Enoch?
- Thread starter ALAYMAN
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ALAYMAN said:
I've always wondered about that. But as I have no answers, not even a plausible speculation, I've had to chalk that up to stuff we'll have to find out in the next life (a fairly large category). If anyone has a reasonable guess on what God did with Enoch and why, I'd sure like to hear it.
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"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him." (Heb. 11:5).
Seriously . . . does anyone actually read their Bible anymore, or do they just expect Google to answer all their questions now?
Seriously . . . does anyone actually read their Bible anymore, or do they just expect Google to answer all their questions now?
Ransom said:
That pretty much just restates Gen 5:24. I was hoping someone had a little bit more.
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That pretty much just restates Gen 5:24.
The question was whether Enoch escaped death. I'd say a verse that says he did not see death (from a well-known chapter of the Bible, to boot) basically answers the question.
The question was whether Enoch escaped death. I'd say a verse that says he did not see death (from a well-known chapter of the Bible, to boot) basically answers the question.
J
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Ransom said:
I remember a preacher saying when I first got saved that Enoch and Elijah would be the two witnesses that come back during the trib so they could taste death. Of course, he had no proof whatsoever.
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Ransom said:
No, as usual, your pomposity knows no bounds. I was well aware of the Hebrews passage, and had my reasons for asking the question the way I did. Primarily, it was about why God would allow Enoch to escape the penalty of sin. You conveniently avoided that, the most important facet of the question.
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[quote author=rsc2a]
Are hurt, pain, illness, weariness, and broken relationships not a consequence of the fall?
[/quote]
Yes, but how in the world does that answer my question? He faced *some* of the consequences of sin, to that I complete agree, but that has nothing to do with my question. The full measure of the consequences includes death, as clearly spelled out in Genesis. Enoch apparently escaped <one of, and a most serious one> what was prescribed by God for disobedience to all that were in Adam. Enoch was in Adam, wasn't he? Even though we are in Christ, we still don't escape the physical death which results from the fall. Why was Enoch exempted?
Are hurt, pain, illness, weariness, and broken relationships not a consequence of the fall?
[/quote]
Yes, but how in the world does that answer my question? He faced *some* of the consequences of sin, to that I complete agree, but that has nothing to do with my question. The full measure of the consequences includes death, as clearly spelled out in Genesis. Enoch apparently escaped <one of, and a most serious one> what was prescribed by God for disobedience to all that were in Adam. Enoch was in Adam, wasn't he? Even though we are in Christ, we still don't escape the physical death which results from the fall. Why was Enoch exempted?
T
truthdetector
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ALAYMAN said:
READ with caution and discernment.
http://www.cgom.org/Publications/Booklets/Enoch_Elijah.htm
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LAMER said:
Primarily, it was about why God would allow Enoch to escape the penalty of sin.
"Enoch walked with God" (Gen. 5:22).
"Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God" (Heb. 11:5).
There's your answer.
Apparently you're not as "well aware of the Hebrews passage" as you tout. Or Genesis.
Primarily, it was about why God would allow Enoch to escape the penalty of sin.
"Enoch walked with God" (Gen. 5:22).
"Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God" (Heb. 11:5).
There's your answer.
Apparently you're not as "well aware of the Hebrews passage" as you tout. Or Genesis.
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Ransom said:
It's your estimation then that God's pronouncement of death for those who sin (and Enoch was a sinner) was not applied to Enoch? Why not? Doesn't this give you pause as relating to God's immutability?
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It's your estimation then that God's pronouncement of death for those who sin (and Enoch was a sinner) was not applied to Enoch?
Enoch lived by faith, and his faith was credited as righteousness.
Doesn't this give you pause as issues of immutability?
Nope.
Enoch lived by faith, and his faith was credited as righteousness.
Doesn't this give you pause as issues of immutability?
Nope.
I love seeing types in the Old Testament: Joseph as a type of Christ who "came to his own and his own received him not" or the rock that Moses struck, "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. " (I Cor 10:4) and Enoch as the type of believer who will not see death when the trump calls (I Thes 4:16,17).
I'm of the opinion that Enoch/Elijah are the two witnesses, but I certainly wouldn't hold that strongly for Scripture isn't clear. If I had to hazard a guess I would say the answer to your question, Al, is right in the verse itself:
Ge 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
It places a great priority/importance/blessing on walking with God in a way that perhaps nothing else in the Scripture does. We all know that perhaps the most important key to the Christian life is spending time with God, and this story places the emphasis right where it belongs for all of us.
Ge 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
It places a great priority/importance/blessing on walking with God in a way that perhaps nothing else in the Scripture does. We all know that perhaps the most important key to the Christian life is spending time with God, and this story places the emphasis right where it belongs for all of us.
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ALAYMAN said:
Yes, but how in the world does that answer my question? He faced *some* of the consequences of sin, to that I complete agree, but that has nothing to do with my question. The full measure of the consequences includes death, as clearly spelled out in Genesis. Enoch apparently escaped <one of, and a most serious one> what was prescribed by God for disobedience to all that were in Adam. Enoch was in Adam, wasn't he? Even though we are in Christ, we still don't escape the physical death which results from the fall. Why was Enoch exempted?[/quote]
I maintain that you are dividing something that can't be that easily divided.
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JrChurch said:
This is the provocative answer my pastor gave, but it leaves me still with more questions than answers (not that that is ultimately a bad thing in the pursuit of all possible explanations). I simply find the fact that God pronounced an unequivocal curse on all sin and sinners to be compellingly overriding the notion that merely because Enoch "walked with God" that God somehow overlooked what He had earlier pronounced.