If you could tell Jack Hyles one thing today, what would it be?

bruinboy said:
So, is hell as hot as you thought it would be?
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Provocative    /sarcasm

While so many love to inaccurately throw out the "Judge Not" scripture whenever they want to silence someone righteously judging sin, here is the very case in which it applies.  YOU NOR I EVER HAVE A RIGHT TO PRONOUNCE THE PUNISHMENT ON SOMEONE.  That is taking God's throne and sitting on it yourself.  You have made yourself, god. That is exactly what "judge not less ye be judged" means.     
 
TidesofTruth said:
bruinboy said:
So, is hell as hot as you thought it would be?
Click to expand...
Provocative    /sarcasm

While so many love to inaccurately throw out the "Judge Not" scripture whenever they want to silence someone righteously judging sin, here is the very case in which it applies.  YOU NOR I EVER HAVE A RIGHT TO PRONOUNCE THE PUNISHMENT ON SOMEONE.  That is taking God's throne and sitting on it yourself.  You have made yourself, god. That is exactly what "judge not less ye be judged" means.   
Click to expand...

Oh, please.

Read your Bible. Pray and get some wisdom from God.

The Scriptures are FULL of passages exhorting us to judge righteous judgment.

Jesus told us to Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
I Cor 14 exhorts the hearings of preaching to judge whether or not the preaching is according to Scripture
I John tells us to try the spirits.

We are not to judge by appearance or personal likes or dislikes; we are to judge by Scripture.

The fact is that much of what Hyles taught (explicitly or by example) was un-Scriptural.

 
Walt said:
TidesofTruth said:
bruinboy said:
So, is hell as hot as you thought it would be?
Click to expand...
Provocative    /sarcasm

While so many love to inaccurately throw out the "Judge Not" scripture whenever they want to silence someone righteously judging sin, here is the very case in which it applies.  YOU NOR I EVER HAVE A RIGHT TO PRONOUNCE THE PUNISHMENT ON SOMEONE.  That is taking God's throne and sitting on it yourself.  You have made yourself, god. That is exactly what "judge not less ye be judged" means.   
Click to expand...

Oh, please.

Read your Bible. Pray and get some wisdom from God.

The Scriptures are FULL of passages exhorting us to judge righteous judgment.

Jesus told us to Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
I Cor 14 exhorts the hearings of preaching to judge whether or not the preaching is according to Scripture
I John tells us to try the spirits.

We are not to judge by appearance or personal likes or dislikes; we are to judge by Scripture.

The fact is that much of what Hyles taught (explicitly or by example) was un-Scriptural.
Click to expand...
Why don't you study your Bible a bit and learn what Matthew 7 is teaching.  Judge sin, Yes (that is what I said) Judge Teaching,  Judge Doctrine.  But you are not to pronounce what the punishment should be for anyone.  To suggest a man punishment is or should be Hell who professed Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour is an unrighteous judgment.  The exact unrighteous judgment found in Mathew 7.  Who made you god and said you get to change the covenants or suggest that you have the right to judge the sincerity of one's conversion.  An awful lot of people here love to judge a lot of other's people's relationship with Christ. 
 
TidesofTruth said:
Walt said:
TidesofTruth said:
bruinboy said:
So, is hell as hot as you thought it would be?
Click to expand...
Provocative    /sarcasm

While so many love to inaccurately throw out the "Judge Not" scripture whenever they want to silence someone righteously judging sin, here is the very case in which it applies.  YOU NOR I EVER HAVE A RIGHT TO PRONOUNCE THE PUNISHMENT ON SOMEONE.  That is taking God's throne and sitting on it yourself.  You have made yourself, god. That is exactly what "judge not less ye be judged" means.   
Click to expand...

Oh, please.

Read your Bible. Pray and get some wisdom from God.

The Scriptures are FULL of passages exhorting us to judge righteous judgment.

Jesus told us to Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
I Cor 14 exhorts the hearings of preaching to judge whether or not the preaching is according to Scripture
I John tells us to try the spirits.

We are not to judge by appearance or personal likes or dislikes; we are to judge by Scripture.

The fact is that much of what Hyles taught (explicitly or by example) was un-Scriptural.
Click to expand...
Why don't you study your Bible a bit and learn what Matthew 7 is teaching.  Judge sin, Yes (that is what I said) Judge Teaching,  Judge Doctrine.  But you are not to pronounce what the punishment should be for anyone.  To suggest a man punishment is or should be Hell who professed Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour is an unrighteous judgment.  The exact unrighteous judgment found in Mathew 7.  Who made you god and said you get to change the covenants or suggest that you have the right to judge the sincerity of one's conversion.  An awful lot of people here love to judge a lot of other's people's relationship with Christ.
Click to expand...

Apparently, I was wrong; I didn't realize you were posting in response to the (sarcastic) comment about hell.  Yes, I completely agree that while we can make educated guesses, we don't know the relationship another person has with Christ, and if the comment about hell was serious, it was wrong judging.  I thought from your post that you were one of the "don't criticize my preacher because it's sin" crowd.

I do think that you missed the sarcasm in the hell comment; that's why I didn't take it seriously.
 
"You would do a lot of good if you would come clean."
 
Smellin Coffee said:
I would tell him, "I'm sorry." When I left because of all the corruption, I no doubt acted in brashness and hate toward him. Though there is seeming logic for me to do so, I think rather than leaving with tears of compassion, I left with a hidden agenda to destroy him.

Though I still disagree with just about everything as I did back then, and still despise the hurt and hypocrisy that emanated from that place, I think my attitude toward him personally was wrong. I would tell him I now forgive him for hurting me and my family and I would ask for his forgiveness for my behavior.
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Wow.  Christianity 301
 
I assume that you mean "What would you tell him back in the day with the knowledge that you have now"?

Forget saving America and focus on raising your kids.  In reaching for the wrong one, he failed at both.

He could have scaled back early on and probably not seen much "decline" in his ministry.
 
GeneFrenkle said:
I assume that you mean "What would you tell him back in the day with the knowledge that you have now"?

Forget saving America and focus on raising your kids.  In reaching for the wrong one, he failed at both.

He could have scaled back early on and probably not seen much "decline" in his ministry.
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You assume here (apparently) that Dave was his only failure.  "Scaling back" would not have done anything about his sinful fascination with another man's wife.  He may not have committed adultery with her, but there seems to be no doubt, on the evidence, that they had a close relationship that interfered with her marriage and his.

In addition, such a post ignores his wrong doctrine, and his un-Biblical philosophy of leadership.

If he had "scaled back", it wouldn't have addressed either of these things.

A true, heart-felt repentance for his pride may have been his best option.
 
Walt said:
GeneFrenkle said:
I assume that you mean "What would you tell him back in the day with the knowledge that you have now"?

Forget saving America and focus on raising your kids.  In reaching for the wrong one, he failed at both.

He could have scaled back early on and probably not seen much "decline" in his ministry.
Click to expand...

You assume here (apparently) that Dave was his only failure.  "Scaling back" would not have done anything about his sinful fascination with another man's wife.  He may not have committed adultery with her, but there seems to be no doubt, on the evidence, that they had a close relationship that interfered with her marriage and his.

In addition, such a post ignores his wrong doctrine, and his un-Biblical philosophy of leadership.

If he had "scaled back", it wouldn't have addressed either of these things.

A true, heart-felt repentance for his pride may have been his best option.
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Do you not see your own?  Wow.

I'm not sure where you got your assumption from.  In my estimation all of his kids were failures, as was he as a father.

And maybe if he stayed home more, he wouldn't have gotten so much adulation and maybe would have stayed straighter.  Maybe.

I don't know if he had an affair; emotionally or physically.  Neither do you.
 
Cindy was not a failure....she is a excellent example of a Godly lady!! She did nothing wrong....
 
Sherryh said:
Cindy was not a failure....she is a excellent example of a Godly lady!! She did nothing wrong....
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Agreed.
 
Sherryh said:
Cindy was not a failure....she is a excellent example of a Godly lady!! She did nothing wrong....
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Cindy taught , among many false doctrines, that it is the wife's fault if the husband isn't satisfied.

One has to wonder if life has corrected this for her.

earnestly contend

 
prophet, Are you serious I've never listened to her speak but that is wrong its a 2 way road...I hope she didn't claim herself... :(
 
Sherryh said:
prophet, Are you serious I've never listened to her speak but that is wrong its a 2 way road...I hope she didn't claim herself... :(
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Not meant as an argument, but I find it hard to reconcile your "she never did anything wrong" with "I've never listened to her speak". 

And I would disagree with the premise that she did nothing wrong anyway.  I'm not lumping her in with Little Jack's (and by extrapolation Littler Jack) sin, but there were obviously problems there.  IMHO, Hyles' failures as a father had to have carried on to his youngest, her actions, and her marriage.  Disclaimer: Again, I am in no way blaming her for Little Jack's sins.
 
Sherryh said:
prophet, Are you serious I've never listened to her speak but that is wrong its a 2 way road...I hope she didn't claim herself... :(
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I pretty sure she did blame herself, up until she heard the verbiage of the texts and letters and all the blasphemy, in court.
Then she filed for a divorce so fast, that our heads spun.

Jack believed that garbage so much, that he tried to blame his "job" and "illness" and "the girl's advances" in Court.
The Prosecutor set him straight on that, telling him that his only problem was his insatiable "lust, hubris and ego".
This is a direct result of Hammond's false doctrines of 'child rearing' and 'the wife's role'.

My wife and I took a class from the Schaaps, when we were engaged, where they both taught separately and together.
In this class, Jack revealed that  Cindy would grille him after his counseling sessions, and ask him all kinds of awkward questions about his reactions to sexually explicit situations that he heard about during these sessions.
Both my wife and I were stunned that she had a serious pervert on her hands, but thought it was her responsibility to correct it in him.

No, Cindy never "ruined her testimony".

But her marriage is a testimony to the many false doctrines of Hyles and the likes.

earnestly contend
 
Gene, No argument here I don't argue with people this is your opinion.

prophet, Thank you I value your opinion.
 
One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.
 
LongGone said:
but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.
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Do NOT let Osteen read this.
 
LongGone said:
One other thing that I wonder how Cindy fits into the picture. Schaap appeared to spend and use the wealth attained in the ministry in a much more flagrant manor than Hyles. I viewed this far a away so I would defer to people who were there. Cindy appeared to enjoy the spoils that this position offered her. I believe Hyles had the wealth but gave the appearance of a man and family who lived modestly. I don't have an issue with people in the ministry making an appropriate salary but the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.
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I agree with your statement that the ministry should not be a tool to get rich.

Having said that...

Hyles was just better at hiding it... he could get up and piously state that his salary was only $17,000 a year as pastor, but his income was huge - consider the income from Hyles Publications; he took all the proceeds himself, claiming to the church that it was "his" ministry, but to the IRS he said it was a church ministry.  Book sales were bringing in millions a year.  The family was definitely wealthy.
 
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