Pastor Chris Wolford - Soft White Underbelly

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Lack of decent education is often at the root of heretical or seriously flawed teachings. I had an intelligent coworker who dabbled in Christianity and had family/familiarity in some of these backwoods churches. He noted how common it was for them to have bizarre beliefs and how poor the average education was for those associated with these sorts of “holiness” assemblies. I think his observations are generally accurate for this sect of Christianity.
I would agree with the lack of education but what about the Heaven's Gate Cult? They seemed to be highly educated with many holding advanced degrees and they had some of the most bizarre, wacked out teachings as anyone!
 
I would agree with the lack of education but what about the Heaven's Gate Cult? They seemed to be highly educated with many holding advanced degrees and they had some of the most bizarre, wacked out teachings as anyone!

That's where the influence of mind control comes into play. Even intelligent people (who are disillusioned, disenfranchised, broken emotionally, etc) are susceptible to the charismatic control of a winsome/strong leader's charms when they are seeking to fill that void in their lives. The other side of the coin I mentioned (lack of education) has more to do with the devotee's inability to use their faculties to critically analyze inconsistencies in basic patterns of thought (hermeneutics). They hear stories of morality, and wanting to "be on God's side" (no different than Luther's pre-Catholic conversion) so they submit to anything that remotely sounds "Biblical" and conservative (often in a hyper-literal sense). In some smaller respects, I was naively guilty of following that pattern when I first came under the influence of fundamentalist Christianity (Hyles style "standerrrrrrrds").
 
I would agree with the lack of education but what about the Heaven's Gate Cult? They seemed to be highly educated with many holding advanced degrees and they had some of the most bizarre, wacked out teachings as anyone!
Some of the biggest idiots I’ve ever encountered have JD and PhD degrees…just sayin.’
 
We've talked about the issues of charismatic heresy as well as the humble attitude of this pastor in his desire to Rodney King other denoms 😁, and that reminded me of a personal story I don't think I've told on the FFF before.....

I was out soulwinning when I came upon a door of a pentacostal older gentleman. I introduced myself and headed for the Romans Road. He stopped me shortly into my schpiel and asked me if I'd ever seen the tabernacle of the Lord filled with the cloud of His presence, to which I patiently replied "no", and tried redirecting the conversation. But upon redirect, he quickly subverted my efforts and asked if I had ever seen anybody who had been healed by the laying on of hands. I was getting a bit annoyed at this point, and admittedly a little in the flesh shot back "have you ever raised anybody from the dead"? He stammered and stumbled and tried to tell me what kind of unbeliever I was so I figured I had cast enough pearls at that door so I moved on and shook the dust off. The moral to the story? As abcaines alluded to, people are often unwilling to listen to counter-perspectives sincerely enough to have genuine dialogue, so that's why I come here to the Fighting Forum where nobody is so recalcitrant 🤣
 
I would agree with the lack of education but what about the Heaven's Gate Cult? They seemed to be highly educated with many holding advanced degrees and they had some of the most bizarre, wacked out teachings as anyone!
There are members of MENSA who are Scientologists. While there's a correlation between intelligence/education and critical thinking, it's not a perfect one.
 
No Scientologist should be allowed to join MENSA. They should be referred to DENSA instead. :cool: Same applies to the Morons (LDS).
 
I learned something today...

"They do it simply as an act of obedience," Dr. Pennignton said.

Handlers, he said, have an understanding that unless they feel the anointing of the Holy Spirit, they are not to pick up the serpent. If they feel anointed by God, they must pick it up.

"This is by no means a test of their faith," he said. Link

I had always believed that their handling of snakes was integrally tied to the notion of proving their faith was authentic (or "testing" their faith), but this academic expert says that it is merely an indicator of their professed piety and devotion to do what they believe the Bible commands them to do. It makes it no less erroneous or misguided IMNSHO, but it does increase my respect for their convictions (if obedience and conviction is truly their motive) just a tad. That's probably splitting a hair pretty fine, and a distinction without a difference, but I think it's noteworthy to understand that they aren't doing it with the idea of ferreting out those who are sinners from among them (or "separating tares from wheat") as I had previously believed they were doing by practicing such outrageous religion.
 
That’s a new one for me. Can you post any additional info on this? I thought he might just be uncomfortable in front of a camera. In the video he said that he doesn’t like interviews and it might be his last one, because everyone is capitalizing off the interview except his church, which receives nothing in return except criticism.
it;s not a proven science.... ...i was just pointing it out to say i personally would not trust him..... and you are right... it might just be that he is uncomfortable in front of the camera..... . the eye direction and detecting lies thing was a theory that came out in 1975.... and there are tons of articles online both claiming it;s valid and others who say it;s junk science....

those who actually use eye movements to detect liars do so in combination with body language and many other factors.... not just the eye movement alone ..they say eye movement is unreliable if not used in combination with those other factors and that the whole science of detecting lies is much more complicated than it sounds....

here is an article on detecting liars and a simple chart below that explains the other theory.... it;s based on which part of the brain those things come from in most people... ..but experts all say people who are pathological or well practiced liars can beat attempts to detect them..... ..



quickreference5.jpeg
 
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I learned something today...



I had always believed that their handling of snakes was integrally tied to the notion of proving their faith was authentic (or "testing" their faith), but this academic expert says that it is merely an indicator of their professed piety and devotion to do what they believe the Bible commands them to do. It makes it no less erroneous or misguided IMNSHO, but it does increase my respect for their convictions (if obedience and conviction is truly their motive) just a tad. That's probably splitting a hair pretty fine, and a distinction without a difference, but I think it's noteworthy to understand that they aren't doing it with the idea of ferreting out those who are sinners from among them (or "separating tares from wheat") as I had previously believed they were doing by practicing such outrageous religion.
Ya... I was a bit flabbergasted at the notion they have construed that passage into a command. That would be the poster child of bad hermeneutics fer sure.
 
Ya... I was a bit flabbergasted at the notion they have construed that passage into a command. That would be the poster child of bad hermeneutics fer sure.
My humble hermeneutical analysis of Mark 16 leads me to believe that Jesus never meant taking up of serpents and the drinking of poison to be a "Display of Faith" but if an enemy of God tries to kill you off by throwing a serpent in your sack or spikes your drink with strychnine, that the Lord was going to protect you! Look at the only account in the New Testament that even remotely resembles "Snake Handling" with Paul on the island of Melita in Acts 28:3-6. Paul wasn't doing the standard "Snake Handling" thing, the serpent just came up and bit him while he was gathering firewood! God simply protected him because he was not yet done with him! And yes, I believe God can, will, and does do the very same thing in this day and age! Its just that we are not to go out and try to make such things actually happen!
 
My humble hermeneutical analysis of Mark 16 leads me to believe that Jesus never meant taking up of serpents and the drinking of poison to be a "Display of Faith" but if an enemy of God tries to kill you off by throwing a serpent in your sack or spikes your drink with strychnine, that the Lord was going to protect you! Look at the only account in the New Testament that even remotely resembles "Snake Handling" with Paul on the island of Melita in Acts 28:3-6. Paul wasn't doing the standard "Snake Handling" thing, the serpent just came up and bit him while he was gathering firewood! God simply protected him because he was not yet done with him! And yes, I believe God can, will, and does do the very same thing in this day and age! Its just that we are not to go out and try to make such things actually happen!
As a young believer, the first time I was exposed to that passage, I understood what Jesus was saying. How people misconstrue this so badly is beyond me.
 
I would say your sister (Running With Scissors?) has first-hand knowledge of the subject as she probably deals with more than a few on a daily basis!
she does.... most of the people her company protects are highly educated... and she always said one of the hardest parts of the job was keeping those super smart clients from doing stupid things that would put themselves in danger.... .
 
it;s not a proven science.... ...i was just pointing it out to say i personally would not trust him..... and you are right... it might just be that he is uncomfortable in front of the camera..... . the eye direction and detecting lies thing was a theory that came out in 1975.... and there are tons of articles online both claiming it;s valid and others who say it;s junk science.
It’s an interesting theory, but as you said, probably not very reliable statistically. In court, one can be 100% factual but get on a stand in front of a jury and judge, and begin sweating bullets and coughing and looking like a complete liar by outward bodily signs. The opposite can also happen, wherein a practiced liar can come across relaxed and charismatic, leading to the belief that s/he is telling the truth.
 
I learned something today...



I had always believed that their handling of snakes was integrally tied to the notion of proving their faith was authentic (or "testing" their faith), but this academic expert says that it is merely an indicator of their professed piety and devotion to do what they believe the Bible commands them to do. It makes it no less erroneous or misguided IMNSHO, but it does increase my respect for their convictions (if obedience and conviction is truly their motive) just a tad. That's probably splitting a hair pretty fine, and a distinction without a difference, but I think it's noteworthy to understand that they aren't doing it with the idea of ferreting out those who are sinners from among them (or "separating tares from wheat") as I had previously believed they were doing by practicing such outrageous religion.
It’s difficult to find fault with people who earnestly believe what they’re reading in the Bible. Not saying we approve, but some empathy is sometimes required in life.
 
As a young believer, the first time I was exposed to that passage, I understood what Jesus was saying. How people misconstrue this so badly is beyond me.
You were in Millington around the same time as me right?

Do you remember the United Pentecostal Church in town with all the PRETTY GIRLS trying to witness to Sailors on "Navy Road?"

Their doctrine was more twisted than than a pretzel dipped in cheese sauce but boy them girls SURE WERE PURTY and girls were absolutely NON-EXISTENT in the IFB Church I was attending (Southside Baptist)! There were definitely a few times I was tempted to get on the "Other" Church bus for this reason alone!

God sure kept me safe from having "Two Ex-Wives" and a wagonload of bad doctrine! :ROFLMAO:
 

Fast forward the video to the 10-minute mark. What kind of Baptists have music like this? Back when I was growing up, my grandparents church up in the foothills of North Carolina looked just like this during the praise & worship portion of the services. However, it was definitely a BAPTIST church —not charismatic or anything else. It was definitely not the same sort of Baptist church I grew up in.
 

Fast forward the video to the 10-minute mark. What kind of Baptists have music like this? Back when I was growing up, my grandparents church up in the foothills of North Carolina looked just like this during the praise & worship portion of the services. However, it was definitely a BAPTIST church —not charismatic or anything else. It was definitely not the same sort of Baptist church I grew up in.
I didn't see anyone go for a swim in the Baptistry so this seems somewhat tame to some other Churches I have known. Shady Acres Baptist Church (Houston TX) during their "Camp Meeting" time, would have people running the aisles, whoopin' and a hollerin,' waving the flags, and I have heard reports of one or two going for a swim in the Baptistry. Definitely no snake handlin' though! I guess this Baptist Church don't preach against dancing or drums!
 
I didn't see anyone go for a swim in the Baptistry so this seems somewhat tame to some other Churches I have known. Shady Acres Baptist Church (Houston TX) during their "Camp Meeting" time, would have people running the aisles, whoopin' and a hollerin,' waving the flags, and I have heard reports of one or two going for a swim in the Baptistry. Definitely no snake handlin' though! I guess this Baptist Church don't preach against dancing or drums!
Interesting. Growing up on the coast, I was never sure if it was a mountain vs coastal cultural difference, or maybe they just have different types of Baptists in the hills. I just knew their Baptist church was quite livelier than mine…and more fun! LOL
 
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