How many?

[Jo]

It seems abundantly clear to me that by the time Dave H. became pastor at Miller Road in Garland, there were many people who knew many things about him.

How many girls/women do you think there were? I guess the timeline doesn't really matter - before, during, after.

Why do you think pedophiles do what they do?

 

[FSSL]

Why do you think pedophiles do what they do?

It is impossible to put a percentage on this, but I wouldn't doubt they were all abused as children.

 

[Sherryh]

I believe it could be 100's.................

 

[Bob Jones V]

It seems abundantly clear to me that by the time Dave H. became pastor at Miller Road in Garland, there were many people who knew many things about him.

How many girls/women do you think there were? I guess the timeline doesn't really matter - before, during, after.

Why do you think pedophiles do what they do?

I remember reading several books and many articles on DH and I am pretty sure that there were 17 women at the church in Texas. We know for sure of 2 in Hammond. There have been accusations by at least a dozen more. So, I am guessing at the least 30 women were abused. Any time clergy has an affair with a church member, it is clergy abuse. Their position of power precludes a consensual relationship.

 

[sword]

I remember reading several books and many articles on DH and I am pretty sure that there were 17 women at the church in Texas. We know for sure of 2 in Hammond. There have been accusations by at least a dozen more. So, I am guessing at the least 30 women were abused. Any time clergy has an affair with a church member, it is clergy abuse. Their position of power precludes a consensual relationship.

This is a slippery slope to say every adult who has a affair with a pastor was abused. It is not uncommon for women to be attracted to men in positions of power and to target them. I think grown adults must all take some responsibility for their actions, even when suduced. Many men in the workplace must resist the advances of women every day they go to work. It's essential we make it clear we are Christians and that we are not interested and are firmly commited to your marrages.

That being said that in no way excuses someone in authority who uses that position to target people. They should be identified and fired. Judges normally increase sentences when someone uses their authority over others to commit a crime.

 

[Bob Jones V]

This is a slippery slope to say every adult who has a affair with a pastor was abused. It is not uncommon for women to be attracted to men in positions of power and to target them. I think grown adults must all take some responsibility for their actions, even when suduced. Many men in the workplace must resist the advances of women every day they go to work. It's essential we make it clear we are Christians and that we are not interested and are firmly commited to your marrages.

That being said that in no way excuses someone in authority who uses that position to target people. They should be identified and fired. Judges normally increase sentences when someone uses their authority over others to commit a crime.

I agree that it is a slippery slope.

 

[Jo]

This is a slippery slope to say every adult who has a affair with a pastor was abused. It is not uncommon for women to be attracted to men in positions of power and to target them. I think grown adults must all take some responsibility for their actions, even when suduced. Many men in the workplace must resist the advances of women every day they go to work. It's essential we make it clear we are Christians and that we are not interested and are firmly commited to your marrages.

That being said that in no way excuses someone in authority who uses that position to target people. They should be identified and fired. Judges normally increase sentences when someone uses their authority over others to commit a crime.

That's one way of looking at it. If a woman in the same church in Garland had that many affairs with different men, what would you call that?

There are so many mixed standards I remember from my HAC days and afterward. While I was a student at HAC, Bro. Hyles had one of those meetings with the women at the college where we could ask him questions. One woman who was divorced, stood up and asked Bro. Hyles a question. I think it was about dating. He basically said something to her like, we're not really talking about you. I think he told her she couldn't date while she was there. I was stunned. How many men did you know that were students there who were divorced or had a history of sexual sin? Yet, they didn't have any restrictions that I was aware of.

 

[aleshanee]

That's one way of looking at it. If a woman in the same church in Garland had that many affairs with different men, what would you call that?

There are so many mixed standards I remember from my HAC days and afterward. While I was a student at HAC, Bro. Hyles had one of those meetings with the women at the college where we could ask him questions. One woman who was divorced, stood up and asked Bro. Hyles a question. I think it was about dating. He basically said something to her like, we're not really talking about you. I think he told her she couldn't date while she was there. I was stunned. How many men did you know that were students there who were divorced or had a history of sexual sin? Yet, they didn't have any restrictions that I was aware of.

and what if one or more women in that group of victims was not only a willing accomplice - but also helped the "pastor" find and abuse other women?..... would they still be able to claim they were a victim having been coerced and influence by a powerful man that the deacons and other church leaders had put on a pedestal - and held up as near perfect to the congregation?.....

i use the temr "pastor" loosely as everything i have heard about that man from someone who was actually there and a member of the church at the time, tells me david hyles was no pastor at all... ..and if his father jack ever truly was a pastor, he ceased to be one the day he attempted to cover up his sons offenses by sending him off to destroy another church.... those actions made him not worthy of the labels pastor or brother either one....

but both father and son were very good at deception.... and both good at putting on a good show... .but then circus clowns are good at that too....

 

[sword]

It seems abundantly clear to me that by the time Dave H. became pastor at Miller Road in Garland, there were many people who knew many things about him.

How many girls/women do you think there were? I guess the timeline doesn't really matter - before, during, after.

Why do you think pedophiles do what they do?

I think it's important to make the distinction between someone who targets a young child and a relationship with someone 16 or 17 years old.

Understand I'm not condoning either and both are sinful and wrong but one who targets children clearly has mental issues that may never be able to be corrected. The adult that targets a slightly underage young adult may just have a real problem with self control and lust. Both are a problem but they are likely different underlying issues. !00 years ago most 15, 16 or 17 year olds would be married and sometimes to older men and this was considered normal. Clearly not routine or acceptable today, but still not unusual for that day. This is why almost every state has laws to protect underage young adults.

 

[Jo]

I believe it could be 100's.................

No doubt. Did you hear the part about the Brent Stevens case is still open?

 

[Jo]

I think it's important to make the distinction between someone who targets a young child and a relationship with someone 16 or 17 years old.

Understand I'm not condoning either and both are sinful and wrong but one who targets children clearly has mental issues that may never be able to be corrected. The adult that targets a slightly underage young adult may just have a real problem with self control and lust. Both are a problem but they are likely different underlying issues. !00 years ago most 15, 16 or 17 year olds would be married and sometimes to older men and this was considered normal. Clearly not routine or acceptable today, but still not unusual for that day. This is why almost every state has laws to protect underage young adults.

I think we're talking apples and oranges and straying from the fact that Dave was and, most likely, is a serial adulterer. We all have to answer for our actions. I suspect the women who got involved at Miller Road regret their involvement with him. I doubt that he feels any remorse; however, it's possible he regrets being caught.

My main concern is that some of the families impacted by his actions might be reading some of these posts and feel a wash of shame all over again, and I hate that.

Remember, if a woman is having trouble in her marriage, she is vulnerable. In many cases, she seeks counsel from a "trusted" leader at her church, which she is encouraged to do. She has no idea what she is walking into. She becomes an insect in the spider's web. I imagine in most cases, she did not walk into the web to seduce Dave but that was HIS intention. They both have to live with what happened. My guess is that the women look at life differently than they did prior to meeting Dave.

And Dave, most likely, is looking for his next prey.

 

[Gringo]

I believe it

I think we're talking apples and oranges and straying from the fact that Dave was and, most likely, is a serial adulterer. We all have to answer for our actions. I suspect the women who got involved at Miller Road regret their involvement with him. I doubt that he feels any remorse; however, it's possible he regrets being caught.

My main concern is that some of the families impacted by his actions might be reading some of these posts and feel a wash of shame all over again, and I hate that.

Remember, if a woman is having trouble in her marriage, she is vulnerable. In many cases, she seeks counsel from a "trusted" leader at her church, which she is encouraged to do. She has no idea what she is walking into. She becomes an insect in the spider's web. I imagine in most cases, she did not walk into the web to seduce Dave but that was HIS intention. They both have to live with what happened. My guess is that the women look at life differently than they did prior to meeting Dave.

And Dave, most likely, is looking for his next prey.

.
That he is looking for his next prey, I certainly agree. And while it's too late for him to be prosecuted for his crimes in his 20's, now that he is approaching 70, everyone truly concerned about what he ALLEDGEDLY did to all of those women, ought to be watching this character with a fine tooth comb . . . he and all of his buddies over there "in the barn".

I say "alledgedly" because I tend to react to this like I do about religion in general. I just have a hard time believing all of this just because alot of people say it's true.

As a young man he probably did do the things accused of him by the one or two. But to believe that a pudgy, baldheaded man with glasses was some type of stud muffin who devoured woman after woman, all within one church (I'm speaking of Garland), is just a little too much for me. I think it's more legend than fact. Was that church truly that morally depraved that 30 or so women were in a Hyles groupie group with no thought of their own husbands - all in one church . I have serious doubts. Maybe he did commit adultry there with some blind woman with no cooth or self worth in that church, but with multiple women? I have serious doubts. Accusations against him, sure. Fact, I'm not so sure.

I think the attention should be put on what the DA (I think he was) was concerned about concerning his young step son who died. The man seemed to have EVIDENCE of broken bones, etc and what an absolute miscarriage of justice that his man has walked free all of these years.

I sure wish they would go after him for the poor little boy whose bones showed to have been broken while in his care and later died.
.

 

[Sherryh]

Gringo, This is not made up dh destroyed many lives in Hammond, Garland, Pinellas Park etc. No one is making this up. Talk to the people in Pinellas Park. This has been discuss on the forum before so the information is here look it up.

 

[Jo]

I echo what Sherry said. I had friends in the Garland area when the scandal at Miller Road broke. I spoke with someone on staff after it happened. There was evidence, and the truth was spilling out quickly once the briefcase in the dumpster (aka Pandora's box) was found.

I spoke to two friends who were in seminary around that same time. They were two intelligent men with good reputations. One of them said to me, "Touch not the Lord's anointed."

What Does "Touch Not The Lord's Anointed" Mean?

Evangelicals often use the phrase, “Touch not the Lord's anointed” to mean that it's wrong to ever correct, critique, or criticize pastors.

www.patheos.com

I dropped the subject and felt badly that I brought it up. I don't feel badly anymore.

Of course, adultery is not a crime, but killing or neglecting a child is. That's another story. The case is still open. I hope and pray that justice will be served.

 

[Jo]

There is also a financial tie to so much of this topic. When I talked to a staff member from Miller Road around the time the story broke, she said Dave would take money from one account and put it in another - "robbing Peter to pay Paul" were the exact words. Why not? No one really cared.

Two takeaways for me.

1. A pastor should be held accountable. Our country has a great system - the people elect a president, then there is congress, and finally, a Supreme Court. They all work together to ensure our liberty and freedom. My point is that in a church there should be something similar. The pastor should not be on the highest pedestal. He is human.
2. This topic should be taught at seminaries and definitely acknowledged at HAC. If you don't speak of it, it will continue. It may continue regardless, but for those Bible-believing Baptists - let's live what we say we believe.

I'll stop for now. There are so many emotions tied to this horrible, horrible history.

I need to celebrate my Savior's birth.

 

[abcaines]

I need to celebrate my Savior's birth.

Amen. Me too.

I went through an experience yesterday that doesn't compare with this but still left me very upset. Every time it surfaces in my mind I find myself having to force it out of my thinking and focus on what's important.

 

[Gringo]

Gringo, This is not made up dh destroyed many lives in Hammond, Garland, Pinellas Park etc. No one is making this up. Talk to the people in Pinellas Park. This has been discuss on the forum before so the information is here look it up.

.
I don't think the scandals involving Dave Hells were "made up". But I do suspect that they've been exaggerated (quantity of). I'm sorry. I just do. But I agree with all of you that for the things he did do, he absolutely should have been held accountable - for the rapes and murder of the child.


.

 

[Gringo]

I echo what Sherry said. I had friends in the Garland area when the scandal at Miller Road broke. I spoke with someone on staff after it happened. There was evidence, and the truth was spilling out quickly once the briefcase in the dumpster (aka Pandora's box) was found.

I spoke to two friends who were in seminary around that same time. They were two intelligent men with good reputations. One of them said to me, "Touch not the Lord's anointed."

What Does "Touch Not The Lord's Anointed" Mean?

Evangelicals often use the phrase, “Touch not the Lord's anointed” to mean that it's wrong to ever correct, critique, or criticize pastors.

www.patheos.com

I dropped the subject and felt badly that I brought it up. I don't feel badly anymore.

Of course, adultery is not a crime, but killing or neglecting a child is. That's another story. The case is still open. I hope and pray that justice will be served.

.
By the "briefcase in the dumpster", I think you are referring to the pornographic pictures and swinger ads they found. Was that in Garland? I thought that was in Hammond. Was this part of the Garland scandal?
.

 

[Jo]

It's been over 25 years ago but my memory is some friends called me from Garland after the news came out. They told me someone from the Miller Road church found a briefcase that was thrown in the dumpster. It was filled with pornographic materials. Did Dave throw it away in anger at himself? Did someone else throw it away in disgust? They were photos of women he had been with is my understanding.

I read about all the swinger stuff years later. Sounds like that was never hidden away but was in a magazine.

Some of the events may have merged over time. They're all disgusting to me.

Gringo, as far as the dude not being handsome. I agree; however, during the seventies and eighties, there was a lot of "hero" worship going on. My youth pastor in the early seventies was not handsome, but he had a way of making the girls feel important. The grooming, etc. is all a big part of the spider's web as well.

 

[Gringo]

.
I'd just like to say that biblically speaking, I understand that I'm no better than Mr Hyles. I do not look down on him from a morally superior perch.

He and I each have our "court date" set (biblically speaking)

But I believe there is a difference in battling one's own addictions and between forcing others against their will into things they are not complicit with.

Society's laws must be obeyed for us to have a functioning society.
.