Since salvation requires turning to Christ, you are turning from something... right?
When God saved me, I knew that Jesus died for all of my sins. I just didn't know what all of my sins were at that moment. As I grew and learned that something was sinful, I turned from it.
Can you imagine what kind of a state you'd be in if as soon as you turned to Christ, you immediately realized everything that was sin in your life?
But then, in addition to recognizing specific sins, I've come to understand that sin is a state of being of the unregenerate.
Let me put it this way. They do non stop shacking up in order to get saved.
If they are truly saved, God will deal with them about it and make it clear that things cannot remain the way they were. If it comes to the attention of the pastor, he needs to counsel them to "Make the matter right," either move out and stop shacking up or get married ASAP. This should be a prerequisite for any further steps including baptism and being received into membership of the Church. I would say this is a matter that happens after salvation right along with anything else one may have to take care of such as if they embezzled from their business or recently robbed a liquor store and need to turn themselves into the legal authorities. Other things a new Christian may have to face could be a drinking, gambling, or anger issue problem.
If you are truly a child of God, you will have a desire to do the "right thing" and will seek help in order to do the right thing! You may not always want to do the right thing but God will either chasten or kill you! A Child of God cannot live in sin without experiencing God's chastening hand!
What is confession? Think it all the way through here!
Confession of sin means you acknowledge what you are doing to be wrong and desire to NO LONGER DO WHATEVER IT IS YOU ARE CONFESSING! It is therefore very much a "Turning away" from sin!
I guess you could confess to someone that you are an "Axe Murderer" and you love what you are doing and have no desire whatsoever to stop and perhaps plan even to find another victim later tonight! Such is hyperbolic in order to prove my point!
It does not mean that if you have "Confessed and Turned Away" from a particular sin and a few days later have a moment of weakness and commit the same sin that you had not genuinely repented of that sin previously!
Our repentance from sin is not a perfect, "once for all" repentance whereby we get to (or have to) live a SIN-FREE Christian life and never have to repent again! The Christian life is a life of CONTINUAL REPENTANCE and forsaking of sin! There are sins of which we will have ultimate victory over and others in which we will struggle "until the day Jesus Christ" when we will be perfectly conformed to his image never more to struggle with our fallen, sinful nature!
Therefore, your salvation is not contingent on how well you repented when you first got saved but whether repentance is evident in the life you are living right now!
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
Guest
On a happy note, the pastor never had to mention the shacking up. Minutes after leading them to Christ, the young couple asked the pastor if they should get married, and he said yes, ASAP. However, had said had the Holy Spirit not prompted that move, he would have waited until God moved in their lives.
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
Guest
I think he’s saying we should alter pre-salvation behaviors because it’s the command of God for a Christian lifestyle, however, recognizing (confessing) sin is the requirement for salvation (not the actual abandonment of sin).
His approach to sin is very laissez-faire. He’s definitely not a fire & brimstone preacher.
Much of the debate came from the proponents of "Free Grace" of which Chafer is party to along with Zane Hodges, Bob Wilkin, Chuck Swindoll, and Charles Ryrie. Dallas Theological Seminary has been one of the hotbeds of "Free Grace" thinking.
John MacArthur wrote his book "The Gospel According to Jesus" primarily as a refutation to the "Free Grace" position and while I largely agree with and side with MacArthur on this matter, I also see where each side has intentionally misrepresented the other and we need to be careful with our criticisms and make sure we stick to the primary sources rather than what one side says about the other!
On one extreme, the "Free Gracers" accuse the "Lordship Salvation" people of saying that you have to "REPENT AND REALLY MEAN BUSINESS WITH GOD (and confess and forsake every sin you can think of) before God will hear your prayer for salvation and will actually save you." I defy you to find anything from MacArthur that comes anywhere close to such a position!
On the other extreme, MacArthur has made statements that the "Free Gracers" say all you have to do is "believe that Jesus is the Son of God" and that a changed life is not only not evidence of one being saved, but that one does not have to exhibit any sort of changed life at all!
The proper, balanced, and biblical position is that repentance follows regeneration and is therefore evidence of a true conversion. "Free Gracers" who actually read their Bible would not disagree with this.
Sanctification is a process. It takes people time, post-salvation, to shed their old cultural beliefs/practices.
Good thing this preacher did not ask them to cleanup their lives and confuse that with salvation.
Good thing this preacher did not ask them to cleanup their lives and confuse that with salvation.
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If that is accurate it sure is an unusual pedigree for an IFB and merits expanded explanation. I can’t imagine he was IFB when he elected to pursue education through a “water dog” (baptismal regeneration) school.
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Dr. Huk-N-Duck
Guest
I know that he didn’t go straight into the ministry after college. I don’t think he felt the calling until he was around 25 years old and out of college for a few years. I don’t think his undergrad was ministry related. His graduate degrees came from PCC and BJU after he felt called to ministry. In fact, before being called to ministry, a coworker was the one who led him to assurance of salvation, because up until that point, he only “hoped” to get to heaven.If that is accurate it sure is an unusual pedigree for an IFB and merits expanded explanation. I can’t imagine he was IFB when he elected to pursue education through a “water dog” (baptismal regeneration) school.
From what I'm to understand, that is a common position among C of C adherents.
I believe Repentance is turning from your old life and the things you believed in to Christ and what he did on the cross. I believe once a person is saved he will have the Holy Spirit inside him and will desire to do right as he understands what God expects.
If we had to give up all our sins before we could get saved there would be very few true Christians. When I got saved I understood I was a sinner (though it would take many years to realize how often I sin), and I needed a saviour and I trusted the finished work of Calvery to pay for all my sins and take me to heaven. At that point the Holy Spirit came in and I desired to live right, but the change of lifestyle did not happen over night. Now when I sin I feel bad about it and ask for forgivness.
Some believe a person gives up smoking or drinking to get saved, I believe in time someone who gets saved will desire to give it up.
As necessary as baptism.
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False equivalence.
There would be none.
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You can be saved without being baptized, not without repentance.
It can be said that if you are saved, you will repent and be baptized!
Saying one cannot be saved without repentance is saying one cannot be saved without obedience, and baptism is part of obedience. In fact, it's the first part.