Greek manuscript used by Erasmus for Revelation

[The Rogue Tomato]

Here is another source of original manuscripts that are all on-line at the British Library.
What a fantastic source of great looking easily read manuscripts.

Here is a link to the master list in an xls file. Download it and you have hyper-links to every manuscript in their digital library. Please check it out.

http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/files/bl-ancient-medieval-and-early-modern-digitised-manuscripts-master-list-28.04.15.xls

Yeah, but the English handwriting is terrible.  I can't read a word of it. 

 

[bgwilkinson]

Here is another source of original manuscripts that are all on-line at the British Library.
What a fantastic source of great looking easily read manuscripts.

Here is a link to the master list in an xls file. Download it and you have hyper-links to every manuscript in their digital library. Please check it out.

http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/files/bl-ancient-medieval-and-early-modern-digitised-manuscripts-master-list-28.04.15.xls

Yeah, but the English handwriting is terrible.  I can't read a word of it.

Handwriting can be difficult for one to read especially when they are most accustom to reading perfectly formed machine printing.

With some practice handwriting becomes easier to read although it is a skill that does require a bit of work.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Here is another source of original manuscripts that are all on-line at the British Library.
What a fantastic source of great looking easily read manuscripts.

Here is a link to the master list in an xls file. Download it and you have hyper-links to every manuscript in their digital library. Please check it out.

http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/files/bl-ancient-medieval-and-early-modern-digitised-manuscripts-master-list-28.04.15.xls

Yeah, but the English handwriting is terrible.  I can't read a word of it.

Handwriting can be difficult for one to read especially when they are most accustom to reading perfectly formed machine printing.

With some practice handwriting becomes easier to read although it is a skill that does require a bit of work.

I was joking - it's not English.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Here is another source of original manuscripts that are all on-line at the British Library.
What a fantastic source of great looking easily read manuscripts.

Here is a link to the master list in an xls file. Download it and you have hyper-links to every manuscript in their digital library. Please check it out.

http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/files/bl-ancient-medieval-and-early-modern-digitised-manuscripts-master-list-28.04.15.xls

Yeah, but the English handwriting is terrible.  I can't read a word of it.

Handwriting can be difficult for one to read especially when they are most accustom to reading perfectly formed machine printing.

With some practice handwriting becomes easier to read although it is a skill that does require a bit of work.

I was joking - it's not English.

Well sure, most are Greek but some are Old English, French and Latin. There may be some other languages too, I just looked at a few.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Here is another source of original manuscripts that are all on-line at the British Library.
What a fantastic source of great looking easily read manuscripts.

Here is a link to the master list in an xls file. Download it and you have hyper-links to every manuscript in their digital library. Please check it out.

http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/files/bl-ancient-medieval-and-early-modern-digitised-manuscripts-master-list-28.04.15.xls

Yeah, but the English handwriting is terrible.  I can't read a word of it.

Handwriting can be difficult for one to read especially when they are most accustom to reading perfectly formed machine printing.

With some practice handwriting becomes easier to read although it is a skill that does require a bit of work.

I was joking - it's not English.

Well sure, most are Greek but some are Old English, French and Latin. There may be some other languages too, I just looked at a few.

I only looked at one.  I think it was latin.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Here is the commentary of Andreas on the Johannesapokalypse

Hat tip Digital Collections of Augsburg University Library

Link to GA2814

http://www.nbn-resolving.de/urn:nbn:de:bvb:384-uba003076-1

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Here is the commentary of Andreas on the Johannesapokalypse

Hat tip Digital Collections of Augsburg University Library

Link to GA2814

http://www.nbn-resolving.de/urn:nbn:de:bvb:384-uba003076-1

Ach du lieber!  Und it hass an illustration, too!

 

[logos1560]

Are there any significant claims in the thread?

You and other KJV-only advocates avoid and dodge the significant facts and points in this thread. 

KJV-only advocates make it obvious that their opinions rest upon no clearly-stated, consistent, just textual measures.

 

[Steven Avery]

All straw man stuff.

Just show one quote of mine that is inconsistent with any facts regarding the editions of Erasmus, Stephanus and Bezae.

And I frequently write about the development of the Reformation Bible editions.

One quote.

 

[logos1560]

We are not reading the Erasmus 1st edition.  Not even the Erasmus 5th edition.    After that came Stephanus and Beza editions.


everybody knows Erasmus first edition had significant flaws.

Do you yourself read and understand any edition of the Greek New Testament? 

Do you merely assume that your own unsupported speculation or claim is correct since you provide no sound evidence for it? 

You clearly have not demonstrated that everybody knows what all the significant flaws with Erasmus' first edition of the Greek text were or that you even know what they were.  Why don't you name and identify all of them?

If your claim that you made is correct, which KJV-only book or which KJV-only source actually points out every one of the flaws in Erasmus' first edition of the Greek text?

You also have not demonstrated that even Erasmus himself or that Stephanus and Beza knew every one of the flaws that were present in Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation based on one imperfect Greek manuscript, which was not purely or completely Byzantine in its text.  Where have you actually demonstrated that Stephanus and Beza knew and corrected all the flaws in Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation? 

 

[praise_yeshua]

And I frequently write about the development of the Reformation Bible editions.

Where?

 

[Steven Avery]

If your claim that you made is correct, which KJV-only book or which KJV-only source actually points out every one of the flaws in Erasmus' first edition of the Greek text?

Rick, how could you be so dumb as to put in bold a nonsense straw man claim?

Steven

 

[Steven Avery]

Where?

So far, mostly on Facebook, and I plan to put some on the PureBible forum.  Later, perhaps wider.

Greek and Latin contributed to the pure Reformation Bible - TR-AV - Oct, 2014
https://www.facebook.com/groups/purebible/permalink/682558538502705/

Erasmus, the early Reformation era, the rcc, the Complutensian Polyglot and the Council of Trent - Dec, 2014
(this builds on an FFO thread)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/purebible/permalink/725944600830765/

Steven
.

 

[logos1560]

KJV-only advocates have not demonstrated that even Erasmus himself or that Stephanus and Beza knew every one of the flaws that were present in Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation based on one imperfect Greek manuscript, which was not purely or completely Byzantine in its text. 

Where have any KJV-only advocates clearly demonstrated that Stephanus and Beza knew and corrected all the actual flaws that were found in Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation? 

What actual consistent just textual measures  and what Greek manuscript evidence did Stephanus and Beza use to make changes and corrections to Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation?

 

[subllibrm]

KJV-only advocates have not demonstrated that even Erasmus himself or that Stephanus and Beza knew every one of the flaws that were present in Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation based on one imperfect Greek manuscript, which was not purely or completely Byzantine in its text. 

Where have any KJV-only advocates clearly demonstrated that Stephanus and Beza knew and corrected all the actual flaws that were found in Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation? 

What actual consistent just textual measures  and what Greek manuscript evidence did Stephanus and Beza use to make changes and corrections to Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation?

Now you know why Ruckman believes in space aliens. It gives him a perfect answer to where all the "pure" manuscripts disappeared to.

 

[Steven Avery]

the book of Revelation ...corrected all the actual flaws that were found in Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation? 

Rick, you have this in reverse.  Which verses do you accuse of being wrong in the Geneva and AV?  If you are not accusing any verses of error, the issue is over.

Steven

 

[logos1560]

KJV-only advocates have not demonstrated that even Erasmus himself or that Stephanus and Beza knew every one of the flaws that were present in Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation based on one imperfect Greek manuscript, which was not purely or completely Byzantine in its text. 

Where have any KJV-only advocates clearly demonstrated that Stephanus and Beza knew and corrected all the actual flaws that were found in Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation? 

What actual consistent just textual measures  and what Greek manuscript evidence did Stephanus and Beza use to make changes and corrections to Erasmus' Greek text of the book of Revelation?

Rick, you have this in reverse.  Which verses do you accuse of being wrong in the Geneva and AV?  If you are not accusing any verses of error, the issue is over.

KJV-only advocates are the ones who attempt to argue in reverse and to assume based on fallacies.  English translations are not the standard for evaluating and trying printed editions of the Greek New Testament Text.

As usual, KJV-only advocates use diversary tactics, trying to change the subject and trying to avoid and dodge the actual facts concerning the Greek manuscript evidence and concerning the imperfect varying Textus Receptus editions.  They will not answer important questions and will not provide any sound evidence for their speculations, assumptions, or claims

 

[Steven Avery]

Rick, stop whining and try to say something relevant.

Are there any verses where you accuse the Geneva and AV of error in Revelation?

 

[Ransom]

Rick, stop whining and try to say something relevant.

Steve, stop whining and pretending to play moderator.

You don't get to be the arbiter of what's "relevant" here. Put a sock in it.

 

[logos1560]

Concerning manuscript 1’ [min. 2814], Robert Waltz wrote:  “Noteworthy primarily as the single Greek manuscript used by Erasmus to prepare the Apocalypse of his 1516 New Testament” (Encyclopedia of NT Textual Criticism, p. 1037).  Isbon Beckwith wrote:  “Cursive no. 1, of the 12th or 13th century containing the Apocalypse, with the commentary of Andreas, is of particular interest, since it was the only Greek Ms. which Erasmus had for the Apocalypse in his first edition of the Greek Testament (1516)“ (Apocalypse of John, p. 412).  John David Michaelis as translated by Herbert Marsh noted:  “Erasmus relates in his defence adversus Stunicam, that he used only one single manuscript of the Revelation for his edition of the New Testament” (Introduction to the NT, Vol. II, p. 312). 

Thomas Holland wrote:  “The manuscript Codex 1r used by Desiderius Erasmus in the production of his Greek New Testament is missing the last six verses of Revelation chapter twenty-two” (Crowned With Glory, p. 168).  This manuscript is one of two to four dozen of the book of Revelation that include the commentary of Andreas of Caesarea in Cappadocia.  The Greek text of this manuscript is sometimes described as the “Andreas text” because the manuscripts with Andreas’s commentary have some readings said to characterize or distinguish them from purely Byzantine Greek manuscripts.  In a new translation and his commentary on the book of Revelation, Craig Koester distinguished between the text used in the commentary by Andreas and the Byzantine text (p. 149).  Josef Schmid classified the Andreas text as one of the four main text types or families of text for the Apocalypse.  Edward Hutton identified “the Andreas text with the great Western family” (Atlas of Textual Criticism, p. 47). 

At times in this worn manuscript of the book of Revelation used by Erasmus and his copyist, it has been said that it was difficult to distinguish the commentary from the text.  Henry Alford observed:  “The text in the MS. is mixed up with the commentary of Andreas” (Greek Testament, Vol. 4, p. 263, footnote 8 ).  In this manuscript, Thomas J. Conant noted:  “The text and commentary alternate, without any break in the line” (Baptist Quarterly, April, 1870, p. 135).