How many?

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Gringo said:
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I don't think the scandals involving Dave Hells were "made up". But I do suspect that they've been exaggerated (quantity of). I'm sorry. I just do. But I agree with all of you that for the things he did do, he absolutely should have been held accountable - for the rapes and murder of the child.


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I don’t remember, was Dave present the day the child was run over?

I recall he was not home at the time and Brenda was driving the SUV when the child was killed. I believe she said the child (5 year old) got out of his car seat & exited the passenger side rear door and walked around the SUV when she was not watching. It seems very careless of the mom, but it’s hard for me to believe any mom could run their toddler over on purpose. Do you think Dave was involved in a conspiracy with his wife to kill their child? What was the motive?

It is so tragic and so sad regardless of what actually happened. If I killed one of my children or grandchildren by accident or through careless negligence (possible Involuntary manslaughter) I could not live with myself & I would need weekly therapy for the rest of my life
 
I'm sorry. I think I've misunderstood.

I thought the child had broken bones from a baby and died from abuse.

I doubt the mother INTENTIONALY ran over her son.

I haven't followed these people enough to participate in a conversation, apparently.

I thought the little boy run over was their son born between them and that the one the DA was talking about was HER son and David's stepson. When I was referring to murder, I was referring to abuse of the first one per what the DA said.
 
Gringo said:
I'm sorry. I think I've misunderstood.

I thought the child had broken bones from a baby and died from abuse.

I doubt the mother INTENTIONALY ran over her son.

I haven't followed these people enough to participate in a conversation, apparently.

I thought the little boy run over was their son born between them and that the one the DA was talking about was HER son and David's stepson. When I was referring to murder, I was referring to abuse of the first one per what the DA said.
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Gringo - y’all might be correct. To be perfectly honest, before joining this forum, I don’t think I had ever even heard of Hyles-Anderson College, much less Dave Hyles. The only reason I searched that story is because it was mentioned it happened in Florida, which is my adopted state.
 
Gringo said:
I'm sorry. I think I've misunderstood.

I thought the child had broken bones from a baby and died from abuse.

I doubt the mother INTENTIONALY ran over her son.

I haven't followed these people enough to participate in a conversation, apparently.

I thought the little boy run over was their son born between them and that the one the DA was talking about was HER son and David's stepson. When I was referring to murder, I was referring to abuse of the first one per what the DA said.
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Hmmm. I thought these were two different children and two different incidents.
 
HukNduck said:
Gringo - y’all might be correct. To be perfectly honest, before joining this forum, I don’t think I had ever even heard of Hyles-Anderson College, much less Dave Hyles. The only reason I searched that story is because it was mentioned it happened in Florida, which is my adopted state.
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It just shows that Hyles and his crowd were only SOME of independent fundamental Baptists.

My church never spoke of him or his church either.

But if you listen to "The Preacher Boys", Hyles was
the founders of IFB. But he wasn't.


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Gringo said:
But if you listen to "The Preacher Boys", Hyles was
the founders of IFB.
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Them "Preacher Boys" probably never heard of Bob Jones or John R. Rice. Or else they write them off as liberals...
 
Gringo said:
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It just shows that Hyles and his crowd were only SOME of independent fundamental Baptists.

My church never spoke of him or his church either.

But if you listen to "The Preacher Boys", Hyles was
the founders of IFB.


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Yes, that was one of the sloppy unfounded claims that told me the documentary was not overly concerned with accurate representation of history and facts in some cases. My church was founded by a man who went to college in Texas, and that college was Arlington Baptist, which was found by J Frank Norris. Norris is often credited in someways with some credible form of contribution to the founding of Baptist fundamentalism in America. He proceeded Hyles by a significant timeframe.


A master pulpiteer, Dr. Norris was a fierce opponent of Communism, Catholicism, liberalism, and evolution and was acclaimed to be one of the twentieth century’s outstanding leaders of Bible fundamentalism. In 1939, with the aid of Dr. Louis Entzminger, he organized the Bible Baptist Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas, an institution which excelled in the training of young preachers. Many of the graduates of this school have built some of the largest churches in America.”
Link“
 
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Ekklesian said:
'Abuse' is an easy accusation.
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There is a generally accepted thing in the Psychological world called Clergy Abuse, and one aspect of it is when any person in pastor leadership has adultery with a person under them. I know that there are exceptions, but I tend to agree with that analysis.
 
Gringo said:
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It just shows that Hyles and his crowd were only SOME of independent fundamental Baptists.

My church never spoke of him or his church either.

But if you listen to "The Preacher Boys", Hyles was
the founders of IFB.


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That is a conception among the Hyles followers. Robert Ketchum was probably the leading founder of Separatist Baptist Fundamentalism in the North, The GARBC was originally a Fundamentalist group. It has drifted now.
 
ALAYMAN said:
A master pulpiteer, Dr. Norris was a fierce opponent of Communism, Catholicism, liberalism, and evolution and was acclaimed to be one of the twentieth century’s outstanding leaders of Bible fundamentalism.
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And he shot that guy in his office.
 
sword said:
I don’t remember, was Dave present the day the child was run over?

I recall he was not home at the time and Brenda was driving the SUV when the child was killed. I believe she said the child (5 year old) got out of his car seat & exited the passenger side rear door and walked around the SUV when she was not watching. It seems very careless of the mom, but it’s hard for me to believe any mom could run their toddler over on purpose. Do you think Dave was involved in a conspiracy with his wife to kill their child? What was the motive?

It is so tragic and so sad regardless of what actually happened. If I killed one of my children or grandchildren by accident or through careless negligence (possible Involuntary manslaughter) I could not live with myself & I would need weekly therapy for the rest of my life
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No sir, I don't think Mr Hyles was involved in a conspiracy with his wife to kill their child. I just think it was a tragic accident.
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ALAYMAN said:
Yes, that was one of the sloppy unfounded claims that told me the documentary was not overly concerned with accurate representation of history and facts in some cases. My church was founded by a man who went to college in Texas, and that college was Arlington Baptist, which was found by J Frank Norris. Norris is often credited in someways with some credible form of contribution to the founding of Baptist fundamentalism in America. He proceeded Hyles by a significant timeframe.


A master pulpiteer, Dr. Norris was a fierce opponent of Communism, Catholicism, liberalism, and evolution and was acclaimed to be one of the twentieth century’s outstanding leaders of Bible fundamentalism. In 1939, with the aid of Dr. Louis Entzminger, he organized the Bible Baptist Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas, an institution which excelled in the training of young preachers. Many of the graduates of this school have built some of the largest churches in America.”
Link“
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Ransom said:
And he shot that guy in his office.
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norris was also one of the driving forces behind prohibition in the 1930s...... yet he also sold boot leg liquor from the pulpit one sunday....😲 . ....

law enforcement agents had complained they couldn;t arrest the local boot leggers coz they didn;t know who they were ... and that nobody would give up the names - and if they did tell there was never any evidence to back it up..... ..... so norris told the agents to come to church the next sunday and he would provide both the names and the evidence..... when the service started norris began holding up bottles of whiskey one by one and telling who had he bought it from... and then asked - "who will give me my money back?".... people in the congregaton would raise their hands to pledge the money - and when they did he would yell out "sold" and throw the bottle down into a huge trough full of bricks and shatter it.... ...... atf agents sat quietly and wrote down names... and then began making arrests the next week.....

my dads grandfather and grandmother were members of j frank norris church in fort worth texas.... he heard a lot of norris stories from his grandfather - things he had personally witnessed... and then he told us some of them over the years..... .later on they were also members of the church john rice started in shamrock texas..... ..his grandfather said it was very obvious that jack hyles was trying to copy j frank norris.... ..that was where hyles got the showmanship and tendency to create a circus like atmosphere in some of his services.... but he also said jack hyles could not pull it off as successfully as norris did.... ...norris was an innovator... but the best hyles could do was be an immitator..... and not a very good one.....
 
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Gringo said:
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That he is looking for his next prey, I certainly agree. And while it's too late for him to be prosecuted for his crimes in his 20's, now that he is approaching 70, everyone truly concerned about what he ALLEDGEDLY did to all of those women, ought to be watching this character with a fine tooth comb . . . he and all of his buddies over there "in the barn".

I say "alledgedly" because I tend to react to this like I do about religion in general. I just have a hard time believing all of this just because alot of people say it's true.

As a young man he probably did do the things accused of him by the one or two. But to believe that a pudgy, baldheaded man with glasses was some type of stud muffin who devoured woman after woman, all within one church (I'm speaking of Garland), is just a little too much for me. I think it's more legend than fact. Was that church truly that morally depraved that 30 or so women were in a Hyles groupie group with no thought of their own husbands - all in one church . I have serious doubts. Maybe he did commit adultry there with some blind woman with no cooth or self worth in that church, but with multiple women? I have serious doubts. Accusations against him, sure. Fact, I'm not so sure.

I think the attention should be put on what the DA (I think he was) was concerned about concerning his young step son who died. The man seemed to have EVIDENCE of broken bones, etc and what an absolute miscarriage of justice that his man has walked free all of these years.

I sure wish they would go after him for the poor little boy whose bones showed to have been broken while in his care and later died.
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gringo..... as i have said before... (and as my dad wrote on the older forums many times several years ago)..... my dad was there with his family at miller road church when all those things happened... i learned about it from him after i joined the fff and saw people talking about it..... .... he was related to several staff members there who were among those who saw the photographic evidence, and also knew the names of those involved.. .. it is not merely legend.... the story of what happened at that church is entirely fact

and it was not 30 women at miller road.... nobody knows the actual number but it was only a small handfull of women at the church itself.... the rest were non-members..... . brenda stevens... the mother of brent stevens - (the murdered child) ..was one of the church members involved.. .... and she left her husband and the church to go with dave hyles when he got kicked out .... .... most of the other women were non-members who had been referred to dave hyles for counselling... ..he took them into his confidence - convinced them to trust him... then exploited their vulnerabilites to have affairs with them..... ..the reason the whole thing was discoverd and not doubted by anyone close to that church was that hyles took obscene pictures of himself with some of the women.. ..women that were members of the church.... those pictures are what was discovered inside the briefcase.... ...

i have no idea whether any of those women were blind or not... i don;t know any of them myself or any names either - other than the name brenda stevens - who was already mentioned... i don;t know hyles either..... but i can;t imagine him losing sleep over the revelation that you don;t find him attractive.... ... you might not be aware of this but with women attaction works in a very different way.... with men physical appearace might sometimes be all there is to it.... .(plenty of them certainly act like it is)... .... but with women a mans physical appearance might be on the bottom of the list of things that draw us to someone.. ..... personality - charisma - charm... self confidence and a manner or style that demonstrates that confifdence... ability to relate to people that appears genuine... etc... .. . things of that nature weigh much heavier than appearance alone...and unfortunately those are also the things predatory preachers become good at faking and learn to use to their advantage..... especially at churches where the preacher has been put on a pedestal and worshipped....
 
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FWIW, Forum history buffs can check me out on this, but if I recall correctly, when Texas was still a Mexican territory, the Mexican government invited US citizens to help settle the territory but with the stipulation that each settler was required to convert to Catholicism and be baptized.
 
aleshanee said:
gringo..... as i have said before... (and as my dad wrote on the older forums many times several years ago)..... my dad was there with his family at miller road church when all those things happened... i learned about it from him after i joined the fff and saw people talking about it..... .... he was related to several staff members there who were among those who saw the photographic evidence, and also knew the names of those involved.. .. it is not merely legend.... the story of what happened at that church is entirely fact

and it was not 30 women at miller road.... nobody knows the actual number but it was only a small handfull of women at the church itself..... brenda stevens... the mother of brent stevens - (the murdered child) ..was one of them... and she left her husband and the church to go with dave hyles when he got kicked out .... .... the rest of the women were non-members who had been referred to dave hyles for counselling... ..he took them into his confidence - convinced them to trust him... then exploited their vulnerabilites to have affairs with them..... ..the reason the whole thing was discoverd and not doubted by anyone close to that church was that hyles took obscene pictures of himself with some of the women.. ..women that were members of the church.... those pictures are what was discovered inside the briefcase.... ...

i have no idea whether any of those women were blind or not... i don;t know any of them myself or any names either - other than the name brenda stevens - who was already mentioned... i don;t know hyles either..... but i can;t imagine him losing sleep over the revelation that you don;t find him attractive.... ... you might not be aware of this but with women attaction works in a very different way.... with men physical appearace might sometimes be all there is to it.... .(plenty of them certainly act like it is)... .... but with women a mans physical appearance might be on the bottom of the list of things that draw us to someone.. ..... personality - charisma - charm... self confidence and a manner or style that demonstrates that confifdence... ability to relate to people that appears genuine... etc... .. . things of that nature weigh much heavier than appearance alone...and unfortunately those are also the things predatory preachers become good at faking and learn to use to their advantage..... especially at churches where the preacher has been put on a pedestal and worshipped....
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Yeah, I'm sorry about the "blind" comment and his being unattractive. Thanks for the insight that women can be attracted to other attributes. I just have a hard time seeing what SO MANY (apparently) saw in him. I guess that was unkind on my part. Sorry.

Anyway, for some reason, I thought it was around 30, not "a handful". I'm glad to know that. That he took "obscene pictures of himself with some of the women . .women that were members of the church" blows my mind. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!

This is a tragedy no matter how many there were. But as I said in another post, this is MORE a tragedy for a helpless little boy than for all of the others combined, in my opinion.

Once again, I apologize for my comments about his physical appearance. I'm just THANKFUL no one here can see MY appearance (that's why I use a picture of a dog to represent me online).
 
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