Is extravagance sinful.

[Tarheel Baptist]

One man's basics might be another man's extravagance.

 

[subllibrm]

I am extravagantly humble.  8)

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Along these lines, something I notice all the time in my IFBx circle...

I didn't grow up churched, or saved, or in a Christian home. So for the first quarter century of my life, I was exposed to none of the mores of the IFB crowd.

When I got saved and immersed into an IFBx lifestyle, I tried to learn the mores of the group so I could be accepted.

One thing I picked up on quickly is that apparently, one should not really have anything nice. If one does have something nice, one should be very, very apologetic for having it and should have a good explanation for why one has something so nice.

>"Is that a new dress?"
>(hangs head and gives a sheepish half smile) "Yes, it is. You see, my grandmother was on her deathbed and she knew I'd never had a new dress, since I of course only shop at the thrift store. She said it was her dying wish for me to have a nice, new dress to wear in her remembrance."

If the explanation is good enough, it 'passes' with a minimum of judgmental clucking on the part of others not so blessed.

I've never seen this guilt over having anything nice in any other circle of people. Perhaps the origin of the guilt is well-intended. We know we are not supposed to be selfish or gluttonous or covetous...and it is sure much easier to not covet when our neighbor has nothing we desire...so if we all keep ourselves and our peers down, then we can all be humble and spiritual and get along just fine.

OH, YOU ARE SO RIGHT!

Every single time you buy your kids new shoes, or ANYTHING!

 

[Binaca Chugger]

If one were to look at what the NT church did with their weekly collection of funds, he would find two categories: benevolence and missions.

One would thus assume that churches today would spend at least the majority of their funds on benevolence and missions.  HOWEVER......  These two are most normally the smallest portion of a church budget and frequently non-existent in a church budget.

While I agree.... can I add something else?

I bothers me that the average missionary seeks deputation funding for years before he ever gets on the mission field. Many of these same missionaries go to countries or areas in which they could legitimately get a job and work like everyone else for living while evangelizing said area. A few years back, it seemed like my area was full of missionaries seeking a free ride. I'm not saying its like that all the time and in every instance. Yet, it does happened.... just my penny.

Most countries will not allow a missionary to get a job.  International laws apply.  There may be some scenarios where you are correct.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

[quote author=christundivided]What a man earns at his own hand.... is his. It has nothing to do with you or what you think about how he should spend it. Those that gather wages from church wages are a different story. They should represent whomever is supporting them and hold to whatever standard they may seem appropriate (to some degree).

Those who earn wages from a church are still earning it (sometimes).  And they shouldn't necessarily represent whomever is supporting them. Perhaps they make better investment decisions. Perhaps they moonlight for extra money.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with you.

I do see a responsibility to live within the "expected norms" of individual churches social structure. When I said "to some degree", I was thinking more along the lines of what you mentioned. While pastors are servants, they are not puppets. Pastors and church members don't always have to agree on every little thing. They should mutually respect each others right to be different and yet be "right with God".
[/quote]

The pastorate should not be considered a job opportunity like sales.  In sales, the more you sell and the more clients you keep happy, the more money you can make.  Pastoring is not a business, it is a ministry and as such should be compensated accordingly.  A pastor should receive enough of a salary to live comfortably within the culture of his community.  A pastor should not be kept poor to be kept humble, nor should he be provided great extravagance as a testimony to the greatness of the church.

 

[pastorryanhayden]

I'm not against having nice things.  I've certainly never tried to give people a hard time over having nice things.  I just dropped a gand and a half on a brick oven for my backyard.  As far as I know, I'm the only guy in Mattoon that has one.  I also use a $2,000 Mac and have more iToys than you can shake a stick at.  I totally agree with one person's comment about using good tools. 
I grew up in an upper middle class family in yuppy land, so I can empathize with those who feel put off because they have nice things. 
On the other hand, I think a pastor who dresses like a millionaire banker (I've known several)is just over the top and probably sends the wrong message to poorer congregants.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]...I do see a responsibility to live within the "expected norms" of individual churches social structure...

...A pastor should receive enough of a salary to live comfortably within the culture of his community...[/quote]

Maybe the pastor is independently wealthy. There isn't anything inherently wrong with being wealthy.

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=Binaca Chugger]...I do see a responsibility to live within the "expected norms" of individual churches social structure...

...A pastor should receive enough of a salary to live comfortably within the culture of his community...

Maybe the pastor is independently wealthy. There isn't anything inherently wrong with being wealthy.
[/quote]

Could be. Nothing wrong as such.

 

[Matthew1323]

I enjoyed this thread. There is much to consider here from the different perspectives.

A sobering verse that comes to mind is Proverbs 21:13. "Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard."