Fessing Up

[myeyesareopen]

Okay, obviously I go to FBC Hammond but only reluctantly at this point because my husband is pretty locked in and he's really, really happy there both with his ministry and with the new pastor.

I can't get past the things that bother me, and my husband tells me I really need to calm down about certain people.

I do for awhile, but then I hear something else or a new incident occurs and all the ugly feelings rear their head, stronger than ever.

But I know it is bad form for me to come on here and vent and name names while under my own cloak of anonymity.

I don't know how this whole situation will ever be solved in my own mind and heart, but I truly repent of being a cowardly namer of names.

So, after this post has had time to be seen by anyone who might be interested, I am going to delete my account and try to stop wallowing in negativity.

I stand by everything I have ever said or implied, but I don't respect myself for not using my real name when I say it. I can't use my real name, in my opinion, so it follows that I should not be saying anything.

Selah.

 

[kaba]

I think it is good to vent, and I think it is also good to have support from others.  Will be praying for you, even though I dont know your name!!

 

[Bravo]

The thing is though when you feel you don't have a voice what other recourse is there? People say to never criticize leadership but if leadership is wrong then something should be said. The whole of American history started from standing up to bad leadership, the Jews left Egypt in part because of how leadership treated them. I dunno,...

On the other hand I can see you wanting to honor your husband.

 

[PappaBear]

It may be good to step away, at least for awhile.  But your concerns regarding FBCH and the people there are valid.  Your eyes are open, let's all hope they stay wide open.  Try not to be hard on your husband, that place has long encouraged people to keep their head in the sand.  And to be honest, with all that does go on, many are hopeful that if we don't look, maybe it will all just go away.

But understand, the problem is not in the people.  It is the system.  Faces will change, and the new pastor will bring in some superficial changes just like Jack Schaap did when he took over for Hyles.  But as long as the system exists that is willing to avoid issues, hide & cover sin instead of confession and repentance, and seat authority in one man or a limited group of men instead of trusting the church as a hole, the problems will be on endless repeat.

Blessings to you.  I sincerely hope the best for you.

 

[Sherryh]

I've been on the forum for along time.. don't ever be afraid to speak what you believe....you want to always honor your husband..... some advice my pastor gave me years ago never write anything you would be ashamed of on the forum...

 

[Bruh]

Okay, obviously I go to FBC Hammond but only reluctantly at this point because my husband is pretty locked in and he's really, really happy there both with his ministry and with the new pastor.

I can't get past the things that bother me, and my husband tells me I really need to calm down about certain people.

I do for awhile, but then I hear something else or a new incident occurs and all the ugly feelings rear their head, stronger than ever.

But I know it is bad form for me to come on here and vent and name names while under my own cloak of anonymity.

I don't know how this whole situation will ever be solved in my own mind and heart, but I truly repent of being a cowardly namer of names.

So, after this post has had time to be seen by anyone who might be interested, I am going to delete my account and try to stop wallowing in negativity.

I stand by everything I have ever said or implied, but I don't respect myself for not using my real name when I say it. I can't use my real name, in my opinion, so it follows that I should not be saying anything.

Selah.

That being said, yeah this is not a good place for you.

 

[bgwilkinson]

The thing is though when you feel you don't have a voice what other recourse is there? People say to never criticize leadership but if leadership is wrong then something should be said. The whole of American history started from standing up to bad leadership, the Jews left Egypt in part because of how leadership treated them. I dunno,...

The advice of not criticizing leadership is the koolaid that is most vile and effective at promoting coverups and secret and not so secret sin in the camp.
I Tim 5:19,20 has the answer. You have your 2 or 3 witness, then do the investigation and then if it proves true we are to, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear".
We never did that with DH or Bro. Hyles and the list is almost endless.
Bro. Hyles spent much time protecting himself in his preaching, I'm sure you know.

We would cover it up, deny it and attack those that could not stand the sin. What we did to Bro. Godfrey is nothing less than Satanic.

This Koolaid has been served in giant glasses for the past 40 years. I for one will not drink any more of it.

We need more FBCH members who will speak out, not be cowed and not leave the church. Continue to serve the Lord and exhibit the fruit of the Spirit.

If you must leave, we understand. You will be missed.

 

[Bravo]

.

 

[sword]

I have heard my entire life if you are critical or question the man of God then God will bring judgment on you. In IFB circles this is the Cardinal sin to which there is no return.

1 Samuel Chapter 268 Then said Abishai to David, God hath delivered thine enemy into thine hand this day: now therefore let me smite him, I pray thee, with the spear even to the earth at once, and I will not smite him the second time.
9 And David said to Abishai, Destroy him not: for who can stretch forth his hand against the LORD'S anointed, and be guiltless?
10 David said furthermore, As the LORD liveth, the LORD shall smite him; or his day shall come to die; or he shall descend into battle, and perish.
11 The LORD forbid that I should stretch forth mine hand against the LORD'S anointed: but, I pray thee, take thou now the spear that is at his bolster, and the cruse of water, and let us go.

I contend we no longer have Kings or Prophets, anointed by God. Clearly we should respect & care for our pastor, but do these verses apply to them.  Are we forbidden to point out where they error and if they are in sin. Should we point out areas that need to be improved in a ministry or remain silent?

 

[bgwilkinson]

I have heard my entire life if you are critical or question the man of God then God will bring judgment on you. In IFB circles this is the Cardinal sin to which there is no return.

1 Samuel Chapter 268 Then said Abishai to David, God hath delivered thine enemy into thine hand this day: now therefore let me smite him, I pray thee, with the spear even to the earth at once, and I will not smite him the second time.
9 And David said to Abishai, Destroy him not: for who can stretch forth his hand against the LORD'S anointed, and be guiltless?
10 David said furthermore, As the LORD liveth, the LORD shall smite him; or his day shall come to die; or he shall descend into battle, and perish.
11 The LORD forbid that I should stretch forth mine hand against the LORD'S anointed: but, I pray thee, take thou now the spear that is at his bolster, and the cruse of water, and let us go.

I contend we no longer have Kings or Prophets, anointed by God. Clearly we should respect & care for our pastor, but do these verses apply to them.  Are we forbidden to point out where they error and if they are in sin. Should we point out areas that need to be improved in a ministry or remain silent?

Pastors are clearly chosen by men not by God. Both in Tim and Titus we have the written requirements for selecting a man to serve as a pastor.

We do not even find where we are to ask God to approve the pastor. If one follows God's Word the man selected as pastor will be, by definition and description as given in Tim and Titus, the man God has selected. God gave us written instructions for choosing a pastor. Why do we complicate the matter with our own wisdom?

Those who use the story of David to set up pastors as beyond criticism are twisting the scriptures for their own selfish purposes.

Pastors are not political leaders as were Israeli kings.

 

[Baptist Bishop]

I challenge any in spiritual authority to read this passage in its context ... "Touch Not" refers to the evil of KILLING the King!  David most CERTAINLY confronts King Saul and challenges him to make things right (1 Samuel 26:18 & following).  Thus, while it would be wrong to kill the preacher, we certainly have a wonderful example of biblical confrontation.

 

[Fresh Air]

Okay, obviously I go to FBC Hammond but only reluctantly at this point because my husband is pretty locked in and he's really, really happy there both with his ministry and with the new pastor.

I can't get past the things that bother me, and my husband tells me I really need to calm down about certain people.

I do for awhile, but then I hear something else or a new incident occurs and all the ugly feelings rear their head, stronger than ever.

But I know it is bad form for me to come on here and vent and name names while under my own cloak of anonymity.

I don't know how this whole situation will ever be solved in my own mind and heart, but I truly repent of being a cowardly namer of names.

So, after this post has had time to be seen by anyone who might be interested, I am going to delete my account and try to stop wallowing in negativity.

I stand by everything I have ever said or implied, but I don't respect myself for not using my real name when I say it. I can't use my real name, in my opinion, so it follows that I should not be saying anything.

Selah.

Two things here I completely agree with: First, I think it is generally a good idea to stand behind what you write/say with your own name. When I first came to the FFF over ten years ago I made a conscious decision to use my own name, for a variety of reasons. Obviously, I still find those reasons compelling, so I also just as obviously largely agree with you. Second, I think you are right to seek to honor your husband in this way. I can understand why you don't necessarily agree with him in regards to these matters, but I believe you are following Scripture in what you are seeking to do, and that God will honor you for it.

...OTOH, I disagree that anonymous authors are never right/appropriate/helpful. One of the best things that ever happened to this country was our Constitution, and one of the primary reasons it was adopted over vocal opposition was a series of ANONYMOUS articles published in newspapers we now know of as 'The Federalist Papers.' In a situation which calls for a whistleblower often it is perfectly appropriate to do so anonymously. I'm brave enough to sign my own name to everything I've ever written on the internet but often when I call 911 regarding gang activity in my Chicago neighborhood I do so anonymously. It is just the prudent thing to do. Sometimes that is true of words/writing as well.

You know your heart. You know if you've crossed the line from a holy and justifiable grief with error into a bitterness of spirit that cultivates criticism as a means to hurt or destroy. In all of the posts of yours that I have read I have never senses the second in you, though I have in plenty of other people through the years, and I would encourage you, if you think your husband could see his way clear to bless it, for you to return when you are ready. I've often found your contributions valuable.

 

[PappaBear]

I have heard my entire life if you are critical or question the man of God then God will bring judgment on you. In IFB circles this is the Cardinal sin to which there is no return.

In Hyles circles, yes.  "IFB" stands for Independent Fundamental Baptist.  The "B" is a BIG part of that.  I have found that in most BAPTIST Churches, the "man of God" is questioned, kept an eye on, and usually the scape goat for most everything that goes wrong in churches.  Predominantly, the HAC crowd is an exception to this where the folks are taught to look the other way, the "man of God" is a substitute for the LORD in the same way Moses was to Aaron, and should never be questioned or spoken ill of.

Contrary to popular opinion at FBCH and HAC, Hammond is NOT the center of the the I, F, or B universe. 

 

[PappaBear]

I challenge any in spiritual authority to read this passage in its context ... "Touch Not" refers to the evil of KILLING the King!  David most CERTAINLY confronts King Saul and challenges him to make things right (1 Samuel 26:18 & following).  Thus, while it would be wrong to kill the preacher, we certainly have a wonderful example of biblical confrontation.

The problem is that there are a LOT of passages about the LORD's protection of his leaders, not just kings.  Numbers 12 is one, and very pointed.  I believe that is, in part, why we are given assurance several places in the NT, especially in Hebrews 12, that God DOES judge His own here on earth.  Rest assured that if a man of God is wrong, he WILL answer to that.  It is a mistake of the flesh to attempt to take the sword of vengeance into your own hand against anyone, much less a "man of God."  Aaron and Miriam learned a hard lesson.  If there is any lesson that FBCH should learn through all this, it is that even though men may "hear no evil, see no evil, and speak no evil," yet God judges righteously and exposes covered sin.  He that covereth sin SHALL NOT prosper.  Trust in the LORD, He will do you right.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I understand completely and wish to bid you farewell.  Thank you for allowing us to vent to you, as you vented to us.  Somehow, I found this place, including your words, very helpful.  Maybe we will meet when we visit Mecca :.

 

[RAIDER]

Okay, obviously I go to FBC Hammond but only reluctantly at this point because my husband is pretty locked in and he's really, really happy there both with his ministry and with the new pastor.

I can't get past the things that bother me, and my husband tells me I really need to calm down about certain people.

I do for awhile, but then I hear something else or a new incident occurs and all the ugly feelings rear their head, stronger than ever.

But I know it is bad form for me to come on here and vent and name names while under my own cloak of anonymity.

I don't know how this whole situation will ever be solved in my own mind and heart, but I truly repent of being a cowardly namer of names.

So, after this post has had time to be seen by anyone who might be interested, I am going to delete my account and try to stop wallowing in negativity.

I stand by everything I have ever said or implied, but I don't respect myself for not using my real name when I say it. I can't use my real name, in my opinion, so it follows that I should not be saying anything.

Selah.

Keep in mind that you don't have to go the negative route on this forum.  Why not be a part of the "fun" side of the forum.  Only comment on threads that are more light hearted.

 

[Bruh]

I have heard my entire life if you are critical or question the man of God then God will bring judgment on you. In IFB circles this is the Cardinal sin to which there is no return.

In Hyles circles, yes.  "IFB" stands for Independent Fundamental Baptist.  The "B" is a BIG part of that.  I have found that in most BAPTIST Churches, the "man of God" is questioned, kept an eye on, and usually the scape goat for most everything that goes wrong in churches.  Predominantly, the HAC crowd is an exception to this where the folks are taught to look the other way, the "man of God" is a substitute for the LORD in the same way Moses was to Aaron, and should never be questioned or spoken ill of.

Contrary to popular opinion at FBCH and HAC, Hammond is NOT the center of the the I, F, or B universe.

Yes, many do not understand the difference, and there is a huge difference.  Thanks for your post. 

 

[SwampHag]

Forums like this are a *great* place for IFBx sheepels to get their eyes opened to what Scripture REALLY says.  The Bereans were called HONORABLE because they searched the Scriptures to make sure that what they were being told was TRUTH.

Questioning authority is not evil or sinful...it is commendable.  And true pastors are open to questions.

 

[Bruh]

Forums like this are a *great* place for IFBx sheepels to get their eyes opened to what Scripture REALLY says.  The Bereans were called HONORABLE because they searched the Scriptures to make sure that what they were being told was TRUTH.

Questioning authority is not evil or sinful...it is commendable.  And true pastors are open to questions.

I agree with your post.  I believe you are referring to the  "Hyles Movement" side of the IFB. 

 

[North]

The thing is though when you feel you don't have a voice what other recourse is there? People say to never criticize leadership but if leadership is wrong then something should be said. The whole of American history started from standing up to bad leadership, the Jews left Egypt in part because of how leadership treated them. I dunno,...

The advice of not criticizing leadership is the koolaid that is most vile and effective at promoting coverups and secret and not so secret sin in the camp.
I Tim 5:19,20 has the answer. You have your 2 or 3 witness, then do the investigation and then if it proves true we are to, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear".
We never did that with DH or Bro. Hyles and the list is almost endless.
Bro. Hyles spent much time protecting himself in his preaching, I'm sure you know.

We would cover it up, deny it and attack those that could not stand the sin. What we did to Bro. Godfrey is nothing less than Satanic.

This Koolaid has been served in giant glasses for the past 40 years. I for one will not drink any more of it.

We need more FBCH members who will speak out, not be cowed and not leave the church. Continue to serve the Lord and exhibit the fruit of the Spirit.

If you must leave, we understand. You will be missed.

She cannot speak out, without consequences. Per new FBC constitution guidelines, she would be kicked off the membership roll.

Unfortunately, there is not much you can do without dishonoring your husband or hurting your family name. You are doing the right thing though sticking by your husband's wishes. Just keep praying but be content to remain at FBC for life. Maybe though, the Lord will grant your request and move your family away in time. I'll be praying for you. You are stronger than most. God bless.