Pastor Chris Wolford - Soft White Underbelly

[ALAYMAN]

I don’t agree with them whatsoever with the nonsense, but I also know they wouldn’t agree with me on some issues. I will say I found this pastor to possess a very humble spirit. It’s quite obvious he’s not a seminary educated individual, and it’s dubious whether he even graduated from high school, but he’s quite educated in the Scriptures and when he speaks of other Christians (he specifically mentions the local Baptists) who make fun of them and put their church down, and how he never does this back, it makes one wonder who’s really living in the spirit of God and who’s acting like the Pharisees.

And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
Then Judas, which had betrayed him
Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. Now the house was full of men and women; and all the lords of the Philistines were there; and there were upon the roof about three thousand men and women, that beheld while Samson made sport. And Samson called unto the Lord, and said, O Lord God, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes. And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left. And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Would you object to churches using this hermeneutic to advocate for martyrdom by suicide?

 

[ALAYMAN]

I did notice in several of his statements, the idea of eternal assurance of salvation seemed dubious at best. Maybe I was misinterpreting his statements, but he seems to indicate going to heaven as more of a hope than a foregone conclusion after salvation.

You astutely picked up on his works-based hardcore Arminianism clothed in Christianese language regarding repentance and “living a holy life” as a basis for uncertainty over whether he would ultimately make it into heaven.

 

[abcaines]

Oneness Pentecostals aren’t monolithic, as some allow women preachers and some don’t. Based solely on his doctrine regarding women in ministry I don’t think you can deduce his stance on the Trinity. The independent ecclesiology among Pentecostals and Apostolics encompasses a wide spectrum of doctrinal similarities AND differences.

I was basing my speculation on what I read and what I know of others. I know the limitations of such speculation. I have no information from the source. I hope I've used the term IF adequately.

But then, let's suppose for the sake of argument they hold to orthodoxy (relatively speaking) are we doing them any favors by suffering their foolish behavior lightly? No, I'm not saying we should cruelly mock them but we ought to regard them as any brother in sin.

 

[abcaines]

I did notice in several of his statements, the idea of eternal assurance of salvation seemed dubious at best. Maybe I was misinterpreting his statements, but he seems to indicate going to heaven as more of a hope than a foregone conclusion after salvation.

This makes my heart ache for him all the more.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I don’t agree with them whatsoever with the nonsense, but I also know they wouldn’t agree with me on some issues. I will say I found this pastor to possess a very humble spirit. It’s quite obvious he’s not a seminary educated individual, and it’s dubious whether he even graduated from high school, but he’s quite educated in the Scriptures and when he speaks of other Christians (he specifically mentions the local Baptists) who make fun of them and put their church down, and how he never does this back, it makes one wonder who’s really living in the spirit of God and who’s acting like the Pharisees.

Lack of decent education is often at the root of heretical or seriously flawed teachings. I had an intelligent coworker who dabbled in Christianity and had family/familiarity in some of these backwoods churches. He noted how common it was for them to have bizarre beliefs and how poor the average education was for those associated with these sorts of “holiness” assemblies. I think his observations are generally accurate for this sect of Christianity.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

Would you object to churches using this hermeneutic to advocate for martyrdom by suicide?

I guess the difference in how I’d view his misguided (in our opinion) application of Scripture versus what you’re saying, is that he’s not purposefully setting out to kill himself. He’s being as haphazard as the 18-year-old kid driving a motorcycle 100 mph for a thrill, and both are deadly acts that statistically will eventually lead to demise, but he’s not trying to actually end his life.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I was basing my speculation on what I read and what I know of others. I know the limitations of such speculation. I have no information from the source. I hope I've used the term IF adequately.

But then, let's suppose for the sake of argument they hold to orthodoxy (relatively speaking) are we doing them any favors by suffering their foolish behavior lightly? No, I'm not saying we should cruelly mock them but we ought to regard them as any brother in sin.

Two thumbs up for the truth here. I did feel sorry for the fella for 2 reasons (or more). As you implied/stated, his error has him deceived and leads to deception of others, and how easily derision is the first go-to for some “orthodox” Christians. Paul had no problem calling out error, but I have a feeling he would first try to recover a brother from out of the way. And this fella in the video, as Huk said, seemed to have enough humility that he indeed could possibly yield to Scriptural reasoning.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I guess the difference in how I’d view his misguided (in our opinion) application of Scripture versus what you’re saying, is that he’s not purposefully setting out to kill himself. He’s being as haphazard as the 18-year-old kid driving a motorcycle 100 mph for a thrill, and both are deadly acts that statistically will eventually lead to demise, but he’s not trying to actually end his life.

Difference is that this motorcyclist is handing out Free Ride tickets and putting the recipients on the back of his bike to get a spectacular vista as he attempts to jump Grand Canyon.

 

[abcaines]

After all this discussion, I am being moved to pray specifically for this fella. I see where his father died in 1983 from snake bite when he was 11 years old. That puts him in his early 50s. I am beginning to see him as a misguided child.

As for his humility potentially allowing him to yield to scriptural reasoning, I, unfortunately, don't hold out much hope. If he's stubborn enough to continue this practice despite losing his father and brother and enduring, by his own admission, excruciating pain to the point where he was begging doctors to amputate his arm, he's probably become pretty adept at rejecting the prompting of the Spirit.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

His stories of his dad with the demonic spirit, and his own drug addiction, and twice being healed in church were interesting. He even laid out disclaimers that most would mock and question his statements, but he knew the stories were real. Now that side of Christianity is certainly foreign to my life’s experiences in church.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

This guy, Pastor Jamie Coots, died from serpent handling two weeks after this video was shot. He was probably the most well known of the snake preachers.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

The crazy part is that a church like this one brings back memories of when I was a kid visiting my grandparents near the mountains of North Carolina. They actually attended a Baptist church, but it was a different breed of Baptists church from that I grew up with. There were people running up and down the church aisles, screaming, dancing and sometimes a human train would form. It was some wild stuff!

 

[abcaines]

Ok. I knuckled down and listened to the video... I don't typically subject myself to 40 minutes of goofball talk but I did it. I was pleased to hear him exhibiting a fair amount of grace. I was also pleased by how he spoke of Jesus as being equal with God, yet, right on the heels of that is when he cast doubt on his assurance. He was all over the place both in doctrine and his speaking. So, though my first hand knowledge has increased, I'm still left wondering if he really knew what he was talking about at times.

 

[aleshanee]

I guess the difference in how I’d view his misguided (in our opinion) application of Scripture versus what you’re saying, is that he’s not purposefully setting out to kill himself. He’s being as haphazard as the 18-year-old kid driving a motorcycle 100 mph for a thrill, and both are deadly acts that statistically will eventually lead to demise, but he’s not trying to actually end his life.

very strange that you should mention that...... my sister was stopped by police once for riding her motorcycle.. a ducati monster... at over 100 mph through the pali tunnels when she was still in college... she had only had the machine a short while when that happened... .. i think my dad posted something about that on one of the older forums several years ago. .. . the police officer knew our dad... and though she begged him not to - the officer had called him while he still had her stopped beside the road..

in all fairness she was a very skilled rider... even back then.... ...but thankfully she doesn;t ride like that anymore.... and as far as i know she never went that fast on it again.... i use to ride with her a lot back when she rode more often.... ..personally i would pick being on the back of her bike at 100 mph over going anywhere near a rattle snake..... much less picking one up and dancing around with it...

but one thing i noticed about that guy when i saw his video..... he is constantly gazing for prolonged periods to the upper right while telling his story..... people who do that are usually trying to access the part of the brain responisble for imagination..... when people are recounting something from memory they tend to glance.... but not actually gaze... to the upper left... which is where the part of the brain is that stores most of the memories.....

i don;t know anything about this guy other than what was posted here..... and there are exceptions to that rule on how the eyes and brain generally work together.... but just saying.... i would never trust him just based on that alone....

 

[abcaines]

my sister was stopped by police once for riding her motorcycle.. a ducati monster... at over 100 mph...

Not hard to do.

 

[aleshanee]

Not hard to do.

not hard at all on that particular motorcycle... .. but according to the police stopping her wasn;t easy....... they didn;t chase her when they saw her go by them... instead they radioed ahead and another officer pulled his car across the road a couple of miles ahead of her, just outside the tunnels - with his lights flashing - .. . she said seeing his lights flashing off the tunnel walls ahead was the first indication she had that she had been noticed and was in trouble.... but then the conversation our dad had with her when she got home confirmed it was trouble indeed....

one would think that seeing other people of the same faith get bitten by rattlesnakes and dying, would serve as flashing lights ahead for some of these present day snake handlers.... it even happens to highly trained reptile experts sometimes.... opportunites to test and prove our faith will come in this life often enough.... whether we really want them to or not.... there is no reason in my opinion to perform the kind of stunt or demonstration that many see as the scriptural equivalent of tempting God.... matthew 4, 5-7

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

a ducati monster... at over 100 mph through the pali tunnels when she was still in college

They call them crotch rockets where I live. I hate seeing kids riding on these things. I once owned a cruiser and sold it after putting only a couple thousand miles on it. Too many nuts driving around me and a couple close calls.

 

[Dr. Huk-N-Duck]

i don;t know anything about this guy other than what was posted here..... and there are exceptions to that rule on how the eyes and brain generally work together.... but just saying.... i would never trust him just based on that alone.

That’s a new one for me. Can you post any additional info on this? I thought he might just be uncomfortable in front of a camera. In the video he said that he doesn’t like interviews and it might be his last one, because everyone is capitalizing off the interview except his church, which receives nothing in return except criticism.

 

[ALAYMAN]

one would think that seeing other people of the same faith get bitten by rattlesnakes and dying... there is no reason in my opinion to perform the kind of stunt or demonstration that many see as the scriptural equivalent of tempting God.... matthew 4, 5-7

That was exactly my first thought as well, a violation of the prohibition to tempt God. I think the key insight into the psyche of folks involved with this kind of worship is the heavy influence of cultural pressures in remote locations (isolated from social influences and information) and general lack of intelligence/education. I think it is generally observable that people who are prone to prioritizing emotions over serious reflective (theological) contemplation gravitate to the emotions-based pentacostal style of faith.

 

[ALAYMAN]

This guy, Pastor Jamie Coots, died from serpent handling two weeks after this video was shot. He was probably the most well known of the snake preachers.

Passing the butane torch around was a new one on me, but I appreciated the discretionary "no thank you, not today" head shake that the one good ole boy exercised when they attempted to pass the torch <ahem> his way (at the 8:13 mark).