Did it really harm us?

[Bruh]

We no longer are members of an IFB church. The SBC we are currently members of are much more biblical than the 3 I've described.

Please expound.

#1. The preaching. As I've said already all these guys around here know how to do is use scripture as a spring board. And never stick to the text. There'll take one word and run with it. I'm sure you get what I'm saying here. This is all they do, they don't know how to actually preach the bible. And these men are in there 60's. A mile wide and a inch deep.

#2. Their biblical authority. I have no problem submitting but they cross way over the line. One of them tried telling me I needed to sell my house and property and move closer to his church and buy a trailer to live in. I told him he was completely out of line and needed to back off. He told me that I needed to submit to him and if what he was asking me to do didn't work out God would bless me for submitting to his authority.

#3. Standards ?  Look I get it Raider I have no issue if you or any of these pastors believe that women ought always to wear dresses. But when I have my family sitting in s services on a Wednesday night and the pastor preached an entire "sermon" for an hour on women and pants and says that a, "woman CAN NOT be godly if she wears pants" my wife and children hear this and my oldest looks at me in the middle of this so say sermon.........yea it was ridiculous. And I had to talk to them because obviously they had questions. In short, I told my children he just thinks differently than us on this and that is ok.
Then I have my wife, well you're married, so you know how it goes.

#4. Jack Schaap. When all that mess dropped he gets up and "preaches a sermon" on how the "relationship" he had was wrong but the work he has done the last whatever years was good. #1 he kept saying relationship like the young girl was in her 30's or 40's. #2. He and the church worshiped the ground Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap walked on. I understand him addressing this, but a whole service? I did my best, but we got up and walked out. I don't go to church to hear a sermon about Jack Schaap.

There's other things Radair but that's the things that pop up in my mind first.

Thank you.  My question was more directed at what things your SBC is doing that are more Biblical than IFB.

Numbers 1,2 and 3

 

[RAIDER]

We no longer are members of an IFB church. The SBC we are currently members of are much more biblical than the 3 I've described.

Please expound.

#1. The preaching. As I've said already all these guys around here know how to do is use scripture as a spring board. And never stick to the text. There'll take one word and run with it. I'm sure you get what I'm saying here. This is all they do, they don't know how to actually preach the bible. And these men are in there 60's. A mile wide and a inch deep.

#2. Their biblical authority. I have no problem submitting but they cross way over the line. One of them tried telling me I needed to sell my house and property and move closer to his church and buy a trailer to live in. I told him he was completely out of line and needed to back off. He told me that I needed to submit to him and if what he was asking me to do didn't work out God would bless me for submitting to his authority.

#3. Standards ?  Look I get it Raider I have no issue if you or any of these pastors believe that women ought always to wear dresses. But when I have my family sitting in s services on a Wednesday night and the pastor preached an entire "sermon" for an hour on women and pants and says that a, "woman CAN NOT be godly if she wears pants" my wife and children hear this and my oldest looks at me in the middle of this so say sermon.........yea it was ridiculous. And I had to talk to them because obviously they had questions. In short, I told my children he just thinks differently than us on this and that is ok.
Then I have my wife, well you're married, so you know how it goes.

#4. Jack Schaap. When all that mess dropped he gets up and "preaches a sermon" on how the "relationship" he had was wrong but the work he has done the last whatever years was good. #1 he kept saying relationship like the young girl was in her 30's or 40's. #2. He and the church worshiped the ground Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap walked on. I understand him addressing this, but a whole service? I did my best, but we got up and walked out. I don't go to church to hear a sermon about Jack Schaap.

There's other things Radair but that's the things that pop up in my mind first.

Thank you.  My question was more directed at what things your SBC is doing that are more Biblical than IFB.

Numbers 1,2 and 3

You've told us how the IFB churches in which you have been have done it wrong.  Please tell us how the SBC that you are now in does it right.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

We no longer are members of an IFB church. The SBC we are currently members of are much more biblical than the 3 I've described.

Please expound.

#1. The preaching. As I've said already all these guys around here know how to do is use scripture as a spring board. And never stick to the text. There'll take one word and run with it. I'm sure you get what I'm saying here. This is all they do, they don't know how to actually preach the bible. And these men are in there 60's. A mile wide and a inch deep.

#2. Their biblical authority. I have no problem submitting but they cross way over the line. One of them tried telling me I needed to sell my house and property and move closer to his church and buy a trailer to live in. I told him he was completely out of line and needed to back off. He told me that I needed to submit to him and if what he was asking me to do didn't work out God would bless me for submitting to his authority.

#3. Standards ?  Look I get it Raider I have no issue if you or any of these pastors believe that women ought always to wear dresses. But when I have my family sitting in s services on a Wednesday night and the pastor preached an entire "sermon" for an hour on women and pants and says that a, "woman CAN NOT be godly if she wears pants" my wife and children hear this and my oldest looks at me in the middle of this so say sermon.........yea it was ridiculous. And I had to talk to them because obviously they had questions. In short, I told my children he just thinks differently than us on this and that is ok.
Then I have my wife, well you're married, so you know how it goes.

#4. Jack Schaap. When all that mess dropped he gets up and "preaches a sermon" on how the "relationship" he had was wrong but the work he has done the last whatever years was good. #1 he kept saying relationship like the young girl was in her 30's or 40's. #2. He and the church worshiped the ground Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap walked on. I understand him addressing this, but a whole service? I did my best, but we got up and walked out. I don't go to church to hear a sermon about Jack Schaap.

There's other things Radair but that's the things that pop up in my mind first.

Thank you.  My question was more directed at what things your SBC is doing that are more Biblical than IFB.

Numbers 1,2 and 3

Those chapters are in my Bible too!

 

[Bruh]

We no longer are members of an IFB church. The SBC we are currently members of are much more biblical than the 3 I've described.

Please expound.

#1. The preaching. As I've said already all these guys around here know how to do is use scripture as a spring board. And never stick to the text. There'll take one word and run with it. I'm sure you get what I'm saying here. This is all they do, they don't know how to actually preach the bible. And these men are in there 60's. A mile wide and a inch deep.

#2. Their biblical authority. I have no problem submitting but they cross way over the line. One of them tried telling me I needed to sell my house and property and move closer to his church and buy a trailer to live in. I told him he was completely out of line and needed to back off. He told me that I needed to submit to him and if what he was asking me to do didn't work out God would bless me for submitting to his authority.

#3. Standards ?  Look I get it Raider I have no issue if you or any of these pastors believe that women ought always to wear dresses. But when I have my family sitting in s services on a Wednesday night and the pastor preached an entire "sermon" for an hour on women and pants and says that a, "woman CAN NOT be godly if she wears pants" my wife and children hear this and my oldest looks at me in the middle of this so say sermon.........yea it was ridiculous. And I had to talk to them because obviously they had questions. In short, I told my children he just thinks differently than us on this and that is ok.
Then I have my wife, well you're married, so you know how it goes.

#4. Jack Schaap. When all that mess dropped he gets up and "preaches a sermon" on how the "relationship" he had was wrong but the work he has done the last whatever years was good. #1 he kept saying relationship like the young girl was in her 30's or 40's. #2. He and the church worshiped the ground Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap walked on. I understand him addressing this, but a whole service? I did my best, but we got up and walked out. I don't go to church to hear a sermon about Jack Schaap.

There's other things Radair but that's the things that pop up in my mind first.

Thank you.  My question was more directed at what things your SBC is doing that are more Biblical than IFB.

Numbers 1,2 and 3

You've told us how the IFB churches in which you have been have done it wrong.  Please tell us how the SBC that you are now in does it right.

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

 

[Fresh Air]

#1. The preaching. As I've said already all these guys around here know how to do is use scripture as a spring board. And never stick to the text. There'll take one word and run with it. I'm sure you get what I'm saying here. This is all they do, they don't know how to actually preach the bible. And these men are in there 60's. A mile wide and a inch deep.

#2. Their biblical authority. I have no problem submitting but they cross way over the line. One of them tried telling me I needed to sell my house and property and move closer to his church and buy a trailer to live in. I told him he was completely out of line and needed to back off. He told me that I needed to submit to him and if what he was asking me to do didn't work out God would bless me for submitting to his authority.

It is exactly stories such as this that have driven me to write my next book...

 

[Walt]

It's not clear if this is IFB in general, or just effluent from Jack Hyles... Jack Trieber was a huge defender of Jack Hyles, and Paul Chappel was Trieber's youth pastor at the time of the big scandals.  But they have all drunk from the same fountain.  I, too, have very similar experiences; I was at a smallish church pastored by a  HAC graduate, and I saw all of those things.  But, having traveled a lot, I found that IFB churches not influenced by Hyles/HAC seemed to be relatively free of that taint.

There are a multitude of churches influenced by Hyles/HAC that are relatively free of that taint.

I haven't personally seen any, but what you say is presumably true.  Most of the influences of Hyles/HAC are bad -- I don't mean the sexual cover-ups; I'm talking about the bad preaching influence and the unscriptural leadership practices.

 

[Walt]

The church I attend is pastored by a graduate of HAC in 1983 or 4. He is very IFBx and speaks often of Hyles and HAC. He is proud of the fact he is a graduate form HAC. He has been at this church since 1987. He feels that women should not wear pants and occasionally mentions it. There is no doubt how he believes. he also allows for disagreement. Most of his ladies who are SS teachers, sing in the choir, serve as deacon wives, do not agree with him and wear pants when in public but not while serving in the church. He does not in any way look down or treat then any differently because they disagree.

I know a HAC grad from about the same time that is a good and decent man, but he isn't a pastor.

Once church I was at had a HAC grad -- they claimed that they loved people regardless of what they were doing ("love the sinner, not the sin"), but that wasn't practice.  If you weren't 100% loyal and in step with the pastor and leadership, you were kept at arm's length.  "Standards" were constantly preached, and the "deeper life" was ridiculed.  Soul-winning was everything, and Bible study was a waste of time - one should be soul-winning.  They were good at pushing pastoral loyalty, soul-winning, and giving, but several of the men were moral reprobates.

My experience has been that Hyles/HAC churches tend to over-emphasize those three externals and exclude the true relationship with Jesus Christ.

I'm willing to acknowledge that there are Hyles/HAC churches not like this, but I personally haven't seen them.

 

[IFB X-Files]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

Barring the liberal part of the SBC, from my experience, I think that pastoring the average SBC church would be a preachers dream.  Everything done in a SBC church is usually done by committee, which takes that load off the pastor, who only has to concentrate on preaching and teaching.

 

[Bruh]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

Barring the liberal part of the SBC, from my experience, I think that pastoring the average SBC church would be a preachers dream.  Everything done in a SBC church is usually done by committee, which takes that load off the pastor, who only has to concentrate on preaching and teaching.

I can't speak for every SBC, I'm only speaking for the one I attend.

 

[RAIDER]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

You just described the IFB church that I attend!

 

[Bruh]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

You just described the IFB church that I attend!

And that's awesome!

BUT! The reason Tom is writing his book on this type stuff isn't because this is the exception but the rule, I'm sure, because if it wasn't, than I don't see any reason to be writing the book. 

As I've said Raider, its sad but, it is the rule not the exception. 

 

[baptisthac]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

You just described the IFB church that I attend!

And that's awesome!

BUT! The reason Tom is writing his book on this type stuff isn't because this is the exception but the rule, I'm sure, because if it wasn't, than I don't see any reason to be writing the book. 

As I've said Raider, its sad but, it is the rule not the exception.

I have been involved closely in 3 churches pastored by Hyles-Anderson graduates.  Two of them are not like you have described.  One is.

 

[Jim Jones]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

You just described the IFB church that I attend!

And that's awesome!

BUT! The reason Tom is writing his book on this type stuff isn't because this is the exception but the rule, I'm sure, because if it wasn't, than I don't see any reason to be writing the book. 

As I've said Raider, its sad but, it is the rule not the exception.

Tom is just trying to suggest that he isn't a IFB lunatic.

 

[baptisthac]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

You just described the IFB church that I attend!

And that's awesome!

BUT! The reason Tom is writing his book on this type stuff isn't because this is the exception but the rule, I'm sure, because if it wasn't, than I don't see any reason to be writing the book. 

As I've said Raider, its sad but, it is the rule not the exception.

What is Tom's book going to cover?

 

[Bruh]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

You just described the IFB church that I attend!

And that's awesome!

BUT! The reason Tom is writing his book on this type stuff isn't because this is the exception but the rule, I'm sure, because if it wasn't, than I don't see any reason to be writing the book. 

As I've said Raider, its sad but, it is the rule not the exception.

I have been involved closely in 3 churches pastored by Hyles-Anderson graduates.  Two of them are not like you have described.  One is.

I've a lot of them and they don't stick to the text.

 

[Teri in NC]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

You just described the IFB church that I attend!

And that's awesome!

BUT! The reason Tom is writing his book on this type stuff isn't because this is the exception but the rule, I'm sure, because if it wasn't, than I don't see any reason to be writing the book. 

As I've said Raider, its sad but, it is the rule not the exception.

Tom is just trying to suggest that he isn't a IFB lunatic.

And here you are trying to prove that you ARE a lunatic.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

Barring the liberal part of the SBC, from my experience, I think that pastoring the average SBC church would be a preachers dream.  Everything done in a SBC church is usually done by committee, which takes that load off the pastor, who only has to concentrate on preaching and teaching.

That is also the view I had of SBC churches before I was exposed to actual SBC churches.

 

[baptisthac]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

You just described the IFB church that I attend!

And that's awesome!

BUT! The reason Tom is writing his book on this type stuff isn't because this is the exception but the rule, I'm sure, because if it wasn't, than I don't see any reason to be writing the book. 

As I've said Raider, its sad but, it is the rule not the exception.

What is Tom's book going to cover?

Does anyone know the answer to this question?

 

[Walt]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

You just described the IFB church that I attend!

And that's awesome!

BUT! The reason Tom is writing his book on this type stuff isn't because this is the exception but the rule, I'm sure, because if it wasn't, than I don't see any reason to be writing the book. 

As I've said Raider, its sad but, it is the rule not the exception.

What is Tom's book going to cover?

Does anyone know the answer to this question?

At a guess, Tom does...

 

[Bruh]

Raider, 1,2 and 3 they are doing right. So for instance, if in number one they never preach the text that would mean that the SBC pastor where I attend preaches the text............every time.

Pastoral authority is not over barring and number three they have no issues with s lady that believes God wants her to only wear dresses.

Is that better?

You just described the IFB church that I attend!

And that's awesome!

BUT! The reason Tom is writing his book on this type stuff isn't because this is the exception but the rule, I'm sure, because if it wasn't, than I don't see any reason to be writing the book. 

As I've said Raider, its sad but, it is the rule not the exception.

What is Tom's book going to cover?

Does anyone know the answer to this question?

#1. The preaching. As I've said already all these guys around here know how to do is use scripture as a spring board. And never stick to the text. There'll take one word and run with it. I'm sure you get what I'm saying here. This is all they do, they don't know how to actually preach the bible. And these men are in there 60's. A mile wide and a inch deep.

#2. Their biblical authority. I have no problem submitting but they cross way over the line. One of them tried telling me I needed to sell my house and property and move closer to his church and buy a trailer to live in. I told him he was completely out of line and needed to back off. He told me that I needed to submit to him and if what he was asking me to do didn't work out God would bless me for submitting to his authority.

It is exactly stories such as this that have driven me to write my next book...