If Jackie-Boy showed up at your church?

[Walt]

It just occurred to me...and someone please chime in with the details (because I don't know), but what church did the pervert Dave Hyles attend after his disgrace, and did he have a position?

He went to a few churches, and was given a position, and got into trouble again, is what I understand.

 

[IFB X-Files]

His father-n-law made a huge mistake.

Sounds like good ol' pop is more worried about providing for his daughter.

LOL!  You nailed it!  We all know blood is thicker than doctrine.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Just curious, 2 questions for the pastors out there...

If/when Jackie-Boy gets out of the big house, what role, if any, could he legitimately fill in the church?

And, if Jackie-Boy showed up at your church, how would you react?

I'm not a pastor, but I will put in my 2 cents.  My prayer is that JS will serve the shortest sentence that the state allows for his crime.  I hope that he is kept safe in prison.  I hope that he repents of his sin and pride.  I hope God uses him in prison to spread His Word.

With that being said, the day will come when he is released.  I believe he needs to attend a church with a pastor who "specializes" in restoration.  JS needs to just be a normal member for a time period (I don't know how long that will be). 

I believe JS can still be used of God.  Some good starting points would be ushering, singing in the choir, etc.  I believe a time will come when he could teach Sunday School, perhaps to an older group of folk.  As far as full-time ministry goes, I don't know that it would ever be wise.  Perhaps working for an organization like Rock of Ages or Reformers Unanimous would be a good fit.

In my opinion, humility will be key.  Just my thoughts!

I could not disagree more.  He is to be counted as a heathen and a publican.  Let him first show fruits of repentance.  Still, he should NEVER be given a position of authority in a church.  PERIOD.

So if JS repents and humbles himself and proves himself over time, he is to be cast off forever??????

If he was truly repentant and humble he wouldn't need any position of any type of leadership.

If he was truly repentant and humble would you allow him near your daughter or grand daughter?

However his legal efforts speak of neither humility or repentance, imho.

 

[fishinnut]

Just curious, 2 questions for the pastors out there...

If/when Jackie-Boy gets out of the big house, what role, if any, could he legitimately fill in the church?

And, if Jackie-Boy showed up at your church, how would you react?

For all those good folks who would want to extend the right foot of fellowship.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Just curious, 2 questions for the pastors out there...

If/when Jackie-Boy gets out of the big house, what role, if any, could he legitimately fill in the church?

And, if Jackie-Boy showed up at your church, how would you react?

I'm not a pastor, but I will put in my 2 cents.  My prayer is that JS will serve the shortest sentence that the state allows for his crime.  I hope that he is kept safe in prison.  I hope that he repents of his sin and pride.  I hope God uses him in prison to spread His Word.

With that being said, the day will come when he is released.  I believe he needs to attend a church with a pastor who "specializes" in restoration.  JS needs to just be a normal member for a time period (I don't know how long that will be). 

I believe JS can still be used of God.  Some good starting points would be ushering, singing in the choir, etc.  I believe a time will come when he could teach Sunday School, perhaps to an older group of folk.  As far as full-time ministry goes, I don't know that it would ever be wise.  Perhaps working for an organization like Rock of Ages or Reformers Unanimous would be a good fit.

In my opinion, humility will be key.  Just my thoughts!

I could not disagree more.  He is to be counted as a heathen and a publican.  Let him first show fruits of repentance.  Still, he should NEVER be given a position of authority in a church.  PERIOD.

So if JS repents and humbles himself and proves himself over time, he is to be cast off forever??????

C'mon Raider.  I know the topic of church discipline was taboo at HAC, especially with all the effort to hide criminal sin.  Still, surely you have done some Bible study on your own since receiving your BS degree from HAC with all the right pertaining thereto.  Don't be afraid of God's proclomations, even though they contradict what we saw in action at our alma mater.




(for those who are wondering, a HAC BS degree is Bachelor of Science - not.......)

 

[RAIDER]

Just curious, 2 questions for the pastors out there...

If/when Jackie-Boy gets out of the big house, what role, if any, could he legitimately fill in the church?

And, if Jackie-Boy showed up at your church, how would you react?

I'm not a pastor, but I will put in my 2 cents.  My prayer is that JS will serve the shortest sentence that the state allows for his crime.  I hope that he is kept safe in prison.  I hope that he repents of his sin and pride.  I hope God uses him in prison to spread His Word.

With that being said, the day will come when he is released.  I believe he needs to attend a church with a pastor who "specializes" in restoration.  JS needs to just be a normal member for a time period (I don't know how long that will be). 

I believe JS can still be used of God.  Some good starting points would be ushering, singing in the choir, etc.  I believe a time will come when he could teach Sunday School, perhaps to an older group of folk.  As far as full-time ministry goes, I don't know that it would ever be wise.  Perhaps working for an organization like Rock of Ages or Reformers Unanimous would be a good fit.

In my opinion, humility will be key.  Just my thoughts!

I could not disagree more.  He is to be counted as a heathen and a publican.  Let him first show fruits of repentance.  Still, he should NEVER be given a position of authority in a church.  PERIOD.

So if JS repents and humbles himself and proves himself over time, he is to be cast off forever??????

C'mon Raider.  I know the topic of church discipline was taboo at HAC, especially with all the effort to hide criminal sin.  Still, surely you have done some Bible study on your own since receiving your BS degree from HAC with all the right pertaining thereto.  Don't be afraid of God's proclomations, even though they contradict what we saw in action at our alma mater.




(for those who are wondering, a HAC BS degree is Bachelor of Science - not.......)

I'm not sure you are following what I am saying.  If Schaap REPENTS and HUMBLES himself and proves himself over a period of time, cannot he serve the Lord by being an usher, working the sound room, etc.?  Cannot he reach a point where he could teach an older adult SS class?  I'm not talking about him pastoring again.  Could not the Lord use him to help men at RU?  Cound not the Lord use him to help men in prison?

I guess I can't figure out the error of my ways.  Please enlighten me.

 

[kaba]

It just occurred to me...and someone please chime in with the details (because I don't know), but what church did the pervert Dave Hyles attend after his disgrace, and did he have a position?

I only know of two churches in Florida he attended, Patebald's Dad's (old) church, and I believe either Tom Neal. He did his damage and then moved on.

 

[no value]

Because JS is so radioactive (and will continue to be so for a long time), IFB-dom is pretty much done with. It would be intersting to see, upon release from the pokey, if he will gravitate toward the Southern Baptists he disdained.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I'm not sure you are following what I am saying.  If Schaap REPENTS and HUMBLES himself and proves himself over a period of time, cannot he serve the Lord by being an usher, working the sound room, etc.?  Cannot he reach a point where he could teach an older adult SS class?  I'm not talking about him pastoring again.  Could not the Lord use him to help men at RU?  Cound not the Lord use him to help men in prison?

I guess I can't figure out the error of my ways.  Please enlighten me.

Because if he is classified as a sexual predator in the most lenient state in the union.  I don't believe he is allowed in a facility that ministers to youth or children, which is a church.  Hence, he would be in violation of Rom 13, and his parole.  I believe the church would also be mandated by law to inform every family that a sexual predator was in their midst.

The real problem with your thinking is trying to find a way to give him a position.  If one is really humbled and repentant, he will do what God wills for him and testify of God's redemption to others without a position.  JS, or any other Christian, needs not a position, but a submission.

 

[Fresh Air]

I don't think anybody has yet asked the real question. What makes any of us think he will want to go to church? The men with which I'm familiar, who blew up their life in some similarly spectacular fashion, haven't darkened the doors of a church for decades.

 

[prophet]

I don't think anybody has yet asked the real question. What makes any of us think he will want to go to church? The men with which I'm familiar, who blew up their life in some similarly spectacular fashion, haven't darkened the doors of a church for decades.

Good point.

He seemed "I don't care" and "catch me please", at the end.

He didn't get arrested, he got rescued.

But he has that bug....he thinks he is just so important. 
Another by-product of the 'Us 4 and no more' family.

Anyway, the real kick is....some greedy IFB sheepscalper will put the paddles on FrankenJack, believing it will somehow boost his creds to be known as the restorer of all things Jack.
And so the cycle will continue.

 

[RAIDER]

The real problem with your thinking is trying to find a way to give him a position.  If one is really humbled and repentant, he will do what God wills for him and testify of God's redemption to others without a position.  JS, or any other Christian, needs not a position, but a submission.

I am not trying to find a way to give him a "position".  I am trying to explore the possibility that God may use him again in some way some time in the future.  Yes, being an usher is a "position".  Working in the sound booth is a "position".  Ministering to RU men is a "position".  Ministering to those in prison is a "position".

So what you are saying is that Schaap will never again be able to legally enter a church building? 

 

[bgwilkinson]

The real problem with your thinking is trying to find a way to give him a position.  If one is really humbled and repentant, he will do what God wills for him and testify of God's redemption to others without a position.  JS, or any other Christian, needs not a position, but a submission.

I am not trying to find a way to give him a "position".  I am trying to explore the possibility that God may use him again in some way some time in the future.  Yes, being an usher is a "position".  Working in the sound booth is a "position".  Ministering to RU men is a "position".  Ministering to those in prison is a "position".

So what you are saying is that Schaap will never again be able to legally enter a church building?

I would like to see the law cited the says that Schaap can not ever enter a public gathering that includes children.

 

[cast.sheep]

Some Christians are BRUTAL! Restoration is entirely possible for any believer through the amazing grace and mercy of God. Other people's sins are always worse than our own in our own eyes. I am amazed at the people who are certain that JS was never saved. Only God can know that. I am NOT a JS sympathizer. Having spent 30 years of my life there, I despise what he became and how he used and abused people...including myself and those close to me. However, I believe in the miraculous grace of God. Do I want JS walking into MY church??? Quite honestly, no. Perhaps God needs to work on MY heart regarding that scenario. But, IF JS were to humbly look for a place to serve...not BE served...I am certain that God would use him. Not counseling teenagers, or anyone else for that matter...but there are plenty of other ways to humbly serve The Lord. IMHO


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[AmazedbyGrace]

I could not disagree more.  He is to be counted as a heathen and a publican.  Let him first show fruits of repentance.  Still, he should NEVER be given a position of authority in a church.  PERIOD.

Wait a minute.  That's pretty harsh.  I know a guy that got into porn in a big way and almost destroyed his marriage.  His father-in-law then ordained him and made him the youth pastor.  Shouldn't JS have the same chance?

No. The father-in-law mentioned in this story made a huge error. He showed no discernment and failed to guard the flock of God.

And no, Jack Schaap should not be allowed in any leadership position in the church. Thank God the state will prohibit him from having contact with minors, cause church leadership probably won't.

What a sad excuse for leadership many churches have!

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

It just occurred to me...and someone please chime in with the details (because I don't know), but what church did the pervert Dave Hyles attend after his disgrace, and did he have a position?

Dave Hyles did much damage pastoring at Miller Road Baptist Church in TX.

 

[RAIDER]

Some Christians are BRUTAL! Restoration is entirely possible for any believer through the amazing grace and mercy of God. Other people's sins are always worse than our own in our own eyes. I am amazed at the people who are certain that JS was never saved. Only God can know that. I am NOT a JS sympathizer. Having spent 30 years of my life there, I despise what he became and how he used and abused people...including myself and those close to me. However, I believe in the miraculous grace of God. Do I want JS walking into MY church??? Quite honestly, no. Perhaps God needs to work on MY heart regarding that scenario. But, IF JS were to humbly look for a place to serve...not BE served...I am certain that God would use him. Not counseling teenagers, or anyone else for that matter...but there are plenty of other ways to humbly serve The Lord. IMHO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What she said.

 

[RAIDER]

The real problem with your thinking is trying to find a way to give him a position.  If one is really humbled and repentant, he will do what God wills for him and testify of God's redemption to others without a position.  JS, or any other Christian, needs not a position, but a submission.

I am not trying to find a way to give him a "position".  I am trying to explore the possibility that God may use him again in some way some time in the future.  Yes, being an usher is a "position".  Working in the sound booth is a "position".  Ministering to RU men is a "position".  Ministering to those in prison is a "position".

So what you are saying is that Schaap will never again be able to legally enter a church building?

I would like to see the law cited the says that Schaap can not ever enter a public gathering that includes children.

Me too.

 

[kaba]

While I understand that we all are sinners and we all do things wrong (taken from the phoster club 1.2.3 pray after me!!!) I am tired of the IFBX crowd judging others who are not as "righteous" as they are, and make fun of and criticise what others do or dont do. But then when they "fall", we have to forgive them and move on...forgive because Christ forgave...we all make mistakes!!!!

I hope Jack Schaap does his full court appointed punishment. There is much he can do in the chapel in the prison to continue some type of "ministry". He needs to stop using the blame game and own up to what he did. His wining is showing his lack of integrity! The Lord can still use him, after he gets out but I dont think he should ever be in a place of leadership.

I would not want to attend church with him. I dont hate the guy, but I have no respect for him what so ever!!

 

[sword]

Could J.S. restore his relationship with God?  If he humbles himself and is truly sorry, God will forgive him & restore fellowship. (e.g. David, King of Israel & Peter & Samson. )

Should he ever pastor, I would say "NO". Should he ever be entrusted with young people in any way? I would say "NO".

I'm just reminded if it were not for the Grace Of God I could do something just as stupid. I can't help but think of the price a little pride & lack of self control cost him. May we all be reminded of 1 Peter 5:8.