Martin knocked down Zimmerman and allegedly pounded his head on the sidewalk

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There's a difference between bitter and aware.

I see you're one of the "shut up and put up" crowd. That attitude never did anything to solve issues in the past, doesn't now, and never will.

 
jimmudcatgrant said:
The people described above were not true Christians.  Never were Christians.  There are still people like that, but y'all make it sound like you believe all white conservative Christians are like that, and that is prejudice talking imo. 

I brought up verses showing why life is unfair: because sin-diseased people are unfair.  I don't think I implied that the verses talked about Christians. 

 
Gina B said:
There's a difference between bitter and aware.

I see you're one of the "shut up and put up" crowd. That attitude never did anything to solve issues in the past, doesn't now, and never will.

I'm not sure the bitter person is aware of the bitterness. 



 
Gina B said:
ALAYMAN said:
Gina B said:
If I'm wrong and you're doing something to help Zimmerman, please let me know.


non-sequitur

There are lots of injustices that people don't take a personal stake in, and by abstaining from action it doesn't mean they have any bias or prejudice necessarily.

I understand that. However, it seems that if people feel strongly enough about something to spend time analyzing and posting about it, logic says they would become involved in some way, shape, or form. Otherwise, why waste the time discussing it?

The race issue is one that is important to me because I've dealt with it in some way, shape, or form for my whole life. I can't have my kids and their friends walk out that door without worrying that the next George Zimmerman is out there and about a week ago, a white conservative Christian man put my daughter's safety in jeopardy because he saw two non-whites in a car and assumed they were stealing gas, so he took it on himself to follow them in his truck AFTER he called the police and not just follow them, tail them super close and when they wouldn't pull over for the crazy guy, he swerved in front of them and slammed on his brakes and blocked them from being able to drive, got out of his car, and started going off about stealing gas. These are two honor students who haven't had a day's trouble in their lives. They were scared. Their salvation? My daughter recognized the guy's voice and took her jacket off. (she had been huddled in fear in the corner with it over her head) and he said "oh, it's you." No apologies. When I called him, no apologies, just layers of changing reasons why. I didn't even bother trying to drag the truth out, it was obvious. And what are the kids supposed to do next time? My first thought would be call 9-1-1, but we just had a black kid who, by the reports, was shot in the back by police with witnesses saying he had his hands in the air giving himself up at the time. Is it true? Still waiting on the whole story on that one, but in the meantime, should I tell the kids to trust the police? The guy who stopped them is friends with the police. Would they have believed the white guy who is their friend or the "suspicious looking" teens?

You want me to be quiet and you think *I* am part of the problem because I'm willing to call this garbage what it is...RACIAL? No, I don't think so.  There's enough crime and danger in this world. Nobody should have to be in further danger than they already are just because of their skin tone. It sickens me. Maybe you don't deal with it in your world, but I do in mine and as a human it's an obscene mark on human nature, as a parent it's just plain frightening, as a conservative Christian, it's embarrassing since that's where I see it coming from the most. "Good Christian folk," the type who won't let my kids on their doorstep and who see me and see white and think they can confide in me about how horrible it is that our town is being destroyed by all these blacks and "Koreans" and other races. I had to gently let someone know last month that "those Korean kids" not only aren't Korean, (apparently out here, anyone that looks Asian is Korean) they're MY kids and not just random Koreans invading their white territory. UGH No apologies there either, even though I was very nice and tried to make a joke of it.

Nobody ever apologizes. They make excuses or change the subject when they find out "oh, I screwed up."

And on and on it goes.

And the next one gets profiled.

And the next one gets chased down and has a truck slammed in front of them in the middle of town on a public road.

And the next one gets shot.

And those of us who speak out become the bad guys for doing so. We're crazy for seeing anything racial in this. We're paranoid. We enjoy throwing out the race card. Excuse me, but I DREAM of the day when race isn't a concern! Nobody should have to live in fear just because of their race.

Excuse me while I go SCREAM!

Maybe one day people will get it. I sure wish that day had come and gone already.

I don't believe your story. Can you post any news article to confirm your "tale"? People like you are always making up facts. Just like they have made up facts in the Martin/Zimmerman case.

We found out yesterday that the 911 operator asked if the man Zimmerman was following black. till that point... Zimmerman hadn't said one thing about him being black. Zimmerman just answered the 911 operators question. NBC edited out the operator question to make it appear that Zimmerman was purposely targeting a black man.

I bet your story is similar if it even happened at all.
 
[quote author=Gina B] However, it seems that if people feel strongly enough about something to spend time analyzing and posting about it, logic says they would become involved in some way, shape, or form. Otherwise, why waste the time discussing it? [/quote]

Several answers come to mind. 

1) Some people are simply social creatures who like to "fellowship"/socialize with folk of like mind, and do so for a variety of reasons that satisfy they need for human interaction.

2) Others are afraid of intrusion of civil rights of a different kind, like the constant barrage of attacks on gun laws and our rights to bear arms.  This case serves to further more than just a racial agenda.

3) A few are tired of some folk making every issue a race issue (ie, "the race card"). 

There are other potential reasons, but that's enough for now.

Gina B said:
You want me to be quiet and you think *I* am part of the problem because I'm willing to call this garbage what it is...RACIAL? No, I don't think so.

I'm sorry about the idiot who accosted your daughter and their friends.  In my neck of the woods there's a pervert who has assaulted and threatened children/teenage girls at the bus stop in the morning while the wait to go to school.  This world ain't a safe place.  That's very unfortunate, but it's a reality of the sin of Adam handed to us.  No, I don't want you to shutup, I want civil discourse regarding the facts of the case.  I don't want a rush to judgment, or more of Jackson/Sharpton furthering their ideological spewage and exploiting a situation that may not be what it appears to be according to their version of facts.  If it turns out that the fella shot Martin without proper legal recourse ("self defense") then he should pay for his crime, but the whole notion of "hate crimes" deserving stiffer penalty than a regular murder is absolutely baloney.  If somebody murders somebody our law(s) and court system merely needs to uphold the severity of the penalty that is already at their disposal.

Gina B said:
Maybe one day people will get it. I sure wish that day had come and gone already.

Not one person on this forum is glad that Martin got shot because he is black.  But I'd venture a guess that many people with fathers, brothers, sons, and friends and family are glad that they have the right to defend their lives in the event that a menacing situation turns to a deadly self-defense. 

Let the facts come out.  If race played a part in it, then decry such ugly behavior, but do it on the basis of facts, not a boogey-man of the news-creating media and Black-panther-like circus that's being fueled by irresponsible behavior that leads to mob mentality and looting.
 
I agree on letting the facts come out. I don't think they would have though, had people not stood up and demanded a further investigation, which is now happening. If everyone had remained quiet, it wouldn't have. Now to wait and see what happens and hope that in the future, matters like this will be fully and properly investigated to begin with.
 
Gina B said:
I agree on letting the facts come out. I don't think they would have though, had people not stood up and demanded a further investigation, which is now happening. If everyone had remained quiet, it wouldn't have. Now to wait and see what happens and hope that in the future, matters like this will be fully and properly investigated to begin with.

That's a reasonable position.  Though I'm against civil disobedience that cloaks mob rule and looting, especially when there are ways to call attention to injustice without attracting the bottom-feeders like Sharpton/Jackson.
 
Gina B said:
I agree on letting the facts come out. I don't think they would have though, had people not stood up and demanded a further investigation, which is now happening. If everyone had remained quiet, it wouldn't have. Now to wait and see what happens and hope that in the future, matters like this will be fully and properly investigated to begin with.

Fine, I agree that if someone knows something relevant to the case and is ignored by the authorities, then further action is warranted.  But all the rhetoric on both sides trying to incite people or prejudge people is uncalled for.  2 wrongs never make a right.
 
El Cid said:
The liberals so conveniently leave that out when trying to make it a race issue.

You mean Martin fought back, and suddenly it's OK that he got shot for it?

Doesn't matter; the story about Martin hitting Zimmerman is pretty obviously wrong.  Oh, and by the way:  the unnamed "news sources" in the Faux News piece?  Conveniently unnamed.  Citation by innuendo:  typical for Fox, and quickly believed by conservatives who willingly lap it up.

Actual news with video:
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897

A police surveillance video taken the night that Trayvon Martin was shot dead shows no blood or bruises on George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who says he shot Martin after he was punched in the nose, knocked down and had his head slammed into the ground. The surveillance video, which was obtained exclusively by ABC News, shows Zimmerman arriving in a police cruiser. As he exits the car, his hands are cuffed behind his back. Zimmerman is frisked and then led down a series of hallways, still cuffed.

Zimmerman, 28, is wearing a red and black fleece and his face and head are cleanly shaven. He appears well built, hardly the portly young man depicted in a 2005 mug shot that until a two days ago was the single image the media had of Zimmerman.


 
[quote author=christundivided]
I don't believe your story. Can you post any news article to confirm your "tale"? People like you are always making up facts. [/quote]

You mean like you tried to make up facts when discussing energy policy? But you got caught doing it?

You have a lot of nerve asking other people to substantiate their daily life experienced, when you clearly cannot and will not do the same for your claims.
But that's pretty typical for you.

Just like they have made up facts in the Martin/Zimmerman case.
Right now, the claim that Zimmerman was knocked to the ground was made up.  And people like you believe it, and repeat it.
 
redgreen5 said:
El Cid said:
The liberals so conveniently leave that out when trying to make it a race issue.

You mean Martin fought back, and suddenly it's OK that he got shot for it?

Doesn't matter; the story about Martin hitting Zimmerman is pretty obviously wrong.  Oh, and by the way:  the unnamed "news sources" in the Faux News piece?  Conveniently unnamed.  Citation by innuendo:  typical for Fox, and quickly believed by conservatives who willingly lap it up.

Actual news with video:
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897

A police surveillance video taken the night that Trayvon Martin was shot dead shows no blood or bruises on George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who says he shot Martin after he was punched in the nose, knocked down and had his head slammed into the ground. The surveillance video, which was obtained exclusively by ABC News, shows Zimmerman arriving in a police cruiser. As he exits the car, his hands are cuffed behind his back. Zimmerman is frisked and then led down a series of hallways, still cuffed.

Zimmerman, 28, is wearing a red and black fleece and his face and head are cleanly shaven. He appears well built, hardly the portly young man depicted in a 2005 mug shot that until a two days ago was the single image the media had of Zimmerman.


What does the hospital report say?
 
redgreen5 said:
Doesn't matter; the story about Martin hitting Zimmerman is pretty obviously wrong.  Oh, and by the way:  the unnamed "news sources" in the Faux News piece?  Conveniently unnamed.  Citation by innuendo:  typical for Fox, and quickly believed by conservatives who willingly lap it up.

Your bias against all things conservative is downright pitiful.  Fox News has some concern for truth and safety, unlike your beloved, albeit pathetic, abc news.  A witness came forward with a claim that he saw a person fitting Zimmerman's description on the ground moaning and crying for help right before the shot.  And the pathetic reporter at pathetic abc non-news NAMED the witness.  He was just a 13-year-old kid and they NAMED him.  But the reporter did NOT NAME the 16-year-old girl who claims she was on the phone with Martin.  Get it?  Pathetic liberal reporter for pathetic abc non-news protected the name of the girl.  But the kid who claims he saw something that corroborated Zimmerman's account gets outed.  I repeat....get it?  That is a warning to anyone who steps forward as a witness to the event----you will be named IF what you saw backs up Zimmerman.  I say KUDOS to Fox News for being responsible by not reporting the name of either of the witnesses.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239#.T3e7BXhMhlI
 
[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]
What does the hospital report say?
[/quote]

You tell us. 

All I can tell you is that the funeral director who prepared Trayvon Martin's body says that there are no signs of a fight on his corpse:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/

CBS News) SANFORD, Florida - The defense of George Zimmerman rests on a violent fight that he said occurred before he fired the shot that killed Trayvon Martin.


Zimmerman is neighborhood watch volunteer at the center of the case. It was almost five weeks that Martin, the unarmed 17-year-old, was killed after Zimmerman found him suspicious. We don't know what happened immediately immediately before the shot was fired. CBS News correspondent Mark Strassman has new evidence in the case.


Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.


"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."


Now before all the rednecks hyperventilate over the words "covered up", note that he means that in preparing the body for a public viewing and burial, they would have done what all undertakers do:  attempt to clean the body up and make it presentable for family and viewing audience.

 
[quote author=JrChurch]
Your bias against all things conservative is downright pitiful.[/quote]

Only against the stupid stuff. Which is quite a bit of conservatism.

[quoet] Fox News has some concern for truth and safety, unlike your beloved, albeit pathetic, abc news.[/quote]

1. Fox has no such concern.
2. I don't have any love for ABC.  They're just better than FOX.

  A witness came forward

1. We'll deal with your "witness" in a moment.

2. Assuming that Martin hit Zimmerman - so what?  If an older, larger man had been following someone and suddenly confronted them, it's entirely reasonable to take a swing at him.  You rednecks wouldn't tolerate someone following you and stalking you; why should anyone else tolerate it?  Oh, that's right - because Trayvon Martin is black and he should know the rules are different.

And apparently there was nothing more than Zimmerman's wounded pride, since the video clearly shows no broken nose, bruises, scalp lacerations, etc.:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/40131_Video-_George_Zimmerman_on_Night_of_Trayvon_Killing_-_No_Injuries

Why in the world would Zimmerman stalk this kid? Why in the world would he lie about what happened?  Maybe because he has a history of aggressiveness?  A history that got him fired before?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-lost-job-party-security-guard-aggressive-ex-co-worker-article-1.1053223?pgno=1

And the fact that he had a pre-existing felony record for assault against a police officer and domestic violence?
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer

Zimmerman was a loose cannon, trying to find a target to shoot.    Only your racism keeps you from seeing that.

Oh, and as for Austin Brown?  Your teen witness?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-george-zimmerman-killing-trayvon-martin-grainy-proves-lawyer-article-1.1052713


A 13-year-old who is one of two key witnesses in the Trayvon Martin shooting felt
 
redgreen5 said:
    Only your racism keeps you from seeing that.

Since you have pre-judged my thoughts and decided to label me a racist (with absolutely no clue as to my ethnicity), let me speak to you for a moment so that you may have my own words to use against me.

I have no idea what Zimmerman's motives were, so I can not comment on that.  But I can comment on his actions.  I think it was foolish and reckless of him to follow anyone in the dark in that situation.  If he was concerned about a stranger prowling, he should have let the police handle it.  He contributed to a needless tragedy and loss of life.   

My racist rant is over. 
 
redgreen5 said:
[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]
What does the hospital report say?

You tell us. 

All I can tell you is that the funeral director who prepared Trayvon Martin's body says that there are no signs of a fight on his corpse:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/

CBS News) SANFORD, Florida - The defense of George Zimmerman rests on a violent fight that he said occurred before he fired the shot that killed Trayvon Martin.


Zimmerman is neighborhood watch volunteer at the center of the case. It was almost five weeks that Martin, the unarmed 17-year-old, was killed after Zimmerman found him suspicious. We don't know what happened immediately immediately before the shot was fired. CBS News correspondent Mark Strassman has new evidence in the case.


Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.


"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."


Now before all the rednecks hyperventilate over the words "covered up", note that he means that in preparing the body for a public viewing and burial, they would have done what all undertakers do:  attempt to clean the body up and make it presentable for family and viewing audience.
[/quote]

Martin's body wasn't the one in question, so my original question stands.  Don't try and evade it, just say you don't know.  Ah, but you libs always think you know more than you do. 
 
[quote author=JrChurch]

    Only your racism keeps you from seeing that.

Since you have pre-judged my thoughts [/quote]

LOL and everyone here has been doing the same to me. So don't expect any sympathy, buddy.  Sauce for the goose.....

And from looking around at threads that were here before I joined the forums, it seems like prejudging the other participant is pretty much how things run on this board.  There's a lot of baiting topics that people throw out, looking to start an argument.  And then people act surprised when they find what they were looking for. Oh, well. 

I have no idea what Zimmerman's motives were, so I can not comment on that.  But I can comment on his actions.  I think it was foolish and reckless of him to follow anyone in the dark in that situation.  If he was concerned about a stranger prowling, he should have let the police handle it.  He contributed to a needless tragedy and loss of life.   

On this we agree.
 
[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]Martin's body wasn't the one in question, so my original question stands.[/quote]

Here's your first hint: I am not obligated to answer all your questions, especially since you don't answer all of mine.  If you have a point to make about a hospital report, then by all means:  make the point.

  Don't try and evade it, just say you don't know. 

I did not evade it.
Just because you're too stupid to understand the forensics of how a fight takes place, don't expect other people to be as intellectually crippled as you are.
If a fight *had* taken place, then there would have been evidence on BOTH bodies of that incident.
The failure to find any such evidence on Martin's body is strong exculpatory evidence that he did not start any such fight, as Zimmerman claims.

Ah, but you libs always think you know more than you do.
I know far more than you do about it. And I'm able to follow the forensic reasoning as well. That puts me at least two steps ahead of you.



 
Here we are back to square one with this wretched case.  Police video shows no signs of injury, unless you look at the enhanced video later and see signs of injury.  Doctored audio tapes, biased reporting, charges of racism, political grand-standing.  Is it really that difficult to accurately report the facts without a slant on either side?  Did either of these young men have involved parents? 

I tell my teen boys that the fact that they are male teens makes them suspect in the eyes of some people.  Get used to it.  Do right.  Don't aggravate a situation by your dress or behavior.  Parenting 101. 
 
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