Satan's Emergent "Church" Movement - By Bryan Denlinger

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]What authority do we have, now, today, that is equal in authority with Gods revealed Word....the Bible?[/quote]

The Holy Spirit. Except that wouldn't be an equal authority but one much, MUCH greater.

As far as purely equal, it could be any number of things. But they are authoritative in different respects. If I want to "taste and see that the LORD is good", then a steak might get that point across a lot better than words on a page. If I want to experience the love of Christ, I might learn that lesson a lot better crying with my neighbors than reading John 3:16 a thousand times. If I want to see that God is faithful regardless of how circumstances appear, maybe I read about David.

A stop sign is no less authoritative than employee handbook, but they are authoritative in different respects.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]If the Bible is true, given by God, who is immutable would God reveal something to you contrary to a scripture?
It is our ULTIMATE authority...and will remain such.
FOREVER oh Lord your word is settled in heaven.[/quote]

Would God ever tell people to lay off the shrimp then tell people to eat tasty shrimp?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]What authority do we have, now, today, that is equal in authority with Gods revealed Word....the Bible?

The Holy Spirit. Except that wouldn't be an equal authority but one much, MUCH greater.

As far as purely equal, it could be any number of things. But they are authoritative in different respects. If I want to "taste and see that the LORD is good", then a steak might get that point across a lot better than words on a page. If I want to experience the love of Christ, I might learn that lesson a lot better crying with my neighbors than reading John 3:16 a thousand times.

A stop sign is no less authoritative than employee handbook, but they are authoritative in different respects.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]If the Bible is true, given by God, who is immutable would God reveal something to you contrary to a scripture?
It is our ULTIMATE authority...and will remain such.
FOREVER oh Lord your word is settled in heaven.[/quote]

Would God ever tell people to lay off the shrimp then tell people to eat tasty shrimp?
[/quote]

What has the Holy Spirit told you that isn't in Scripture?
How did He communicate with you?
How did you know He exists?

I'm not responsible for your ignorance due to lack of a proper hermeneutic.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Well, it's either trust the Bible, or trust <subjectively> myself to interpret my logic and feelings to be infallibly interpretive of the Holy Spirit's language to/through me, or I could just believe you.  I know which one makes more sense.

But aren't you trusting your "logic and feelings to be infallibly interpretive of the Holy Spirit's language to/through me" by trusting solely the 66-book canon, especially since the canon itself does not identify itself as solely authoritative?

By faith <and reasonable logial inference> I accept the canon.  By faith, <apparently> you trust yourself to interpret emotions, feelings, and whatever else you desire to be true about God.  It makes more sense to trust the word that was revealed than myself (or you) who is certifiably fallible.

I would certainly hope you would not accept me as the source of truth! 

Where have I said that I trust my interpretations of "emotions, feelings and whatever else desire to be true about God"?

In essence, it is easier to accept religious tradition about a canon as opposed to seeing if the canon is actually from God "as is" or not.

 

[rsc2a]

I'm reminded of Sproul's quote about having a fallible canon of infallible books...

Notice he's not forcing the Bible to be something it's not. But, I guess he doesn't have the Reformed credentials necessary to talk about Scripture.

I listen to Sproul everyday, and heard that sermon of which you speak.  You sir, are no Sproul.

I don't claim to be Sproul. We are each individuals loved by God.

[quote author=ALAYMAN]And given the truth of what Sproul admitted to, and to which I conceded in my last post in this thread to Smellin Coffee (that I accept the canon on faith, through reason), I'd go on record that Sproul is not saying anything close to what you're saying when he refers to the nature of Scriptural authority.[/quote]

I believe SC addressed this once already...

 

[ALAYMAN]

I would certainly hope you would not accept me as the source of truth! 

I would follow myself in the same manner.   Only in so far as the person is following Christ.  And I know that they are following Christ by seeing Him in His word.

Where have I said that I trust my interpretations of "emotions, feelings and whatever else desire to be true about God"?

In essence, it is easier to accept religious tradition about a canon as opposed to seeing if the canon is actually from God "as is" or not.

Well, gimme some credit man, I said "<apparently>".

So what do you accept as authoritative represenation of God's voice/word for you and is that only for you, or would you prescribe your view to others?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]What has the Holy Spirit told you that isn't in Scripture?[/quote]

"Do you want to love your wife? Then, go wash the dishes even though you don't want to."

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]How did He communicate with you?[/quote]

I've heard Him say that many ways. I've heard it in sermons. I've heard it in books. I've heard it in my emotions. I've heard it in my reasoning. I've heard it by others in my community of faith.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]How did you know He exists?[/quote]

How do I know the wind exists?

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I'm not responsible for your ignorance due to lack of a proper hermeneutic.
[/quote]

You mean you aren't responsible that your poor word choice allows for obvious counter-points to your questionable statement?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]What has the Holy Spirit told you that isn't in Scripture?

"Do you want to love your wife? Then, go wash the dishes even though you don't want to."

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]How did He communicate with you?[/quote]

I've heard Him say that many ways. I've heard it in sermons. I've heard it in books. I've heard it in my emotions. I've heard it in my reasoning. I've heard it by others in my community of faith.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]How did you know He exists?[/quote]

How do I know the wind exists?

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I'm not responsible for your ignorance due to lack of a proper hermeneutic.
[/quote]

You mean you aren't responsible that your poor word choice allows for obvious counter-points to your questionable statement?
[/quote]

The Holy Spirit has to tell you to wash he dishes?
My mother taught me that well before I was saved or married.
You've heard it? What is it?

You know he Holy Spirit exists because of the written word...the same way you know what you know about Jesus, salvation or creation.

You didn't learn those truths from nature, sex or a good meal....or a Wheaties box. But from the source...God...who revealed it to us thru His Word.

I think the sky is blue and grass is green....show Me where I'm wrong there....I know I've got to be mistaken...according to how great rsc2a art....

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Where does the Bible say differently?
Where does the Bible say that every man chooses his own truth?

Where does the Bible say differently concerning the Catholic canon? Or the Book of Mormon? Or the nutrition guide on a box of Wheaties?

By selecting to believe ONLY the 66-book canon, you are also selecting your "own truth", the same thing you accuse others (and rightly so) of doing. The only difference is, you are selecting based on religious tradition and accept as you were taught or perhaps as a conclusion of your own investigation. Either way, you also are being as subjective as those you mock.

I've never read a Wheaties box....but if its in red letters, it's got a shot.
God has left it up to you Dan....you decide what is true for you....and your truth doesn't have to be my truth...it doesn't have to be true, just be sincere....because God isnt able provide us a definitive source of His truth.
We are of all men most miserable.

Yes, God HAS left it up to me (to a point), to determine what is true in the canon and what isn't. To quote Ezekiel:

How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

Why should we trust the "scribes" as they have been handed down to us? Why should we not expect to see tares amongst the wheat?

Yes, I have to answer for myself before God so such research IS up to me to determine. To put a written document in authority of equality or greater than Jesus is idolatry, IMHO.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Why should we trust the "scribes" as they have been handed down to us? Why should we not expect to see tares amongst the wheat?

Yes, I have to answer for myself before God so such research IS up to me to determine. To put a written document in authority of equality or greater than Jesus is idolatry, IMHO.

Jesus never wrote a single word.  Why do you trust other people's opinion/account of what Christ said/did?

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Why should we trust the "scribes" as they have been handed down to us? Why should we not expect to see tares amongst the wheat?

Yes, I have to answer for myself before God so such research IS up to me to determine. To put a written document in authority of equality or greater than Jesus is idolatry, IMHO.

Jesus never wrote a single word.  Why do you trust other people's opinion/account of what Christ said/did?

Same reason you trust the 66-book canon. Faith.

I mentioned to Tarheel earlier that we all take the same subjective approach but that we reach different conclusions.

I believe that God chose to record the words and teachings of Christ His Son so that even though the words themselves might not be "inspired" (God-breathed), they are accurate testimony. Again, that belief is based on faith. So though the words of Jesus might not have been written down by Him, there is reason of history to accept they were recorded accurately, specifically by John and Matthew, both eyewitnesses.

 

[lnf]

Whew!  My mind is in a whirlwind reading these posts.

As for me, I put much stock in the Bible, the Living Word of God...

When I don't understand what my KJV is saying, I often look up different versions...nope, not right, nope, not right, YES!  Now I understand!  Who led me to the correct interpretation?  Holy Spirit, of course!

And I have felt the palpable presence of Holy Spirit in my life...the day I brought my dying husband home from the hospital with Hospice support...we had over a HUNDRED people tramp through our house paying what they thought were their last respects.  That first night, after they were all gone, my step-daughter told me that she didn't know how I managed to be a good hostess while still taking care of my husband without totally collapsing...

The truth of the matter was, Holy Spirit was holding me up.  I physically felt His hands upon me, so that I didn't collapse.  If you have not felt this in your own life, you cannot understand...

Six months later, when I buried my husband, I expected to feel Holy Spirit's presence like I did that night.  I did not.  But, in retrospect, I came to understand that I didn't need what I needed on that particular night six months earlier.

Yes, the Bible has authority, yes Holy Spirit comforts us and translates (with authority) for us, and also, the natural world declares His glory.  I can see that simply by looking out my window...

How do I know what is from God?  None contradict another...   

 

[Biblebeliever]

Well, I don't believe in following the Pope either. But I think there are plenty of Christians in the Catholic Church.
And I don't think something is bad merely because it came from that tradition.


This list is virtually all a matter of personal preference and/or an issue I could point to in all kinds of churches from the most "liberal" to the most "conservative". And personal preference is the largest chunk by far.


Right. Of Rick Warren's "purpose driven" format, I like about 1/3, am neutral on 1/3, and kinda negative on the remaining 1/3. But that's all methods of "doing church", and is not doctrine, and is not Scripture.

Well I am not sure if there are many of Christians in the Catholic church. There may be some, but not many. You see, Bible believing Christianity is a very small segment.

When a person is truly born again and has the Holy Spirit living inside of them, that Christian will have a new found love for the truth. And a true Christian would not stay in doctrinal error for a long time.

Because the Holy Spirit will lead that Christian into all truth. That Christian will have a desire to read and study the word of God. And when they do learn more and more about what the Scriptures say and teach, they will be able to discern the doctrinal errors and heresies of the Roman Catholic church. And they will leave the Roman Catholic church.

And Izdaari, here is the thing. The Catholic church is the enemy of true Bible believing Christianity. The Catholic church is the enemy of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Just consider this question, who was it that killed and burned millions of Christians down through the centuries?

What exactly from that list I gave you is a matter of personal preference?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Biblebeliever]Just consider this question, who was it that killed and burned millions of Christians down through the centuries?[/quote]

Pretty much every group that had any form of civil authority.

 

[Mr. Hall]

Well I am not sure if there are many of Christians in the Catholic church. There may be some, but not many. You see, Bible believing Christianity is a very small segment.

John 20:31

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

Acts 8:36-37

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."


Most, if not all Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.  Why then are not many of them Christians?

$