If you could tell Jack Hyles one thing today, what would it be?

[Walt]

I assume that you mean "What would you tell him back in the day with the knowledge that you have now"?

Forget saving America and focus on raising your kids.  In reaching for the wrong one, he failed at both.

He could have scaled back early on and probably not seen much "decline" in his ministry.

You assume here (apparently) that Dave was his only failure.  "Scaling back" would not have done anything about his sinful fascination with another man's wife.  He may not have committed adultery with her, but there seems to be no doubt, on the evidence, that they had a close relationship that interfered with her marriage and his.

In addition, such a post ignores his wrong doctrine, and his un-Biblical philosophy of leadership.

If he had "scaled back", it wouldn't have addressed either of these things.

A true, heart-felt repentance for his pride may have been his best option.

Do you not see your own?  Wow.

I'm not sure where you got your assumption from.

Which particular assumption?

In my estimation all of his kids were failures, as was he as a father.

And maybe if he stayed home more, he wouldn't have gotten so much adulation and maybe would have stayed straighter.  Maybe.

Maybe.  Or maybe not.
From my observations of the man, he had a huge ego; he enjoyed being the one in charge, and the adulation.  He was not the servant leader that the Scripture speaks of.  I was at a conference when he was blasphemously called "God" by the sycophant introducing him, and there was no rebuke of such blasphemy - he enjoyed it.  This incident, more than anything else, really opened my eyes to the idolatry that was going about concerning this man.

I don't know if he had an affair; emotionally or physically.  Neither do you.

As I stated, I don't know if he had a physical relationship with her... but there is plenty of evidence that he deliberately stole her affections from her husband.  A  good pastor would be trying to reconcile a couple that is having marital problems, instead of making the situation worse.

Finally, the affair (whatever kind it was and to whatever extent it was) is not the big issue; he's gone and he will answer to God for what he did or did not do.  The BIG thing is his un-Scriptural leadership teaching that is still affecting churches and Christians today.

 

[Twisted]

Change your suit.  That one looks like you've slept in it for years.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

There is more than one computer at FBCH.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

There is more than one computer at FBCH.

Yes a calculator is a "computer" of sorts...

 

[sword]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.

They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?

Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about? 

 

[LongGone]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.

They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?

Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about?

Was there not a house, plus a horse farm plus a vacation home? During the years I was there Hyles emphasized his modest house in Munster. Said that was all he owned. Hyles bragged about how little the church paid him (sometimes causing problems for pastors who had members who thought they should not make more than Hyles). Never talking about the income generated from Hyles publications or speaking engagements. I was there when Jack and Cindy got married and if recollection serves me correct Jack's father and Hyles split the cost of buying them a house. Not something the average church member can do. The money may have come from Schaap's father. I said I would defer to people who were there. If just appeared that from a far that Schaap did not work to keep the perception of a modest life style that Hyles did keep. I could be wrong.  People who were there have stated that Schaap bought things like the farm at a time when the church as laying off staff.

 

[Walt]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.

They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?

Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about?

Hyles used to boast about his very modest salary with the church, and yet he made millions from his book sales.  I don't have a problem with a man profiting from his own labor, but Hyles either flat-out lied, or certainly never mentioned that he had this huge income. He was generous with people - far beyond what he could afford on his salary.

 

[GeneFrenkle]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.

They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?

Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about?

Hyles used to boast about his very modest salary with the church, and yet he made millions from his book sales.  I don't have a problem with a man profiting from his own labor, but Hyles either flat-out lied, or certainly never mentioned that he had this huge income. He was generous with people - far beyond what he could afford on his salary.

This was a common problem at HAC/FBCH.

Larry Smith would regularly tell how he gave his college salary back to the college.  He never mentioned that he was making a lot of money by owning a construction business.

Pete Cowling bragged on how the HAC salary was far inferior to his UT salary, but didn't mention owning trailer parks and rentals.

Ray Young would brag about what time he got to the college.  He never talked about his nap time in his office during the day.

Daryl Moore talked about how incredibly busy the ministry was.  How many secretaries did he have?  He even told us, "You think you're busy NOW?  Wait until you're in the ministry".

The list goes on...

These type of people really messed up a lot of "preacher boys" who were trying to do right, trying to live by faith, but were fed scenarios that were completely incorrect.

 

[GeneFrenkle]

Gene, No argument here I don't argue with people this is your opinion.

prophet, Thank you I value your opinion.

Fair enough.

 

[BALAAM]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.

They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?

Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about?

Hyles used to boast about his very modest salary with the church, and yet he made millions from his book sales.  I don't have a problem with a man profiting from his own labor, but Hyles either flat-out lied, or certainly never mentioned that he had this huge income. He was generous with people - far beyond what he could afford on his salary.

Now, I always thought he said that he took no money from his books. I heard him say one time how many books he had sold and how much he could make if he even made a dollar from each book. I thought he very publicly said that he took no money from books.

 

[sword]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.
They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?
Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about?

Hyles used to boast about his very modest salary with the church, and yet he made millions from his book sales.  I don't have a problem with a man profiting from his own labor, but Hyles either flat-out lied, or certainly never mentioned that he had this huge income. He was generous with people - far beyond what he could afford on his salary.

This was a common problem at HAC/FBCH.

Larry Smith would regularly tell how he gave his college salary back to the college.  He never mentioned that he was making a lot of money by owning a construction business.

Pete Cowling bragged on how the HAC salary was far inferior to his UT salary, but didn't mention owning trailer parks and rentals.

Daryl Moore talked about how incredibly busy the ministry was.  How many secretaries did he have?  He even told us, "You think you're busy NOW?  Wait until you're in the ministry".

Not sure I get your point. In the first 2 cases I don't see any benefit to bragging how little you make unless you are preparing young people for a life of service. As far as the extra income goes, I see that as a plus. I am impressed greatly with anyone who will burn the candle at both ends to provide for their family. I see someone who refuses to work extra hrs / or an extra job and does not provide their family's needs as a lazy bum. Unless you have health issues you have no excuse for not providing for your family. Their is work to be done everywhere you look, if you have some ambition. I have a friend who works 3 jobs to provide for his family and I admire him for his work ethic. 

In the third case whats wrong with having help. I say take all the help / secretaries you employer or ministry provides.

 

[brainisengaged]

The bragging about how little they made was usually to make a point of how little money meant to them, how they gladly gave up any thought of making money -- such a worldly endeavor -- and instead relied on God to support them. The implication was that we were worthless unless we did the same. But none of us had a second stream of income and could never quite live up the appearance of faith & generosity & selflessness that they preached.

Men who brag about how much work they do...."I do the work of three men" but fail to give credit to all the minions who actually do the bulk of the work FOR them are also setting a very false and hard to follow example.

 

[GeneFrenkle]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.
They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?
Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about?

Hyles used to boast about his very modest salary with the church, and yet he made millions from his book sales.  I don't have a problem with a man profiting from his own labor, but Hyles either flat-out lied, or certainly never mentioned that he had this huge income. He was generous with people - far beyond what he could afford on his salary.

This was a common problem at HAC/FBCH.

Larry Smith would regularly tell how he gave his college salary back to the college.  He never mentioned that he was making a lot of money by owning a construction business.

Pete Cowling bragged on how the HAC salary was far inferior to his UT salary, but didn't mention owning trailer parks and rentals.

Daryl Moore talked about how incredibly busy the ministry was.  How many secretaries did he have?  He even told us, "You think you're busy NOW?  Wait until you're in the ministry".

Not sure I get your point. In the first 2 cases I don't see any benefit to bragging how little you make unless you are preparing young people for a life of service. As far as the extra income goes, I see that as a plus. I am impressed greatly with anyone who will burn the candle at both ends to provide for their family. I see someone who refuses to work extra hrs / or an extra job and does not provide their family's needs as a lazy bum. Unless you have health issues you have no excuse for not providing for your family. Their is work to be done everywhere you look, if you have some ambition. I have a friend who works 3 jobs to provide for his family and I admire him for his work ethic. 

In the third case whats wrong with having help. I say take all the help / secretaries you employer or ministry provides.

You indeed missed the point.  Each time I mentioned how that person was not forthcoming on the extra income.  I have no problem with the second income,  just be honest about it.  I have no problem with a nap time, just be honest about it.

 

[sword]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.
They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?
Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about?

Hyles used to boast about his very modest salary with the church, and yet he made millions from his book sales.  I don't have a problem with a man profiting from his own labor, but Hyles either flat-out lied, or certainly never mentioned that he had this huge income. He was generous with people - far beyond what he could afford on his salary.

This was a common problem at HAC/FBCH.
Larry Smith would regularly tell how he gave his college salary back to the college.  He never mentioned that he was making a lot of money by owning a construction business.
Pete Cowling bragged on how the HAC salary was far inferior to his UT salary, but didn't mention owning trailer parks and rentals.
Daryl Moore talked about how incredibly busy the ministry was.  How many secretaries did he have?  He even told us, "You think you're busy NOW?  Wait until you're in the ministry".

Not sure I get your point. In the first 2 cases I don't see any benefit to bragging how little you make unless you are preparing young people for a life of service. As far as the extra income goes, I see that as a plus. I am impressed greatly with anyone who will burn the candle at both ends to provide for their family. I see someone who refuses to work extra hrs / or an extra job and does not provide their family's needs as a lazy bum. Unless you have health issues you have no excuse for not providing for your family. Their is work to be done everywhere you look, if you have some ambition. I have a friend who works 3 jobs to provide for his family and I admire him for his work ethic. 
In the third case whats wrong with having help. I say take all the help / secretaries you employer or ministry provides.

You indeed missed the point.  Each time I mentioned how that person was not forthcoming on the extra income.  I have no problem with the second income,  just be honest about it.  I have no problem with a nap time, just be honest about it.

I guess I'm completely lost here. Why should or would they tell anyone about their other income making interests. I own a number of appreciable assets & have made a few investments, most of which I have never told any one about. Why would it be anyone's business what other income someone has. You would not pay someone less just because they owned rental properties or a cattle ranch. I think they should keep it to themselves unless they think their personal experience might be a help to their students or others.

 

[Walt]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.
They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?
Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about?

Hyles used to boast about his very modest salary with the church, and yet he made millions from his book sales.  I don't have a problem with a man profiting from his own labor, but Hyles either flat-out lied, or certainly never mentioned that he had this huge income. He was generous with people - far beyond what he could afford on his salary.

This was a common problem at HAC/FBCH.
Larry Smith would regularly tell how he gave his college salary back to the college.  He never mentioned that he was making a lot of money by owning a construction business.
Pete Cowling bragged on how the HAC salary was far inferior to his UT salary, but didn't mention owning trailer parks and rentals.
Daryl Moore talked about how incredibly busy the ministry was.  How many secretaries did he have?  He even told us, "You think you're busy NOW?  Wait until you're in the ministry".

Not sure I get your point. In the first 2 cases I don't see any benefit to bragging how little you make unless you are preparing young people for a life of service. As far as the extra income goes, I see that as a plus. I am impressed greatly with anyone who will burn the candle at both ends to provide for their family. I see someone who refuses to work extra hrs / or an extra job and does not provide their family's needs as a lazy bum. Unless you have health issues you have no excuse for not providing for your family. Their is work to be done everywhere you look, if you have some ambition. I have a friend who works 3 jobs to provide for his family and I admire him for his work ethic. 
In the third case whats wrong with having help. I say take all the help / secretaries you employer or ministry provides.

You indeed missed the point.  Each time I mentioned how that person was not forthcoming on the extra income.  I have no problem with the second income,  just be honest about it.  I have no problem with a nap time, just be honest about it.

I guess I'm completely lost here. Why should or would they tell anyone about their other income making interests. I own a number of appreciable assets & have made a few investments, most of which I have never told any one about. Why would it be anyone's business what other income someone has. You would not pay someone less just because they owned rental properties or a cattle ranch. I think they should keep it to themselves unless they think their personal experience might be a help to their students or others.

I agree with you, but this is straying from the point.  See 'brainisengaged' post above -- they were implying (by boasting of their modest means) that it was because of their gigantic faith in God and the great works that they did for Him that they could get by on a near-poverty salary -- as 'brainisengaged' said above, they implied that everyone should be able to get by on as little money/as little sleep as they, the Great Ones did.  I used to hear a HAC pastor boast about how much energy he had and how he could work rings around the younger ones, only later to find out that he occasionally took entire days off and spent them resting.  I don't fault a man for that, but I do fault him with the impression that he never needed such down time.  It drove starry-eyed worshippers to try to emulate such things, and they frequently shipwrecked themselves or their home life.

As has been stated, just be honest.

 

[GeneFrenkle]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.
They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?
Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about?

Hyles used to boast about his very modest salary with the church, and yet he made millions from his book sales.  I don't have a problem with a man profiting from his own labor, but Hyles either flat-out lied, or certainly never mentioned that he had this huge income. He was generous with people - far beyond what he could afford on his salary.

This was a common problem at HAC/FBCH.
Larry Smith would regularly tell how he gave his college salary back to the college.  He never mentioned that he was making a lot of money by owning a construction business.
Pete Cowling bragged on how the HAC salary was far inferior to his UT salary, but didn't mention owning trailer parks and rentals.
Daryl Moore talked about how incredibly busy the ministry was.  How many secretaries did he have?  He even told us, "You think you're busy NOW?  Wait until you're in the ministry".

Not sure I get your point. In the first 2 cases I don't see any benefit to bragging how little you make unless you are preparing young people for a life of service. As far as the extra income goes, I see that as a plus. I am impressed greatly with anyone who will burn the candle at both ends to provide for their family. I see someone who refuses to work extra hrs / or an extra job and does not provide their family's needs as a lazy bum. Unless you have health issues you have no excuse for not providing for your family. Their is work to be done everywhere you look, if you have some ambition. I have a friend who works 3 jobs to provide for his family and I admire him for his work ethic. 
In the third case whats wrong with having help. I say take all the help / secretaries you employer or ministry provides.

You indeed missed the point.  Each time I mentioned how that person was not forthcoming on the extra income.  I have no problem with the second income,  just be honest about it.  I have no problem with a nap time, just be honest about it.

I guess I'm completely lost here. Why should or would they tell anyone about their other income making interests. I own a number of appreciable assets & have made a few investments, most of which I have never told any one about. Why would it be anyone's business what other income someone has. You would not pay someone less just because they owned rental properties or a cattle ranch. I think they should keep it to themselves unless they think their personal experience might be a help to their students or others.

Indeed.  But it is dishonest to talk about the one and not the other...in order to present an allusion that is not true.

 

[brainisengaged]

It's just like those weight-loss testimonials that claim the weight loss was achieved simply by taking this one supplement. Look at me! I lost 50 pounds by taking Gingko Biloba! But they fail to mention they also went on a calorie-restricted diet and undertook a rigorous exercise program.  False advertising.  The sin of omission.

How about: "For me, to do the work of the  ministry is so important that I gladly accept inadequate pay. It's a choice I made about how I wish to do my Christian walk through this life, and while I do need to supplement my income in other ways in order to support my family,  it is worth it to me in order to do what I get to do."

They never spoke that way. They were never real.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

I would tell Bro. Hyles that the Cubs won the World Series, which means the pope is about ready to become a Baptist.

 

[Bruh]

One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

In both Hyles and Schapps cases, what are some examples of "Rich living". We know Schapps father has/had money so some could have come from him.
They both traveled but the host ministries covered all those expenses and gave a love gift. Both had publication money, but they did write the books. Both took some very nice vacations but they often publicly told who paid for the trips. Neither lived in a mansion or drove exotic cars or had a fancy jet. Where are the riches you talk about?
Not defending all the things they may have done wrong just wondering what was the indication of riches you talk about?

Hyles used to boast about his very modest salary with the church, and yet he made millions from his book sales.  I don't have a problem with a man profiting from his own labor, but Hyles either flat-out lied, or certainly never mentioned that he had this huge income. He was generous with people - far beyond what he could afford on his salary.

This was a common problem at HAC/FBCH.
Larry Smith would regularly tell how he gave his college salary back to the college.  He never mentioned that he was making a lot of money by owning a construction business.
Pete Cowling bragged on how the HAC salary was far inferior to his UT salary, but didn't mention owning trailer parks and rentals.
Daryl Moore talked about how incredibly busy the ministry was.  How many secretaries did he have?  He even told us, "You think you're busy NOW?  Wait until you're in the ministry".

Not sure I get your point. In the first 2 cases I don't see any benefit to bragging how little you make unless you are preparing young people for a life of service. As far as the extra income goes, I see that as a plus. I am impressed greatly with anyone who will burn the candle at both ends to provide for their family. I see someone who refuses to work extra hrs / or an extra job and does not provide their family's needs as a lazy bum. Unless you have health issues you have no excuse for not providing for your family. Their is work to be done everywhere you look, if you have some ambition. I have a friend who works 3 jobs to provide for his family and I admire him for his work ethic. 
In the third case whats wrong with having help. I say take all the help / secretaries you employer or ministry provides.

You indeed missed the point.  Each time I mentioned how that person was not forthcoming on the extra income.  I have no problem with the second income,  just be honest about it.  I have no problem with a nap time, just be honest about it.

I guess I'm completely lost here. Why should or would they tell anyone about their other income making interests. I own a number of appreciable assets & have made a few investments, most of which I have never told any one about. Why would it be anyone's business what other income someone has. You would not pay someone less just because they owned rental properties or a cattle ranch. I think they should keep it to themselves unless they think their personal experience might be a help to their students or others.

It appears that you my friend are being dishonest about this discussion.

No one said it was wrong to have a second or third or fourth stream of income.

Wrong is when I say, I give back 90 percent of my income that the college pays me and only live on 10 percent. Making it sound like I ONLY live on the 10 percent that is left over. When if I told the ENTIRE truth I would say AND I also have 3 more streams of income that really really really help me to give back the 90 percent the college pays me.

 

[sword]

I was not trying to be dishonest or change the message. Walt's post made it crystal clear & I understand completely the point that was being made now. Not sure why someone would think it made them look big, because they made so little.