So Bravo and others who were/are at FBCH........

[Still There]

A couple of things that members are starting to not like is he's gone a lot.  I thought Schaap was gone a lot, but he's got him beat.  These last several days he's been in the Phillipines.  It's great to work with missionaries, but you need to work on your home church first.  That's what you came here for and you have an awful lot of work to do.  Secondly, he doesn't counsel.  He fends them off to people like Dave Douglass and others.  We tried that and it failed miserably.  Work on your home church and people first before you start going into other fields. You're losing your people because your presence isn't there. 

 

[prophet]

A couple of things that members are starting to not like is he's gone a lot.  I thought Schaap was gone a lot, but he's got him beat.  These last several days he's been in the Phillipines.  It's great to work with missionaries, but you need to work on your home church first.  That's what you came here for and you have an awful lot of work to do.  Secondly, he doesn't counsel.  He fends them off to people like Dave Douglass and others.  We tried that and it failed miserably.  Work on your home church and people first before you start going into other fields. You're losing your people because your presence isn't there.

Honestly, there is only one person, in that whole congregation, who can feed sheep?  And he isn't from there?

Reminds me of the Chapel Pastors meeting, where men were trying to come up with a set of rules to go by, to "get their chapel people to the man of god, cuz they need to be there".
I asked them all, " why, then, if they need Schaap, did the church send you?"

Crazy!

 

[Bravo]

A couple of things that members are starting to not like is he's gone a lot.  I thought Schaap was gone a lot, but he's got him beat.  These last several days he's been in the Phillipines.  It's great to work with missionaries, but you need to work on your home church first.  That's what you came here for and you have an awful lot of work to do.  Secondly, he doesn't counsel.  He fends them off to people like Dave Douglass and others.  We tried that and it failed miserably.  Work on your home church and people first before you start going into other fields. You're losing your people because your presence isn't there.

Yes the being gone a lot has been noticed. Maybe that's how he's paying his kid's school bill?

The whole counseling thing?
For years it was pushed to see the "man of God" for counsel, or if you were catholic, the priest lol. We should hopefully be growing our people into autonomous adults that have a relationship with God and can after a while aquire some wisdom. What does that say about the membership if they can't work out some things on their own? I recently read that "Leaders make leaders, not followers", somewhere we should be picking up on some of that ability.

 

[Matthew1323]

Bravo, well said.

It is so 'odd' that it IS odd to me...walking in the hall and just seeing Pastor or Mrs. Wilkerson without an encasement of security detail surrounding them, 'protecting' them by keeping us riffraff away.

Lots of things like that. Things that at ANY OTHER CHURCH would just be normal everyday occurrences but to us, seem to usher in a new era.

To answer the OP's question: I think the Dave Hyles stories are irrefutable. I think they are true. I don't think, although I was not there, that they are stories made up in order to ruin his reputation. That alone has been enough to change my views of Jack Hyles. The way he handled it. Coverups, sending a very damaged man to pastor another unsuspecting church. Absolutely immoral and unforgiveable. That right there shows that people -- good honest caring unsuspecting people -- were NEVER his true care. His true care was empire building and reputation protecting and damage control at the expense of anyone who got in the way.

I cannot handle listening to old sermons of Jack Hyles any longer. They play them on the church's radio station and I listen for a bit but have to turn them off. So very little Bible was ever expounded upon. We simply settled in each service for a grand roller coaster ride on the Great Jack Hyles Personality Train. ("Give the people what they want")

Excellent post!

 

[Matthew1323]

The whole counseling thing?

For years it was pushed to see the "man of God" for counsel, or if you were catholic, the priest lol. We should hopefully be growing our people into autonomous adults that have a relationship with God and can after a while aquire some wisdom. What does that say about the membership if they can't work out some things on their own? I recently read that "Leaders make leaders, not followers", somewhere we should be picking up on some of that ability.

Exactly!

 

[RAIDER]

I am interested in your thought pattern change in the past few years.  I know it has been much more difficult for you than for those of us who have been gone from FBCH for many years.  I believe most of us hurt over what has happened.  I'm sure your hurt is much deeper.

We all watched Schaap quickly go down hill.  Most of the FFF posters who were still attending FBCH had issues with Schaap while he was pastoring.  You saw many of the problems first hand.  I doubt anyone thought It would end the way it did.

Bravo, in several of your posts you have referenced that you now have different feelings about Dr. Hyles and his ministry.  You have also referenced some of the deacons now talking about things during Dr. Hyles time period. 

Here is my question to you and others who are still at FBCH or others who have left FBCH since 2010.  What have you heard that has changed you view of the Hyles' years? 

To be honest I am struggling with what to say in response to this. I was looking forward to answering but right now it's not easy. I just spent a half hour typing and felt I could not submit my answer.

Bravo, I am not asking for names of those to whom you have spoken.  I am wondering what information you might have received that would make you change your mind on Dr. Hyles' ministry.  Having known you on the FFF for the past few years, the answer to this question very much interests me.

 

[Still There]

A couple of things that members are starting to not like is he's gone a lot.  I thought Schaap was gone a lot, but he's got him beat.  These last several days he's been in the Phillipines.  It's great to work with missionaries, but you need to work on your home church first.  That's what you came here for and you have an awful lot of work to do.  Secondly, he doesn't counsel.  He fends them off to people like Dave Douglass and others.  We tried that and it failed miserably.  Work on your home church and people first before you start going into other fields. You're losing your people because your presence isn't there.

When we were having teenage problems several years ago when Bro. Hyles was sick, we went to Tom Vogel.  He had no time for us - his exact words.  Well, then we went to EL.  That was the worse decision we ever made.  After that my husband I and finally decided it was up to us to help our teenager.  We knew no on from FBC was going to help us.  After we made our decision, assistant pastors were coming out of the wood work to help us because they found out what we did and told us it was the wrong decision.  Well, EL did.  I looked at him pointed my finger at him and took my very big mouth at and him and told him 3 weeks ago you wanted nothing to do with us, you told us you couldn't help us because it was way beyond your realm of help.  Now you want to help me after the fact???  I told him he knows where he could stick it and I walked away.  EL just stood there.  After that I've never spoke to him.  This is why I won'd counsel with anyone from the church.  Oh, BTW, my daughter is doing quite well. 

Yes the being gone a lot has been noticed. Maybe that's how he's paying his kid's school bill?

The whole counseling thing?
For years it was pushed to see the "man of God" for counsel, or if you were catholic, the priest lol. We should hopefully be growing our people into autonomous adults that have a relationship with God and can after a while aquire some wisdom. What does that say about the membership if they can't work out some things on their own? I recently read that "Leaders make leaders, not followers", somewhere we should be picking up on some of that ability.

 

[Josh R]

  If you're Wilkerson do you risk rocking the boat by getting rid of some of the old staff? The sycophants are still there, you get the sense they would make him king by force so to speak. 

I realize I may be rambling,...

BUSINESSES worry about "rocking the boat", churches don't (shouldn't, rather).

 

[Bravo]

Bravo, I am not asking for names of those to whom you have spoken.  I am wondering what information you might have received that would make you change your mind on Dr. Hyles' ministry.  Having known you on the FFF for the past few years, the answer to this question very much interests me.

Raider, if you're asking for a specific watershed moment there isn't one. And really the key word is "one". A quote you may remember is, "big things are an accumulation of little things". So no one thing. But in these last couple years the things heard, seen, said have begun to add up a lot. I think really Hyles was pretty much in the clear. Then the recent events with Schaap caused many here to look beyond just the last 10 years, to look to the last 30 years. This reopening the memories and events of our previous pastor. In hind sight the questions began to resurface. A comment made by Mrs Hyles years after Bro Hyles death, comments from deacons, from members who grew up here combined with what we saw and knew. Each source providing another facet to what we believed. So I don't know if I can provide THE ANSWER you're looking for this is a key to the process many are going through.

 

[Tennessean]

Bravo, I am not asking for names of those to whom you have spoken.  I am wondering what information you might have received that would make you change your mind on Dr. Hyles' ministry.  Having known you on the FFF for the past few years, the answer to this question very much interests me.

Raider, if you're asking for a specific watershed moment there isn't one. And really the key word is "one". A quote you may remember is, "big things are an accumulation of little things". So no one thing. But in these last couple years the things heard, seen, said have begun to add up a lot. I think really Hyles was pretty much in the clear. Then the recent events with Schaap caused many here to look beyond just the last 10 years, to look to the last 30 years. This reopening the memories and events of our previous pastor. In hind sight the questions began to resurface. A comment made by Mrs Hyles years after Bro Hyles death, comments from deacons, from members who grew up here combined with what we saw and knew. Each source providing another facet to what we believed. So I don't know if I can provide THE ANSWER you're looking for this is a key to the process many are going through.

What was the quote made by Mrs. Hyles and what were some of the deacons quotee? Just asking never heard this before.

 

[Bravo]

I really don't want to go into private conversations and quotes really.

I'll clarify this much, Mrs Hyles did not say Her husband did anything she just made a comment about him. Nothing horrible, just a comment that really any of our wives could've made about us. At the time it wasn't a big deal by itself but we were a little surprised she made it. It was a one time talk we had. Again not a watershed moment, just something she said in passing,... A piece of the puzzle I guess.

 

[RAIDER]

I really don't want to go into private conversations and quotes really.

I'll clarify this much, Mrs Hyles did not say Her husband did anything she just made a comment about him. Nothing horrible, just a comment that really any of our wives could've made about us. At the time it wasn't a big deal by itself but we were a little surprised she made it. It was a one time talk we had. Again not a watershed moment, just something she said in passing,... A piece of the puzzle I guess.

Bravo, thanks for your posts on this thread.  I respect your decision not to post statements made that have changed your view on the Dr. Hyles' years.  I had noticed a change and thought maybe you would want to elaborate. 

I will have to say that there are many people that have done the same thing in the past.  They have something that they feel is a "smoking gun" type of information but they never let it be known. 

 

[qwerty]

I really don't want to go into private conversations and quotes really.

I'll clarify this much, Mrs Hyles did not say Her husband did anything she just made a comment about him. Nothing horrible, just a comment that really any of our wives could've made about us. At the time it wasn't a big deal by itself but we were a little surprised she made it. It was a one time talk we had. Again not a watershed moment, just something she said in passing,... A piece of the puzzle I guess.

Bravo, thanks for your posts on this thread.  I respect your decision not to post statements made that have changed your view on the Dr. Hyles' years.  I had noticed a change and thought maybe you would want to elaborate. 

I will have to say that there are many people that have done the same thing in the past.  They have something that they feel is a "smoking gun" type of information but they never let it be known.

Quick question Bravo.... Do you remember Bro Schaap telling the "Mantle" story while Mrs. Hyles was still there, or did or not make it's appearance until after she left?

You know where I'm going with this, and I think I brought it up on the old forum. I just do not recall him ever mentioning it with her present.

 

[Bravo]

Raider, to be clear it was not any ONE thing. Just a culmination of multiple things. So on that sense I don't want to go into so and so said,...  I did clarify on Mrs Hyles because I want o be clear it was a one time conversation not a close friendship.

QWERTY, at this point the chronology escapes me. So much of that history begins to blur,... Up until his recent events of that makes sense. I know we heard it many times but when it started I just don't recall.

 

[RAIDER]

Raider, to be clear it was not any ONE thing. Just a culmination of multiple things. So on that sense I don't want to go into so and so said,...  I did clarify on Mrs Hyles because I want o be clear it was a one time conversation not a close friendship.

Can you not give the facts without mentioning the names?

 

[Bravo]

Raider, to be clear it was not any ONE thing. Just a culmination of multiple things. So on that sense I don't want to go into so and so said,...  I did clarify on Mrs Hyles because I want o be clear it was a one time conversation not a close friendship.

Can you not give the facts without mentioning the names?

I thought I said this earlier. Maybe in another thread? When this most recent event happened I was told that some older deacons said, "We will not cover up for another one." Granted that leaves open a myriad of possible subjects but it is another piece of the puzzle. The rest is just more pieces here and there.

 

[RAIDER]

I thought I said this earlier. Maybe in another thread? When this most recent event happened I was told that some older deacons said, "We will not cover up for another one." Granted that leaves open a myriad of possible subjects but it is another piece of the puzzle. The rest is just more pieces here and there.

Oh, ok, I guess I read more into things than I should have.  I thought an older deacon as well as some others had told you some specific information about Dr. Hyles that had made you view things differently.

 

[WESLEY]

I really don't want to go into private conversations and quotes really.

I'll clarify this much, Mrs Hyles did not say Her husband did anything she just made a comment about him. Nothing horrible, just a comment that really any of our wives could've made about us. At the time it wasn't a big deal by itself but we were a little surprised she made it. It was a one time talk we had. Again not a watershed moment, just something she said in passing,... A piece of the puzzle I guess.

Bravo, thanks for your posts on this thread.  I respect your decision not to post statements made that have changed your view on the Dr. Hyles' years.  I had noticed a change and thought maybe you would want to elaborate. 

I will have to say that there are many people that have done the same thing in the past.  They have something that they feel is a "smoking gun" type of information but they never let it be known.

Quick question Bravo.... Do you remember Bro Schaap telling the "Mantle" story while Mrs. Hyles was still there, or did or not make it's appearance until after she left?

You know where I'm going with this, and I think I brought it up on the old forum. I just do not recall him ever mentioning it with her present.

Just to be 100% fair... JS started telling the story of "taking Dr. Hyles hand on his death bed" during the first Pastor's School...  I think Mrs. Hyles was in Hammond for at least a year after his passing

 

[Timotheus]

I don't believe there is going to be a smoking gun (or briefcase full of pictures like DH) from the Jack Hyles years.

A couple of things that added up for me.

1.  A friend who is a pk, telling me a couple of years ago about listening in the next room as Evangelist Tom Williams was on the phone talking Mrs. Hyles out of leaving Jack Hyles.  (Tom Williams was speaking in her church and was calling from her dad's office.  This happened in 1986.)

2.  Having a teacher at HB (that grew up with Linda Hyles and was many times in the Hyles house) tell me in the mid '90s that the rumors about the Hyles marriage was true.  (at the time I did not even know what the rumors were, so it made no impact on me then)

3.  A family member who worked for Jack Schaap in the first few years of his pastorate telling me how angry Jack Schaap was with Jack Hyles behind closed doors. 

The rest involved reading Voyle Glover's book with the Paula interview, and the audio from another person talking to Paula.  After that Linda's Tedx video added up (in spite of her saying JH owned downtown Hammond)

 

[BALAAM]

I don't believe there is going to be a smoking gun (or briefcase full of pictures like DH) from the Jack Hyles years.

A couple of things that added up for me.

1.  A friend who is a pk, telling me a couple of years ago about listening in the next room as Evangelist Tom Williams was on the phone talking Mrs. Hyles out of leaving Jack Hyles.  (Tom Williams was speaking in her church and was calling from her dad's office.  This happened in 1986.)

2.  Having a teacher at HB (that grew up with Linda Hyles and was many times in the Hyles house) tell me in the mid '90s that the rumors about the Hyles marriage was true.  (at the time I did not even know what the rumors were, so it made no impact on me then)

3.  A family member who worked for Jack Schaap in the first few years of his pastorate telling me how angry Jack Schaap was with Jack Hyles behind closed doors. 

The rest involved reading Voyle Glover's book with the Paula interview, and the audio from another person talking to Paula.  After that Linda's Tedx video added up (in spite of her saying JH owned downtown Hammond)

Don't know whether or not any of this is true, but I do know the following:
I heard Beverly Hyles say that her husband was the best christian that she knew.
She has never came out and said anything bad about jack.
Who in he-- cares what jack schaap thinks or says about anyone?? He is a wacko, pervert, reprobate, wack-job!