So Bravo and others who were/are at FBCH........

brainisengaged said:
Bravo, well said.

It is so 'odd' that it IS odd to me...walking in the hall and just seeing Pastor or Mrs. Wilkerson without an encasement of security detail surrounding them, 'protecting' them by keeping us riffraff away.

Lots of things like that. Things that at ANY OTHER CHURCH would just be normal everyday occurrences but to us, seem to usher in a new era.

To answer the OP's question: I think the Dave Hyles stories are irrefutable. I think they are true. I don't think, although I was not there, that they are stories made up in order to ruin his reputation. That alone has been enough to change my views of Jack Hyles. The way he handled it. Coverups, sending a very damaged man to pastor another unsuspecting church. Absolutely immoral and unforgiveable. That right there shows that people -- good honest caring unsuspecting people -- were NEVER his true care. His true care was empire building and reputation protecting and damage control at the expense of anyone who got in the way.

I cannot handle listening to old sermons of Jack Hyles any longer. They play them on the church's radio station and I listen for a bit but have to turn them off. So very little Bible was ever expounded upon. We simply settled in each service for a grand roller coaster ride on the Great Jack Hyles Personality Train. ("Give the people what they want")
Click to expand...

Yes you are correct.
No one in my family can listen to the sermons when they come on the radio, they just change the station.
Typically the only Bible you would get is what Johnny Colsten read, now it is the exact opposite, Most of the Bible teaching comes from Pastor Wilkerson, the jokes and silliness we used to get now comes from Bro. Colsten.

How refreshing.
 
Thank you Still There and Brain Is Engaged. "The Personality Train" sums it up well doesn't it? Even coming into the old church felt like a happening. Dr Hyles had personality, charisma and a story telling ability that was second to none. We sat there and ate it up even though we may not have always agreed.

The question now is can we follow the still small voice of the Holy Spirit under a new preacher or do we long for a "Cult of Personality"?
 
Bravo said:
Thank you Still There and Brain Is Engaged. "The Personality Train" sums it up well doesn't it? Even coming into the old church felt like a happening. Dr Hyles had personality, charisma and a story telling ability that was second to none. We say there and ate it up even though we may have always agreed.

The question now is can we follow the still small voice of the Holy Spirit under a new preacher or do we long for a "Cult of Personality"?
Click to expand...

Well, that is a good question, Bravo. In my case, neither is the answer. I certainly never again wish to be blinded by personality and think I have acquired the requisite ability to refrain from that temptation. What I cannot currently discern is whether the fact I do not at all detect the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit at FBC is my own problem or the church's problem. I suspect, since a church is a community of individuals, it is both my problem and the church's problem, collectively speaking.

I have heard a few others state they do not detect the presence of the Holy Spirit at FBC. What think you? If the Holy Spirit is not with us...it is really all just a pretense, a 'going through the motions' type activity.

This is why I have craved a true revival, not the ridiculous half-baked attempts they perpetrated. In my mind, a true revival is one in which the Holy Spirit comes through and removes the scales from our eyes and hearts. There is not a one of us who can stand before the Holy Spirit of God, and there is not a one of us that wouldn't be changed completely by a brutally honest encounter with the Holy Spirit.

The power that I suspect the Holy Spirit to have has never been in evidence to me as working in and through our body of believers. I think it needs to be a collective thing that we experience as a church body. I believe true revival would rip all the old wounds open, cauterize them, heal them, cause each person to see exactly where they stand in relation to God, self, and others...to right whatever needs to be made right, to repent of whatever needs repenting of...to lay it all on the table, no holds barred. After that incredible catharsis...this church, this body of believers could really be united and healed and ready for whatever God might have in store for us next.



 
brainisengaged said:
Bravo said:
Thank you Still There and Brain Is Engaged. "The Personality Train" sums it up well doesn't it? Even coming into the old church felt like a happening. Dr Hyles had personality, charisma and a story telling ability that was second to none. We say there and ate it up even though we may have always agreed.

The question now is can we follow the still small voice of the Holy Spirit under a new preacher or do we long for a "Cult of Personality"?
Click to expand...

Well, that is a good question, Bravo. In my case, neither is the answer. I certainly never again wish to be blinded by personality and think I have acquired the requisite ability to refrain from that temptation. What I cannot currently discern is whether the fact I do not at all detect the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit at FBC is my own problem or the church's problem. I suspect, since a church is a community of individuals, it is both my problem and the church's problem, collectively speaking.

I have heard a few others state they do not detect the presence of the Holy Spirit at FBC. What think you? If the Holy Spirit is not with us...it is really all just a pretense, a 'going through the motions' type activity.

This is why I have craved a true revival, not the ridiculous half-baked attemptsthey perpetrated. In my mind, a true revival is one in which the Holy Spirit comes through and removes the scales from our eyes and hearts.
Click to expand...

And to answer your questions,... I just don't know? :-\
 
Bravo said:
brainisengaged said:
Bravo said:
Thank you Still There and Brain Is Engaged. "The Personality Train" sums it up well doesn't it? Even coming into the old church felt like a happening. Dr Hyles had personality, charisma and a story telling ability that was second to none. We say there and ate it up even though we may have always agreed.

The question now is can we follow the still small voice of the Holy Spirit under a new preacher or do we long for a "Cult of Personality"?
Click to expand...

Well, that is a good question, Bravo. In my case, neither is the answer. I certainly never again wish to be blinded by personality and think I have acquired the requisite ability to refrain from that temptation. What I cannot currently discern is whether the fact I do not at all detect the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit at FBC is my own problem or the church's problem. I suspect, since a church is a community of individuals, it is both my problem and the church's problem, collectively speaking.

I have heard a few others state they do not detect the presence of the Holy Spirit at FBC. What think you? If the Holy Spirit is not with us...it is really all just a pretense, a 'going through the motions' type activity.

This is why I have craved a true revival, not the ridiculous half-baked attemptsthey perpetrated. In my mind, a true revival is one in which the Holy Spirit comes through and removes the scales from our eyes and hearts.
Click to expand...

And to answer your questions,... I just don't know? :-\
Click to expand...

Same answer for me Bravo - I just don't know.  I just don't know.
 
brainisengaged said:
The power that I suspect the Holy Spirit to have has never been in evidence to me as working in and through our body of believers. I think it needs to be a collective thing that we experience as a church body. I believe true revival would rip all the old wounds open, cauterize them, heal them, cause each person to see exactly where they stand in relation to God, self, and others...to right whatever needs to be made right, to repent of whatever needs repenting of...to lay it all on the table, no holds barred. After that incredible catharsis...this church, this body of believers could really be united and healed and ready for whatever God might have in store for us next.
Click to expand...

Amen
 
Good thread.....in that after long last some FBCH folks are peeking & wandering outside The Box & thinking for yourselves, asking questions & asking for advice from others.

Interesting words are used by Jesus about what will occur when the Holy Spirit shows up in Luke 4:18 including: "to set at liberty them that are bruised."
 
Bravo said:
Thank you Still There and Brain Is Engaged. "The Personality Train" sums it up well doesn't it? Even coming into the old church felt like a happening. Dr Hyles had personality, charisma and a story telling ability that was second to none. We sat there and ate it up even though we may not have always agreed.

The question now is can we follow the still small voice of the Holy Spirit under a new preacher or do we long for a "Cult of Personality"?
Click to expand...
The words "under a ...preacher", are disturbing, and give you your answer.

1Ti 5:21
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
 
prophet said:
Bravo said:
Thank you Still There and Brain Is Engaged. "The Personality Train" sums it up well doesn't it? Even coming into the old church felt like a happening. Dr Hyles had personality, charisma and a story telling ability that was second to none. We sat there and ate it up even though we may not have always agreed.

The question now is can we follow the still small voice of the Holy Spirit under a new preacher or do we long for a "Cult of Personality"?
Click to expand...
The words "under a ...preacher", are disturbing, and give you your answer.

1Ti 5:21
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
Click to expand...

It was more of a figure of speech. He preaches, we sit "under his preaching". But you bring up a valid point that I think we agree on.
 
brainisengaged said:
Bravo said:
Thank you Still There and Brain Is Engaged. "The Personality Train" sums it up well doesn't it? Even coming into the old church felt like a happening. Dr Hyles had personality, charisma and a story telling ability that was second to none. We say there and ate it up even though we may have always agreed.

The question now is can we follow the still small voice of the Holy Spirit under a new preacher or do we long for a "Cult of Personality"?
Click to expand...

Well, that is a good question, Bravo. In my case, neither is the answer. I certainly never again wish to be blinded by personality and think I have acquired the requisite ability to refrain from that temptation. What I cannot currently discern is whether the fact I do not at all detect the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit at FBC is my own problem or the church's problem. I suspect, since a church is a community of individuals, it is both my problem and the church's problem, collectively speaking.

I have heard a few others state they do not detect the presence of the Holy Spirit at FBC. What think you? If the Holy Spirit is not with us...it is really all just a pretense, a 'going through the motions' type activity.

This is why I have craved a true revival, not the ridiculous half-baked attempts they perpetrated. In my mind, a true revival is one in which the Holy Spirit comes through and removes the scales from our eyes and hearts. There is not a one of us who can stand before the Holy Spirit of God, and there is not a one of us that wouldn't be changed completely by a brutally honest encounter with the Holy Spirit.

The power that I suspect the Holy Spirit to have has never been in evidence to me as working in and through our body of believers. I think it needs to be a collective thing that we experience as a church body. I believe true revival would rip all the old wounds open, cauterize them, heal them, cause each person to see exactly where they stand in relation to God, self, and others...to right whatever needs to be made right, to repent of whatever needs repenting of...to lay it all on the table, no holds barred. After that incredible catharsis...this church, this body of believers could really be united and healed and ready for whatever God might have in store for us next.
Click to expand...

^^^^This - in every Christian.
 
brainisengaged said:
Bravo said:
Thank you Still There and Brain Is Engaged. "The Personality Train" sums it up well doesn't it? Even coming into the old church felt like a happening. Dr Hyles had personality, charisma and a story telling ability that was second to none. We say there and ate it up even though we may have always agreed.

The question now is can we follow the still small voice of the Holy Spirit under a new preacher or do we long for a "Cult of Personality"?
Click to expand...

Well, that is a good question, Bravo. In my case, neither is the answer. I certainly never again wish to be blinded by personality and think I have acquired the requisite ability to refrain from that temptation. What I cannot currently discern is whether the fact I do not at all detect the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit at FBC is my own problem or the church's problem. I suspect, since a church is a community of individuals, it is both my problem and the church's problem, collectively speaking.

I have heard a few others state they do not detect the presence of the Holy Spirit at FBC. What think you? If the Holy Spirit is not with us...it is really all just a pretense, a 'going through the motions' type activity.

This is why I have craved a true revival, not the ridiculous half-baked attempts they perpetrated. In my mind, a true revival is one in which the Holy Spirit comes through and removes the scales from our eyes and hearts. There is not a one of us who can stand before the Holy Spirit of God, and there is not a one of us that wouldn't be changed completely by a brutally honest encounter with the Holy Spirit.

The power that I suspect the Holy Spirit to have has never been in evidence to me as working in and through our body of believers. I think it needs to be a collective thing that we experience as a church body. I believe true revival would rip all the old wounds open, cauterize them, heal them, cause each person to see exactly where they stand in relation to God, self, and others...to right whatever needs to be made right, to repent of whatever needs repenting of...to lay it all on the table, no holds barred. After that incredible catharsis...this church, this body of believers could really be united and healed and ready for whatever God might have in store for us next.
Click to expand...

Kind of like this then?

http://youtu.be/GcWZIvdHoYA
 
(first post in forever; I like to read everyone else's comments but many of you are a good decade or two or three ahead of me in life and I don't relate much to what many of you reminisce about. Still in my 20's.. On top of that, I have no strong opinions of my own that I feel need to sprawled out on the web, thus I rarely post but I will post on this thread as it hits close to home for me. )

I'll attempt to keep it concise and to the point...
I grew up at FBC. Many would know my family. I was very involved in my growing up and early adulthood. Around 2010 is when I began to seriously question JS and the "system"... (I think some of you understand by what I mean when I say the "system"). At first, my wife would encourage me to lighten up and try to cut JS a break etc etc. I just knew I was the misbehaving, rebellious-at-heart square peg not submitting myself to the proverbial round hole. I move on... summer of 2012 hits, specifically, late July 2012. Not going to re-hash that. I stayed in the church. The interim period between pastors was horrible for me. Church was a dread for me. There was zero joy. I am certainly willing to own up to any part of that that is my fault. Moving along.. Time came around for pastoral candidating... I voted for Pastor Wilkerson. All during this time, my spirit was optimistic, but weary and beat up. I was tired of being in a church that was seemingly the center of controversy and dragging the name of Christ through the mud. All growing up, I had heard mysterious, veiled rumors of Dave Hyles... I never asked questions though. Same with JH. Never really asked questions though. And now JS. In my heart, I was done. I didn't want this for my children.
I love my kids, and I want them to learn to fight their own battles growing up, so I wasn't just looking for an easy road for them. But I feel that the battles the people at FBC are fighting are misdirected. (I could park here a while). I had been at an intersection in my mind for so long, and I saw no hard evidence that the church was shifting directions any time soon, and thus I made the decision to leave and attend elsewhere. Some would be critical of the choice that I made, but I can only testify that at-present-day, church is a pure delight for me. I have emotional, philosophical, and theological connection. I have found a place I can sink my teeth into and want to contribute. Sinners there? Yep. Depraved humans there? Yep. Hearts that are deceitful above all and desperately wicked there? Yep. But week after week, I find that Christ is magnified and exalted. My heart is overjoyed time and time again. I can't explain it, but that was not happening for me at fbc. Someone earlier mentioned about the presence of the Holy Spirit at FBC... I hope it's there. I want to see fbc succeed. But for the right reasons.

This is by all means an account with gaping holes and somewhat of a ramble, but just a little bit that was on my heart and mind from someone who grew up here, and recently at that.
 
longlivedunkin said:
(first post in forever; I like to read everyone else's comments but many of you are a good decade or two or three ahead of me in life and I don't relate much to what many of you reminisce about. Still in my 20's.. On top of that, I have no strong opinions of my own that I feel need to sprawled out on the web, thus I rarely post but I will post on this thread as it hits close to home for me. )

I'll attempt to keep it concise and to the point...
I grew up at FBC. Many would know my family. I was very involved in my growing up and early adulthood. Around 2010 is when I began to seriously question JS and the "system"... (I think some of you understand by what I mean when I say the "system"). At first, my wife would encourage me to lighten up and try to cut JS a break etc etc. I just knew I was the misbehaving, rebellious-at-heart square peg not submitting myself to the proverbial round hole. I move on... summer of 2012 hits, specifically, late July 2012. Not going to re-hash that. I stayed in the church. The interim period between pastors was horrible for me. Church was a dread for me. There was zero joy. I am certainly willing to own up to any part of that that is my fault. Moving along.. Time came around for pastoral candidating... I voted for Pastor Wilkerson. All during this time, my spirit was optimistic, but weary and beat up. I was tired of being in a church that was seemingly the center of controversy and dragging the name of Christ through the mud. All growing up, I had heard mysterious, veiled rumors of Dave Hyles... I never asked questions though. Same with JH. Never really asked questions though. And now JS. In my heart, I was done. I didn't want this for my children.
I love my kids, and I want them to learn to fight their own battles growing up, so I wasn't just looking for an easy road for them. But I feel that the battles the people at FBC are fighting are misdirected. (I could park here a while). I had been at an intersection in my mind for so long, and I saw no hard evidence that the church was shifting directions any time soon, and thus I made the decision to leave and attend elsewhere. Some would be critical of the choice that I made, but I can only testify that at-present-day, church is a pure delight for me. I have emotional, philosophical, and theological connection. I have found a place I can sink my teeth into and want to contribute. Sinners there? Yep. Depraved humans there? Yep. Hearts that are deceitful above all and desperately wicked there? Yep. But week after week, I find that Christ is magnified and exalted. My heart is overjoyed time and time again. I can't explain it, but that was not happening for me at fbc. Someone earlier mentioned about the presence of the Holy Spirit at FBC... I hope it's there. I want to see fbc succeed. But for the right reasons.

This is by all means an account with gaping holes and somewhat of a ramble, but just a little bit that was on my heart and mind from someone who grew up here, and recently at that.
Click to expand...

Good post.

My wife and I had our moment in 2009.  It was like waking up in a horror movie.  I kept wondering who had shut the lights out at FBC.  It took me a couple of months to figure out that the Holy Spirit had been gone for a long time. 

I don't believe that FBC as a corporate body can be as open, honest, and transparent as necessary for the Holy Spirit (revival) to be present there. 

My prayer is for the individuals who are waking up and seeing the light.
 
longlivedunkin said:
(first post in forever; I like to read everyone else's comments but many of you are a good decade or two or three ahead of me in life and I don't relate much to what many of you reminisce about. Still in my 20's.. On top of that, I have no strong opinions of my own that I feel need to sprawled out on the web, thus I rarely post but I will post on this thread as it hits close to home for me. )

I'll attempt to keep it concise and to the point...
I grew up at FBC. Many would know my family. I was very involved in my growing up and early adulthood. Around 2010 is when I began to seriously question JS and the "system"... (I think some of you understand by what I mean when I say the "system"). At first, my wife would encourage me to lighten up and try to cut JS a break etc etc. I just knew I was the misbehaving, rebellious-at-heart square peg not submitting myself to the proverbial round hole. I move on... summer of 2012 hits, specifically, late July 2012. Not going to re-hash that. I stayed in the church. The interim period between pastors was horrible for me. Church was a dread for me. There was zero joy. I am certainly willing to own up to any part of that that is my fault. Moving along.. Time came around for pastoral candidating... I voted for Pastor Wilkerson. All during this time, my spirit was optimistic, but weary and beat up. I was tired of being in a church that was seemingly the center of controversy and dragging the name of Christ through the mud. All growing up, I had heard mysterious, veiled rumors of Dave Hyles... I never asked questions though. Same with JH. Never really asked questions though. And now JS. In my heart, I was done. I didn't want this for my children.
I love my kids, and I want them to learn to fight their own battles growing up, so I wasn't just looking for an easy road for them. But I feel that the battles the people at FBC are fighting are misdirected. (I could park here a while). I had been at an intersection in my mind for so long, and I saw no hard evidence that the church was shifting directions any time soon, and thus I made the decision to leave and attend elsewhere. Some would be critical of the choice that I made, but I can only testify that at-present-day, church is a pure delight for me. I have emotional, philosophical, and theological connection. I have found a place I can sink my teeth into and want to contribute. Sinners there? Yep. Depraved humans there? Yep. Hearts that are deceitful above all and desperately wicked there? Yep. But week after week, I find that Christ is magnified and exalted. My heart is overjoyed time and time again. I can't explain it, but that was not happening for me at fbc. Someone earlier mentioned about the presence of the Holy Spirit at FBC... I hope it's there. I want to see fbc succeed. But for the right reasons.

This is by all means an account with gaping holes and somewhat of a ramble, but just a little bit that was on my heart and mind from someone who grew up here, and recently at that.
Click to expand...

Good Post! I feel the same about dreading to go to church at fbch.  Went for years and even though I was involved in ministries and taught SS I absolutely looked for any excuse not to go. Now, I can't wait for church. BTW, you probably go to the same church I do.
 
longlivedunkin said:
(first post in forever; I like to read everyone else's comments but many of you are a good decade or two or three ahead of me in life and I don't relate much to what many of you reminisce about. Still in my 20's.. On top of that, I have no strong opinions of my own that I feel need to sprawled out on the web, thus I rarely post but I will post on this thread as it hits close to home for me. )

I'll attempt to keep it concise and to the point...
I grew up at FBC. Many would know my family. I was very involved in my growing up and early adulthood. Around 2010 is when I began to seriously question JS and the "system"... (I think some of you understand by what I mean when I say the "system"). At first, my wife would encourage me to lighten up and try to cut JS a break etc etc. I just knew I was the misbehaving, rebellious-at-heart square peg not submitting myself to the proverbial round hole. I move on... summer of 2012 hits, specifically, late July 2012. Not going to re-hash that. I stayed in the church. The interim period between pastors was horrible for me. Church was a dread for me. There was zero joy. I am certainly willing to own up to any part of that that is my fault. Moving along.. Time came around for pastoral candidating... I voted for Pastor Wilkerson. All during this time, my spirit was optimistic, but weary and beat up. I was tired of being in a church that was seemingly the center of controversy and dragging the name of Christ through the mud. All growing up, I had heard mysterious, veiled rumors of Dave Hyles... I never asked questions though. Same with JH. Never really asked questions though. And now JS. In my heart, I was done. I didn't want this for my children.
I love my kids, and I want them to learn to fight their own battles growing up, so I wasn't just looking for an easy road for them. But I feel that the battles the people at FBC are fighting are misdirected. (I could park here a while). I had been at an intersection in my mind for so long, and I saw no hard evidence that the church was shifting directions any time soon, and thus I made the decision to leave and attend elsewhere. Some would be critical of the choice that I made, but I can only testify that at-present-day, church is a pure delight for me. I have emotional, philosophical, and theological connection. I have found a place I can sink my teeth into and want to contribute. Sinners there? Yep. Depraved humans there? Yep. Hearts that are deceitful above all and desperately wicked there? Yep. But week after week, I find that Christ is magnified and exalted. My heart is overjoyed time and time again. I can't explain it, but that was not happening for me at fbc. Someone earlier mentioned about the presence of the Holy Spirit at FBC... I hope it's there. I want to see fbc succeed. But for the right reasons.

This is by all means an account with gaping holes and somewhat of a ramble, but just a little bit that was on my heart and mind from someone who grew up here, and recently at that.
Click to expand...

Great post! I will prayer more for the people at First Baptist and the struggles they are going through
 
Balaam, you are correct. I have really grown to enjoy it there. I am already looking forward to the next Sunday on Monday morning!
 
longlivedunkin said:
(first post in forever; I like to read everyone else's comments but many of you are a good decade or two or three ahead of me in life and I don't relate much to what many of you reminisce about. Still in my 20's.. On top of that, I have no strong opinions of my own that I feel need to sprawled out on the web, thus I rarely post but I will post on this thread as it hits close to home for me. )

I'll attempt to keep it concise and to the point...
I grew up at FBC. Many would know my family. I was very involved in my growing up and early adulthood. Around 2010 is when I began to seriously question JS and the "system"... (I think some of you understand by what I mean when I say the "system"). At first, my wife would encourage me to lighten up and try to cut JS a break etc etc. I just knew I was the misbehaving, rebellious-at-heart square peg not submitting myself to the proverbial round hole. I move on... summer of 2012 hits, specifically, late July 2012. Not going to re-hash that. I stayed in the church. The interim period between pastors was horrible for me. Church was a dread for me. There was zero joy. I am certainly willing to own up to any part of that that is my fault. Moving along.. Time came around for pastoral candidating... I voted for Pastor Wilkerson. All during this time, my spirit was optimistic, but weary and beat up. I was tired of being in a church that was seemingly the center of controversy and dragging the name of Christ through the mud. All growing up, I had heard mysterious, veiled rumors of Dave Hyles... I never asked questions though. Same with JH. Never really asked questions though. And now JS. In my heart, I was done. I didn't want this for my children.
I love my kids, and I want them to learn to fight their own battles growing up, so I wasn't just looking for an easy road for them. But I feel that the battles the people at FBC are fighting are misdirected. (I could park here a while). I had been at an intersection in my mind for so long, and I saw no hard evidence that the church was shifting directions any time soon, and thus I made the decision to leave and attend elsewhere. Some would be critical of the choice that I made, but I can only testify that at-present-day, church is a pure delight for me. I have emotional, philosophical, and theological connection. I have found a place I can sink my teeth into and want to contribute. Sinners there? Yep. Depraved humans there? Yep. Hearts that are deceitful above all and desperately wicked there? Yep. But week after week, I find that Christ is magnified and exalted. My heart is overjoyed time and time again. I can't explain it, but that was not happening for me at fbc. Someone earlier mentioned about the presence of the Holy Spirit at FBC... I hope it's there. I want to see fbc succeed. But for the right reasons.

This is by all means an account with gaping holes and somewhat of a ramble, but just a little bit that was on my heart and mind from someone who grew up here, and recently at that.
Click to expand...

This is a classic example of the long term result of pastors pointing their church people toward themselves and covering up sin. I guarantee that this same battle is being/has been fought in the mind of hundreds, if not thousands, of those who attend FBCH, and it is precisely why John Wilkerson's task is almost impossible. JW is trying to solve long standing systemic problems, but those problems have grown so deep for so long I don't know that they can be solved.

...and I am NOT criticizing this brother at all, in the least. I am saying that this is the fruit of wrong decision on the part of JH and JS, as well as a whole bunch of undiscerning Christians who bought into it. This man's decision is a consequence, not of his, but of his pastors, and not only that, it is a microcosm as well. Consequences very rarely go away until they have run their full course...
 
I agree that Pastor Wilkerson has a long, hard struggle but I am not going to limit God and say it cant be over come!
 
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