. The illustration was: it is easier for a less-spiritual person to bring you down than it is for you to bring them up to your level. I think this was a JH concept, but truthfully don't know for certain.

There wasn't an actual Scripture referenced, but the context was how Solomon's wives turned his heart away from God.

There was the typical ifb joking..."The only thing worse than having 700 wives .... is having 700 mother-in-laws!" Ha ha ha ha. "Can you imagine how long it took Solomon to leave for work in the morning? Goodbye, honey...Goodbye honey....Goodbye, honey....after all 700 goodbye kisses it would be dinner time!" ha ha ha ha

But the big point was the necessity of separating oneself from those less spiritual than oneself. I wondered, how do we get to determine what level spirituality we are on? And how can we discern what level our acquaintances are on? Maybe we should initiate the caste system of India and imprint different colored dots on our foreheads? We would all know the most spiritual color and the least spiritual color, and we would then easily be able to associate only with those who are on our level.

I guess on the forum, since we cannot see each other, we'd have to be on the honor system...

Well; when people ask and complain about fbch folks not discipling converts I guess we now know the reason.

 

[brainisengaged]

bgwilkinson said:
Recently at a major meeting of employees pastor W suggested that there were several people who had been slow to catch on with the new direction and that they might feel led to go elsewhere.

BG Wilkinson, what IS the new direction, exactly? If anyone were to ask me, I'd be hard pressed to define...would like to hear what you have to say.

 

[bgwilkinson]

bgwilkinson said:
Recently at a major meeting of employees pastor W suggested that there were several people who had been slow to catch on with the new direction and that they might feel led to go elsewhere.

BG Wilkinson, what IS the new direction, exactly? If anyone were to ask me, I'd be hard pressed to define...would like to hear what you have to say.

Sunday night we heard a speaker that is still frozen in the old way.

Here is one indicator that I have mentioned before.

Our 2 former pastors represented what many call man-O-God-ism.

They would tell you that they are the man of God and speak in the place of God. They are the go betweens that get their message from God and then deliver it to the sheep. You always must do what the man of God says to be right with God.

Typical of this is when Bro. Hyles would tell us to close our Bibles as we would not be needing them for the rest of the sermon. That was mainly because what was to come next did not come from the Bible but from the pastor's own imaginations and philosophies. If we tried to find it in the Bible we would realize that what we were being told did not in any way come from God. Schaap was a master at this too.

If you notice the pastor's chair is no longer sacred as it was with the last two. A point has been made to make that chair function as any other chair on the stage. The "chair" or "throne" comes right out of the Catholic Church, and is where the priest sits. I'll not belabor the point with pictures of them. As Baptists we believe all Christians are priests not just one person. And that God speaks to all believers and not just to the pastor.

There is no talk of "my pulpit" or "my rug".

The new direction is to point people to Christ and not to the pastor. Pastor pointing was widely practiced  in Bro. Hyles day.

A dependance upon the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to change lives and not dynamic theatrical preaching as in the past and sometimes still used by current speakers trapped in the old fleshly way of pride.

"The altar is filled, look how many people I preached down the isle", "I must be doing a good job".

There are many more indications of the new direction, but that's a start.

 

[qwerty]

Posted by: qwerty
Was this "teacher" a person from the former administration?

No, not a former administrator. A former pastor who has moved back.

A current administrator spoke last night...were you there? Pastor is in China, so EL got to preach on his favorite hobby horse: obey your authorities. It will go very wrong with you if you do not obey and submit to your authorities. (completely paraphrased, but that was the point). Then DD got up after he preached, ostensibly to make announcements, but had to add his mini-sermon of, "Everything he just said was exactly right and you'd better listen."

But that's another story entirely! I just hijacked my own thread...

I have not been there to attend a service in some time.  I have many dear friends and family that still attend though but did not hear of this till now. 

I have a serious problem with Lapina speaking, and even more with those who allow him to speak.  That is a guy that has no right in any way, shape, or form to be addressing the folks at FBCH.  He was the Financial Pastor (I believe that was his title), he has his hand on the pulse of the money going in and out of the ministry. Just put aside the fact he lied to the entire congregation when he was covering for Schaap, he should have realized that there was a problem with the math, with the debt, with what was going on behind the scenes of the very church he grew up in.  His lineage at FBCH is greater that Schaap's, he is one of their own, he could have resolved this mess early on and chose not to.  I believe that he was probably more well respected of the deacons than Schaap was, I can not understand why he would not have taken the proactive stance to protect the ministry, the people, and the Lord they represent. 

I believe that Bro. Wilkerson is the right man to get things back on track.  I have met him many times and he is gracious, humble, approachable...all the things that you could never find in JS; but when I hear of him turning the church congregation over to EL, it makes me concerned.

 

[brainisengaged]

qwerty said:
I believe that Bro. Wilkerson is the right man to get things back on track.  I have met him many times and he is gracious, humble, approachable...all the things that you could never find in JS; but when I hear of him turning the church congregation over to EL, it makes me concerned.

I agree, qwerty, with your last statement. In fact I was being a little disingenuous in my question to bgwilkinson, when I asked what is the 'new direction' of the church. When I keep getting trite Sunday School lessons that have no impact whatsoever, when I see the same men up on the platform and hear their same abrasive tone whenever they get their crack at the microphone...things don't seem as if they are all that different.

"Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose." (The more things change, the more they stay the same)

But yes we do now have a pastor who is truly humble and who does not want his position artificially elevated. Very refreshing, and as it should be.

I don't know who these staff members are, bgwilkinson, that don't 'go along with the new direction'. Or perhaps I should more properly say, I don't know if they know who they are...?

 

[16KJV11]

Let's look at this from an opposite direction.  The teacher said in effect..."separate from the less spiritual". 
Ok, we all know a lot of unspiritual (who think they are spiritual) pharisees and hypocrites.  We have no problem 'separating from their fellowship b/c we can't stand to be around them and we don't want to be like them.
We have no problem pointing them out, identifying them, castigating them, and separating from them.  That's one of the main reasons for the mass exodus from FBC and IFB'dom.  This exodus is the result of our desire to 'separate from the less spiritual' crowd than we are.  So, you end up practicing a type of 'reverse separation.'  To be honest, I see problems on both ends of the spectrum.  There are people who dot every fundamental I and cross every fundamental T that I cannot stand.
And there are those who claim to be saved that are no different at all from the world.
I choose to be friendly to all, but I am careful as to whom I allow to be influences in my life.
I want to be Christlike to all, but I don't spend large amounts of time with people who have habits that I don't believe enhance my walk with God or my children's walk with God.

 

[bgwilkinson]

qwerty said:
I believe that Bro. Wilkerson is the right man to get things back on track.  I have met him many times and he is gracious, humble, approachable...all the things that you could never find in JS; but when I hear of him turning the church congregation over to EL, it makes me concerned.

I agree, qwerty, with your last statement. In fact I was being a little disingenuous in my question to bgwilkinson, when I asked what is the 'new direction' of the church. When I keep getting trite Sunday School lessons that have no impact whatsoever, when I see the same men up on the platform and hear their same abrasive tone whenever they get their crack at the microphone...things don't seem as if they are all that different.

"Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose." (The more things change, the more they stay the same)

But yes we do now have a pastor who is truly humble and who does not want his position artificially elevated. Very refreshing, and as it should be.

I don't know who these staff members are, bgwilkinson, that don't 'go along with the new direction'. Or perhaps I should more properly say, I don't know if they know who they are...?

Many of those are not fully aware that they may be the ones to whom he was addressing his commentary.

These people have been so thoroughly immersed in the prideful Man-O-God-ism of our former two pastors.

It will probably take years for them to realize it.

Pastor W has said it will take 10 years to overcome the weights that were loaded on the people by the last two pastors.

One thing to watch is how pastor W leads the singing. He does not wave his arms wildly at the people all the time, he starts it and just directs occasionally to keep it together. He has been trying to teach song leading by demonstrating how he wants it done. He is a leader not a driver. It will take time and he is very patient.

The current song leader just does not get it.

 

[brainisengaged]

bgwilkinson said: Pastor W has said it will take 10 years to overcome the weights that were loaded on the people by the last two pastors.

You see, it is a statement like this that would REALLY, REALLY help someone like me. But things like this are never said out loud to the general congregation. I mean, in a small way I can understand -- there are new converts in the congregation who have no idea the scandal the church has gone through and the dangerous mindset that crushed it for so many years...

And being 'older', both literally and spiritually, I know the focus is not on me. It is on the younger kids, and the newer converts.

But to know that pastor acknowledges things like this, how are you privy to that information? Where does he say things like this? Don't tell me he said it at church to the congregation because I'll be embarrassed that I did not hear it...

And yes, the constant cajoling that we get from the current (very nice man) song leader is -- now that you mention it -- irksome. It's not a pep rally, people. Spirit comes from within, it is not forced upon.

 

[brainisengaged]

Let's look at this from an opposite direction.  The teacher said in effect..."separate from the less spiritual". 
Ok, we all know a lot of unspiritual (who think they are spiritual) pharisees and hypocrites.  We have no problem 'separating from their fellowship b/c we can't stand to be around them and we don't want to be like them.
We have no problem pointing them out, identifying them, castigating them, and separating from them.  That's one of the main reasons for the mass exodus from FBC and IFB'dom.  This exodus is the result of our desire to 'separate from the less spiritual' crowd than we are.  So, you end up practicing a type of 'reverse separation.'  To be honest, I see problems on both ends of the spectrum.  There are people who dot every fundamental I and cross every fundamental T that I cannot stand.
And there are those who claim to be saved that are no different at all from the world.
I choose to be friendly to all, but I am careful as to whom I allow to be influences in my life.
I want to be Christlike to all, but I don't spend large amounts of time with people who have habits that I don't believe enhance my walk with God or my children's walk with God.

Well said, and yes, all quite sensible and true.

And, water does seek its own level...so in the end I think we choose people whose spiritual, economic, social outlooks mesh with our own.

 

[bgwilkinson]

bgwilkinson said: Pastor W has said it will take 10 years to overcome the weights that were loaded on the people by the last two pastors.

You see, it is a statement like this that would REALLY, REALLY help someone like me. But things like this are never said out loud to the general congregation. I mean, in a small way I can understand -- there are new converts in the congregation who have no idea the scandal the church has gone through and the dangerous mindset that crushed it for so many years...

And being 'older', both literally and spiritually, I know the focus is not on me. It is on the younger kids, and the newer converts.

But to know that pastor acknowledges things like this, how are you privy to that information? Where does he say things like this? Don't tell me he said it at church to the congregation because I'll be embarrassed that I did not hear it...

And yes, the constant cajoling that we get from the current (very nice man) song leader is -- now that you mention it -- irksome. It's not a pep rally, people. Spirit comes from within, it is not forced upon.

This information is provided in smaller meetings with select ministry leaders who are well aware of the problems that must be carefully addressed if we are ever to get to the place where we are a Christ honoring congregation..

As far as I know it has not been stated in larger general type meetings.

He has to move slowly as the spiritual cancer is so deep and entwined in all areas of the ministry, it is especially bad at the college. He did not have anything to do with the selection of the current leaders who are most at fault for the push back to maintain Prideful Man-O-God-ism. Some of them have been here for decades and may not want to leave as they are close to retirement.

Keep your eyes on the college to see if the leadership can be converted, otherwise they may be called back to pastor a church.

He may not be able to save the college as it is loaded with trained seals.

 

[IFB X-Files]

He may not be able to save the college as it is loaded with trained seals.

Boy, did I ever have some of those!