Did it really harm us?

[Bruh]

Is there anyone on here that would send their kids to HAC if it was as it were when they were there?

By that age, my kids are old enough to make their own choice of school. Though I would not want them to go there, I would give them the pros and cons and support their decision, even if it is one which goes against my better judgement.

You are not still in the circle of IFB's.
I wonder if those who are still IFB's would encourage or allow their children to attend HAC...because that is really the essence of how they feel about it.

If anyone on the FFF wanted to be open minded, they would have to revisit HAC.  This is not the same HAC which we attended.

You are absolutely correct! But for sure that place has a lot of baggage/stains.

Kinda like mentioning Jack Hyles in a sermon. Someone mentions Jack Hyles in a sermon. Someone that doesn't know who he is Googles his name at home and then what? Do you really want to explain this every time you or someone mentions his name. That's a lot of explaining even if it's just one person.

IMO, right or wrong there's just to much detail to explain to even mention anything about that place.

Does this make sense?

 

[Walt]

Hi All, I went to HAC-light (WCBC). I am surprised at the amount of similarities there are in the way I view my experience and what I have read here. Thus it makes me think that the IFB should look at these problems which are movement large. Things like man worship, final authority of the pastor, and an overall arrogance in ignorance that condensed higher education at their own institution which claimed to be a college. 

So did the experience harm me? Yes, for many of the same reasons mentioned here. Perhaps the biggest one I have dealt with is forgiving myself for allowing men like Paul Chappell to have that much authority and influence on my thinking. Far too often I confused the pastor's word for the word of God, and even now I find it hard to trust any Christian leader.

I think God's judgment is reserved for people who have treated his children in such a manner as this. To preach a gospel of grace, but live out a gospel of works; isn't this another gospel than the one given down to us by the Holy Spirit? I digress. I'm just glad to be free from that mentality and thankful to my Filipino, Catholic, born wife who heard the Gospel not in a Baptist church and yet understands more about the grace of God than any "professor" I had at WCBC.

It's not clear if this is IFB in general, or just effluent from Jack Hyles... Jack Trieber was a huge defender of Jack Hyles, and Paul Chappel was Trieber's youth pastor at the time of the big scandals.  But they have all drunk from the same fountain.  I, too, have very similar experiences; I was at a smallish church pastored by a  HAC graduate, and I saw all of those things.  But, having traveled a lot, I found that IFB churches not influenced by Hyles/HAC seemed to be relatively free of that taint.

 

[nib1066]

Walt,

Thanks for the reply. You make some very good points, and I'll have to think about them.

Nib

 

[RAIDER]

It's not clear if this is IFB in general, or just effluent from Jack Hyles... Jack Trieber was a huge defender of Jack Hyles, and Paul Chappel was Trieber's youth pastor at the time of the big scandals.  But they have all drunk from the same fountain.  I, too, have very similar experiences; I was at a smallish church pastored by a  HAC graduate, and I saw all of those things.  But, having traveled a lot, I found that IFB churches not influenced by Hyles/HAC seemed to be relatively free of that taint.

There are a multitude of churches influenced by Hyles/HAC that are relatively free of that taint.

 

[Bruh]

Hi All, I went to HAC-light (WCBC). I am surprised at the amount of similarities there are in the way I view my experience and what I have read here. Thus it makes me think that the IFB should look at these problems which are movement large. Things like man worship, final authority of the pastor, and an overall arrogance in ignorance that condemns higher education at their own institution which claimed to be a college. 

So did the experience harm me? Yes, for many of the same reasons mentioned here. Perhaps the biggest one I have dealt with is forgiving myself for allowing men like Paul Chappell to have that much authority and influence on my thinking. Far too often I confused the pastor's word for the word of God, and even now I find it hard to trust any Christian leader.

I think God's judgment is reserved for people who have treated his children in such a manner as this. To preach a gospel of grace, but live out a gospel of works; isn't this another gospel than the one given down to us by the Holy Spirit? I digress. I'm just glad to be free from that mentality and thankful to my Filipino, Catholic, born wife who heard the Gospel not in a Baptist church and yet understands more about the grace of God than any "professor" I had at WCBC.

From a distance of course, it seems as though Chappell portrays his church and college to be different from FBCH/HAC. If he try's to do this on purpose I don't know.

It seems as though he try's to be very relevant for the times, fashionable.  It seems like a person can go there and be themselves and not have to portray themselves as something there not.

Like I said I've never been there, I've listened to his sermons and IMO they were biblically sound. It doesn't seem he's "stuck on standards". I don't know from a distance it seems as though he's opposite of Hyles.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Hi All, I went to HAC-light (WCBC). I am surprised at the amount of similarities there are in the way I view my experience and what I have read here. Thus it makes me think that the IFB should look at these problems which are movement large. Things like man worship, final authority of the pastor, and an overall arrogance in ignorance that condensed higher education at their own institution which claimed to be a college. 

So did the experience harm me? Yes, for many of the same reasons mentioned here. Perhaps the biggest one I have dealt with is forgiving myself for allowing men like Paul Chappell to have that much authority and influence on my thinking. Far too often I confused the pastor's word for the word of God, and even now I find it hard to trust any Christian leader.

I think God's judgment is reserved for people who have treated his children in such a manner as this. To preach a gospel of grace, but live out a gospel of works; isn't this another gospel than the one given down to us by the Holy Spirit? I digress. I'm just glad to be free from that mentality and thankful to my Filipino, Catholic, born wife who heard the Gospel not in a Baptist church and yet understands more about the grace of God than any "professor" I had at WCBC.

It's not clear if this is IFB in general, or just effluent from Jack Hyles... Jack Trieber was a huge defender of Jack Hyles, and Paul Chappel was Trieber's youth pastor at the time of the big scandals.  But they have all drunk from the same fountain.  I, too, have very similar experiences; I was at a smallish church pastored by a  HAC graduate, and I saw all of those things.  But, having traveled a lot, I found that IFB churches not influenced by Hyles/HAC seemed to be relatively free of that taint.

That is my experience as well.
The IFB's I grew up in and around were not Hyles churches and I was thankfully sheltered from much of what we hear expressed on the fff.
Coincidentially or not, it was and is my experience.
Which is why I am still bewildered by who does and who doesn't deserve a standing O in Hammond. 

 

[Bruh]

It's not clear if this is IFB in general, or just effluent from Jack Hyles... Jack Trieber was a huge defender of Jack Hyles, and Paul Chappel was Trieber's youth pastor at the time of the big scandals.  But they have all drunk from the same fountain.  I, too, have very similar experiences; I was at a smallish church pastored by a  HAC graduate, and I saw all of those things.  But, having traveled a lot, I found that IFB churches not influenced by Hyles/HAC seemed to be relatively free of that taint.

There are a multitude of churches influenced by Hyles/HAC that are relatively free of that taint.

I don't know Raider, of course you're much older than I am, and I'm sure you've made the block more than me. But any church I've been in that has been influenced by Hyles is very very controlling, "stuck on standards", and if you aren't 100% like them in everything well then you're not right with God. And the attitude is, we love you in your sin.

If your life is falling apart then they give you a pass on standards and stuff like that. But if your life isn't falling apart and your kids are good kids well mannered your fianaces are in decent to good shape you own your home, you know life is together than they never give you a pass. You MUST be exactly like them with no exceptions and I mean none.

I've never been in an IFB church like Tom Brennan's where if the wife wears pants all he ask if they teach Sunday school he ask them not to wear them to church functions. He's allowing the Holy Spirit do His work not the other way around.

Any IFB church I've been in the pastor teaches, obey me in everything I say for your life and if for some reason it doesn't work out God will bless you because you obeyed the pastor.

I've attend one IFB church that wasn't influenced by Hyles and it wasn't in no way like I've described.

 

[RAIDER]

It's not clear if this is IFB in general, or just effluent from Jack Hyles... Jack Trieber was a huge defender of Jack Hyles, and Paul Chappel was Trieber's youth pastor at the time of the big scandals.  But they have all drunk from the same fountain.  I, too, have very similar experiences; I was at a smallish church pastored by a  HAC graduate, and I saw all of those things.  But, having traveled a lot, I found that IFB churches not influenced by Hyles/HAC seemed to be relatively free of that taint.

There are a multitude of churches influenced by Hyles/HAC that are relatively free of that taint.

I don't know Raider, of course you're much older than I am, and I'm sure you've made the block more than me. But any church I've been in that has been influenced by Hyles is very very controlling, "stuck on standards", and if you aren't 100% like them in everything well then you're not right with God. And the attitude is, we love you in your sin.

If your life is falling apart then they give you a pass on standards and stuff like that. But if your life isn't falling apart and your kids are good kids well mannered your fianaces are in decent to good shape you own your home, you know life is together than they never give you a pass. You MUST be exactly like them with no exceptions and I mean none.

I've never been in an IFB church like Tom Brennan's where if the wife wears pants all he ask if they teach Sunday school he ask them not to wear them to church functions. He's allowing the Holy Spirit do His work not the other way around.

Any IFB church I've been in the pastor teaches, obey me in everything I say for your life and if for some reason it doesn't work out God will bless you because you obeyed the pastor.

I've attend one IFB church that wasn't influenced by Hyles and it wasn't in no way like I've described.

If you are looking for churches influenced by Hyles that don't preach standards, you are correct in assuming you won't find many.  If you are looking for churches influenced by Hyles that preach standards, yet love and don't "look down" on people who don't follow those standards (i.e. Tom), you will find many. 

 

[Bruh]

It's not clear if this is IFB in general, or just effluent from Jack Hyles... Jack Trieber was a huge defender of Jack Hyles, and Paul Chappel was Trieber's youth pastor at the time of the big scandals.  But they have all drunk from the same fountain.  I, too, have very similar experiences; I was at a smallish church pastored by a  HAC graduate, and I saw all of those things.  But, having traveled a lot, I found that IFB churches not influenced by Hyles/HAC seemed to be relatively free of that taint.

There are a multitude of churches influenced by Hyles/HAC that are relatively free of that taint.

I don't know Raider, of course you're much older than I am, and I'm sure you've made the block more than me. But any church I've been in that has been influenced by Hyles is very very controlling, "stuck on standards", and if you aren't 100% like them in everything well then you're not right with God. And the attitude is, we love you in your sin.

If your life is falling apart then they give you a pass on standards and stuff like that. But if your life isn't falling apart and your kids are good kids well mannered your fianaces are in decent to good shape you own your home, you know life is together than they never give you a pass. You MUST be exactly like them with no exceptions and I mean none.

I've never been in an IFB church like Tom Brennan's where if the wife wears pants all he ask if they teach Sunday school he ask them not to wear them to church functions. He's allowing the Holy Spirit do His work not the other way around.

Any IFB church I've been in the pastor teaches, obey me in everything I say for your life and if for some reason it doesn't work out God will bless you because you obeyed the pastor.

I've attend one IFB church that wasn't influenced by Hyles and it wasn't in no way like I've described.

If you are looking for churches influenced by Hyles that don't preach standards, you are correct in assuming you won't find many. If you are looking for churches influenced by Hyles that preach standards, yet love and don't "look down" on people who don't follow those standards (i.e. Tom), you will find many.

No, I've haven't seen this. Yes they love you, but the attitude is, we love you in your sin. And you're not allowed to teach children's Sunday school.

IMO, Tom is the exception.

Name 5 IBF churches that have been influenced by Hyles that operate like Tom when it comes to pants on women and teaching Sunday school.

 

[RAIDER]

No, I've haven't seen this. Yes they love you, but the attitude is, we love you in your sin. And you're not allowed to teach children's Sunday school.

IMO, Tom is the exception.

Name 5 IBF churches that have been influenced by Hyles that operate like Tom when it comes to pants on women and teaching Sunday school.

Are we not to love people "in their sin"?  We should preach against sin.  We should have a desire for people to see their sin, repent, and forsake their sin. 

I am not going to name the churches on the FFF.  I will tell you that the church I attend was influenced by Hyles, yet we have women that teach SS and wear pants when not at church.  There are two IFB Hyles influenced church 45 minutes from me in different directions that do the same.

You are correct that there are Hyles influenced churches that do not allow women to teach SS if they wear pants at anytime.  I am not disputing that.  I am disputing that there are few Hyles influenced churches that do not practice this. 

 

[deertracks]

The church I attend is pastored by a graduate of HAC in 1983 or 4. He is very IFBx and speaks often of Hyles and HAC. He is proud of the fact he is a graduate form HAC. He has been at this church since 1987. He feels that women should not wear pants and occasionally mentions it. There is no doubt how he believes. he also allows for disagreement. Most of his ladies who are SS teachers, sing in the choir, serve as deacon wives, do not agree with him and wear pants when in public but not while serving in the church. He does not in any way look down or treat then any differently because they disagree.

 

[RAIDER]

The church I attend is pastored by a graduate of HAC in 1983 or 4. He is very IFBx and speaks often of Hyles and HAC. He is proud of the fact he is a graduate form HAC. He has been at this church since 1987. He feels that women should not wear pants and occasionally mentions it. There is no doubt how he believes. he also allows for disagreement. Most of his ladies who are SS teachers, sing in the choir, serve as deacon wives, do not agree with him and wear pants when in public but not while serving in the church. He does not in any way look down or treat then any differently because they disagree.

Thanks for the post.

 

[Bruh]

The church I attend is pastored by a graduate of HAC in 1983 or 4. He is very IFBx and speaks often of Hyles and HAC. He is proud of the fact he is a graduate form HAC. He has been at this church since 1987. He feels that women should not wear pants and occasionally mentions it. There is no doubt how he believes. he also allows for disagreement. Most of his ladies who are SS teachers, sing in the choir, serve as deacon wives, do not agree with him and wear pants when in public but not while serving in the church. He does not in any way look down or treat then any differently because they disagree.

Thanks for the post.

IMO, and I could be wrong, I really believe this is the exception, not the rule.

 

[RAIDER]

The church I attend is pastored by a graduate of HAC in 1983 or 4. He is very IFBx and speaks often of Hyles and HAC. He is proud of the fact he is a graduate form HAC. He has been at this church since 1987. He feels that women should not wear pants and occasionally mentions it. There is no doubt how he believes. he also allows for disagreement. Most of his ladies who are SS teachers, sing in the choir, serve as deacon wives, do not agree with him and wear pants when in public but not while serving in the church. He does not in any way look down or treat then any differently because they disagree.

Thanks for the post.

IMO, and I could be wrong, I really believe this is the exception, not the rule.

Why do you feel that way?

 

[Jim Jones]

You will never fit a square peg in a round hole.

Standards drive IFB/HAC churches.

Period.

 

[IFB X-Files]

You will never fit a square peg in a round hole.

They did in Apollo 13.

 

[Bruh]

The church I attend is pastored by a graduate of HAC in 1983 or 4. He is very IFBx and speaks often of Hyles and HAC. He is proud of the fact he is a graduate form HAC. He has been at this church since 1987. He feels that women should not wear pants and occasionally mentions it. There is no doubt how he believes. he also allows for disagreement. Most of his ladies who are SS teachers, sing in the choir, serve as deacon wives, do not agree with him and wear pants when in public but not while serving in the church. He does not in any way look down or treat then any differently because they disagree.

Thanks for the post.

IMO, and I could be wrong, I really believe this is the exception, not the rule.

Why do you feel that way?

I've been a member of 4 different IFB churches 3 of which were influenced by Hyles and are what I've described. The one was not influenced by Hyles and was the complete opposite. If I could do it over again I would've never moved and we would still be members there. It was the most, IMO, balanced church we've ever attended.

We no longer are members of an IFB church. The SBC we are currently members of are much more biblical than the 3 I've described. Biblical in preaching more then anything. The pastor has a "Team" of 5 men and he told me not one of those men are "yes men". I told him I've never heard that in all my years. I've been spending time with him every week.

In my heart I believe it would be best for me and my family to be members of an IFB church but all they have around here are what I've described and it's very heart breaking. There's not many, maybe 3 and that's it and every one of the are 100% completely Hyles with none of the good traits. They can't even show up on time and all the use scripture for is a spring board, maybe take one word from somewhere and run with it. It's literally crazy.

But hey, like my Cajun grandmother use to say, "Keep smiling sha, all you can do is the best you can do and that's all you can do".    "I do the best I can do"

Roll with the punches and keep smiling.

 

[RAIDER]

We no longer are members of an IFB church. The SBC we are currently members of are much more biblical than the 3 I've described.

Please expound.

 

[Bruh]

We no longer are members of an IFB church. The SBC we are currently members of are much more biblical than the 3 I've described.

Please expound.

#1. The preaching. As I've said already all these guys around here know how to do is use scripture as a spring board. And never stick to the text. There'll take one word and run with it. I'm sure you get what I'm saying here. This is all they do, they don't know how to actually preach the bible. And these men are in there 60's. A mile wide and a inch deep.

#2. Their biblical authority. I have no problem submitting but they cross way over the line. One of them tried telling me I needed to sell my house and property and move closer to his church and buy a trailer to live in. I told him he was completely out of line and needed to back off. He told me that I needed to submit to him and if what he was asking me to do didn't work out God would bless me for submitting to his authority.

#3. Standards ?  Look I get it Raider I have no issue if you or any of these pastors believe that women ought always to wear dresses. But when I have my family sitting in s services on a Wednesday night and the pastor preached an entire "sermon" for an hour on women and pants and says that a, "woman CAN NOT be godly if she wears pants" my wife and children hear this and my oldest looks at me in the middle of this so say sermon.........yea it was ridiculous. And I had to talk to them because obviously they had questions. In short, I told my children he just thinks differently than us on this and that is ok.
Then I have my wife, well you're married, so you know how it goes.

#4. Jack Schaap. When all that mess dropped he gets up and "preaches a sermon" on how the "relationship" he had was wrong but the work he has done the last whatever years was good. #1 he kept saying relationship like the young girl was in her 30's or 40's. #2. He and the church worshiped the ground Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap walked on. I understand him addressing this, but a whole service? I did my best, but we got up and walked out. I don't go to church to hear a sermon about Jack Schaap.

There's other things Radair but that's the things that pop up in my mind first.

 

[RAIDER]

We no longer are members of an IFB church. The SBC we are currently members of are much more biblical than the 3 I've described.

Please expound.

#1. The preaching. As I've said already all these guys around here know how to do is use scripture as a spring board. And never stick to the text. There'll take one word and run with it. I'm sure you get what I'm saying here. This is all they do, they don't know how to actually preach the bible. And these men are in there 60's. A mile wide and a inch deep.

#2. Their biblical authority. I have no problem submitting but they cross way over the line. One of them tried telling me I needed to sell my house and property and move closer to his church and buy a trailer to live in. I told him he was completely out of line and needed to back off. He told me that I needed to submit to him and if what he was asking me to do didn't work out God would bless me for submitting to his authority.

#3. Standards ?  Look I get it Raider I have no issue if you or any of these pastors believe that women ought always to wear dresses. But when I have my family sitting in s services on a Wednesday night and the pastor preached an entire "sermon" for an hour on women and pants and says that a, "woman CAN NOT be godly if she wears pants" my wife and children hear this and my oldest looks at me in the middle of this so say sermon.........yea it was ridiculous. And I had to talk to them because obviously they had questions. In short, I told my children he just thinks differently than us on this and that is ok.
Then I have my wife, well you're married, so you know how it goes.

#4. Jack Schaap. When all that mess dropped he gets up and "preaches a sermon" on how the "relationship" he had was wrong but the work he has done the last whatever years was good. #1 he kept saying relationship like the young girl was in her 30's or 40's. #2. He and the church worshiped the ground Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap walked on. I understand him addressing this, but a whole service? I did my best, but we got up and walked out. I don't go to church to hear a sermon about Jack Schaap.

There's other things Radair but that's the things that pop up in my mind first.

Thank you.  My question was more directed at what things your SBC is doing that are more Biblical than IFB.