Did it really harm us?

[SwampHag]

If nothing else, HAC harmed us in the fact we have forgotten who the enemy is and it's not each other.  Lots of side taking went on up there....

The enemy is Satan, and the sooner Christians stop shooting at each other and start shooting at him, the sooner we can start making a real difference in this world.

JS is in jail.  He belongs there.  IMO, leave him there and move on to the job at hand of reaching the lost.

That's fine but the enemy is the false gospel they continue to promote, shouldn't someone speak out about this?

Ay yi yi.
Same old same old.

If someone is preaching a false Gospel, they aren't Christians.

 

[rsc2a]

Peter wasn't a Christian post-Pauline conversion?

 

[Bruh]

If nothing else, HAC harmed us in the fact we have forgotten who the enemy is and it's not each other.  Lots of side taking went on up there....

The enemy is Satan, and the sooner Christians stop shooting at each other and start shooting at him, the sooner we can start making a real difference in this world.

JS is in jail.  He belongs there.  IMO, leave him there and move on to the job at hand of reaching the lost.

That's fine but the enemy is the false gospel they continue to promote, shouldn't someone speak out about this?

Ay yi yi.
Same old same old.

If someone is preaching a false Gospel, they aren't Christians.

1,2,3 repeat after me 4,5,6 hope it sticks, is a false gospel.

 

[SwampHag]

Not sure what the heck that has to do with my post but carry on

 

[Mathew Ward]

If nothing else, HAC harmed us in the fact we have forgotten who the enemy is and it's not each other.  Lots of side taking went on up there....
Y
The enemy is Satan, and the sooner Christians stop shooting at each other and start shooting at him, the sooner we can start making a real difference in this world.

JS is in jail.  He belongs there.  IMO, leave him there and move on to the job at hand of reaching the lost.

That's fine but the enemy is the false gospel they continue to promote, shouldn't someone speak out about this?

Ay yi yi.
Same old same old.

If someone is preaching a false Gospel, they aren't Christians.

1,2,3 repeat after me 4,5,6 hope it sticks, is a false gospel.

7, 8,9 Jack is divine.

I guess they got it.

 

[Vince Massi]

One day, I looked up the Catholic grade school I had graduated from. There are no forums.

And I looked up the Catholic high school I graduated from. There are no forums.

I looked up the secular college I attended for one year. There are no forums.

Hyles-Anderson, however...

 

[Bruh]

If nothing else, HAC harmed us in the fact we have forgotten who the enemy is and it's not each other.  Lots of side taking went on up there....
Y
The enemy is Satan, and the sooner Christians stop shooting at each other and start shooting at him, the sooner we can start making a real difference in this world.

JS is in jail.  He belongs there.  IMO, leave him there and move on to the job at hand of reaching the lost.

That's fine but the enemy is the false gospel they continue to promote, shouldn't someone speak out about this?

Ay yi yi.
Same old same old.

If someone is preaching a false Gospel, they aren't Christians.

1,2,3 repeat after me 4,5,6 hope it sticks, is a false gospel.

7, 8,9 Jack is divine.

I guess they got it.

I have no beaf with you SwampHag, but you make my point,exactly.

If someone is shooting at HAC, it is shooting at a place that preaches a false gospel. It's not shooting just to be shooting. It's is shooting at a place that claims to be proclaiming the gospel and its proclaiming a false gospel all the while calling itself Baptist, we should shoot against such institutions.

7,8,9 Jack is Devine good stuff.

 

[cast.sheep]

One day, I looked up the Catholic grade school I had graduated from. There are no forums.

And I looked up the Catholic high school I graduated from. There are no forums.

I looked up the secular college I attended for one year. There are no forums.

Hyles-Anderson, however...

Exactly........  There are also a lot of other Christian colleges out there who don't have forums with activity like ours.  Makes you wonder.....

 

[BALAAM]

One day, I looked up the Catholic grade school I had graduated from. There are no forums.

And I looked up the Catholic high school I graduated from. There are no forums.

I looked up the secular college I attended for one year. There are no forums.

Hyles-Anderson, however...

They had a meeting and decided against forums because they thought you would join them!

 

[qwerty]

I happen to believe that every student who attended HAC was indirectly harmed by the heresy which was the system.

You earthlings are big into litigation.  How about a class-action lawsuit?

It may just be that HACkers whine the most.

 

[SwampHag]

One day, I looked up the Catholic grade school I had graduated from. There are no forums.

And I looked up the Catholic high school I graduated from. There are no forums.

I looked up the secular college I attended for one year. There are no forums.

Hyles-Anderson, however...

My high school has a forum but I have NO DESIRE to be a part of it.  I don't care if I ever hear from 99% of the people I went to high school with.
I think the thing about HAC is that no matter what we went through we made friends of a life time there.  Goodness, what would I do without Patriotic and Teri encouraging me just about every day!  What would I do without my REAL LIFE Christian friends who pray with me, share my sorrows and joys, inspire me to be a better person.
THAT's one thing I took from HAC that made me glad I went there.

 

[prophet]

One day, I looked up the Catholic grade school I had graduated from. There are no forums.

And I looked up the Catholic high school I graduated from. There are no forums.

I looked up the secular college I attended for one year. There are no forums.

Hyles-Anderson, however...

My high school has a forum but I have NO DESIRE to be a part of it.  I don't care if I ever hear from 99% of the people I went to high school with.
I think the thing about HAC is that no matter what we went through we made friends of a life time there.  Goodness, what would I do without Patriotic and Teri encouraging me just about every day!  What would I do without my REAL LIFE Christian friends who pray with me, share my sorrows and joys, inspire me to be a better person.
THAT's one thing I took from HAC that made me glad I went there.

Some of the best people I know, are my college roommates.

I look up people I went to school with in every place I travel.

You are my family, too.

 

[BALAAM]

One day, I looked up the Catholic grade school I had graduated from. There are no forums.

And I looked up the Catholic high school I graduated from. There are no forums.

I looked up the secular college I attended for one year. There are no forums.

Hyles-Anderson, however...

My high school has a forum but I have NO DESIRE to be a part of it.  I don't care if I ever hear from 99% of the people I went to high school with.
I think the thing about HAC is that no matter what we went through we made friends of a life time there.  Goodness, what would I do without Patriotic and Teri encouraging me just about every day!  What would I do without my REAL LIFE Christian friends who pray with me, share my sorrows and joys, inspire me to be a better person.
THAT's one thing I took from HAC that made me glad I went there.

Some of the best people I know, are my college roommates.

I look up people I went to school with in every place I travel.

You are my family, too.

Prophet, and you are just like a grandfather to me!

 

[cast.sheep]

Here's my question to you Raider (from your years) and Tom Brennan (from our years there),...

I get that Raider did not know what was going on in his time. Brennan and I were in the group that was there when the wagons were circling and did not believe all of the accusations. This may be a "baby and bath water" question,... All those teachings from our respective time there was from a time when it was happening or the fallout of what happened. If leaders knew all those years what was going on can we trust that their teachings on subjects there were supposedly about right and wrong when so much wrong was being covered up? Or to some lesser degree by other individuals still going on. Did those teachings just foster an environment when those wrongs could continue (like don't question leadership etc)

The short answer to your question is - we can't. We can't trust anything we were told. And we aren't supposed to. I just preached last night about misplaced faith. You can have all the faith in the world but if you put it in the wrong object you are in trouble. And no man is a worthy object of your faith.

Practically speaking, what does that mean? That I had to re-examine everything. And I think I've done that. Most of it I've kept b/c I do find the roots of it to be biblical, especially when applied scripturally. Some of it I've chucked, and I think I've been pretty open about that on here through the years. To sum up my current perspective, I've thrown away most of the environment and kept most of its underlying beliefs. (Yes, I realize a whole bunch of people rather violently disagree with the wisdom of that last sentence.) For instance, I emphasize personal soul winning but I don't push numbers. I emphasize holiness rather than standards, though I still have practically the same standards I had back then. I lead with authority but I teach my people to question me and that I am not always right. etc. etc.

^^^This.

Difference is - I grew up there - nursery through college.  I knew nothing else.  Don't get me wrong.  We knew things weren't right, rebelled against the system and looked longingly at the outside world.  But, breaking through those walls put up by the system is life altering.  If you haven't lived it, you just don't understand.  Try watching The Truman Show.  When Truman realized his whole world as he knew it was a sham and broke through the door I whispered to my wife: "That's me."

Yep, at such a moment, you question everything - even the existence of God.  My story?  I found my Bible and started reading.  What I read there is what I am - not anything that JH, JS, EL or even my parents taught me.

JH built his ministry with some foundational precepts that were true.  From there, his revenge against the SBC and ego took over and corrupted even his foundations.  Hence, it became all about the numbers.  To this day, some people believe it was great simply because it was big.  How sad.

Very close to my own story. I find great comfort in knowing that I am not alone.

 

[Walt]

What about the tens or hundreds of thousands of false professions gotten by ministry workers for notches on their NT or a number on a report. This type of numberism was promoted from the highest level and the most unethical of practices and motivations were also taught and/or tolerated because it worked!

My question....what about those souls?

Are they living under false assurances?

or do they simply think it is a big joke having done this and been baptized multiple times to please an overzealous and mismotivated worker?

Some see a great building in Hammond and a bronze statue in Crown Point but I can't help but to see miles of scorched earth surrounding all of it.

The OP was not "Did it do harm?", but rather "Did it harm YOU?"

 

[Walt]

If nothing else, HAC harmed us in the fact we have forgotten who the enemy is and it's not each other.  Lots of side taking went on up there....

The enemy is Satan, and the sooner Christians stop shooting at each other and start shooting at him, the sooner we can start making a real difference in this world.

JS is in jail.  He belongs there.  IMO, leave him there and move on to the job at hand of reaching the lost.

If you believe that "the" job at hand is reaching the lost, you have been harmed by HAC.

"Reaching the lost" is merely 1/3 of the job Jesus gave to His church.  There is also baptizing believers, and (importantly) training them.  Saved people need to know how to use God's word and to identify truth from error.

 

[JrChurch]

If you believe that "the" job at hand is reaching the lost, you have been harmed by HAC.

"Reaching the lost" is merely 1/3 of the job Jesus gave to His church.  There is also baptizing believers, and (importantly) training them.  Saved people need to know how to use God's word and to identify truth from error.

From what I know of Swamphag and her church, they don't limit themselves to "1/3 of the job."  They have it all covered. 

 

[SwampHag]

If nothing else, HAC harmed us in the fact we have forgotten who the enemy is and it's not each other.  Lots of side taking went on up there....

The enemy is Satan, and the sooner Christians stop shooting at each other and start shooting at him, the sooner we can start making a real difference in this world.

JS is in jail.  He belongs there.  IMO, leave him there and move on to the job at hand of reaching the lost.

If you believe that "the" job at hand is reaching the lost, you have been harmed by HAC.

"Reaching the lost" is merely 1/3 of the job Jesus gave to His church.  There is also baptizing believers, and (importantly) training them.  Saved people need to know how to use God's word and to identify truth from error.

HAHAHAHAHA!  I know quite a few 'saved' people who don't know truth from error because they are still stinkin' babies.  They expect the 'preechur' to feed them instead of feeding themselves.

And as for the other 2/3.....if one doesn't start with reaching the lost, there really isn't much else to do.

 

[Fresh Air]

And as for the other 2/3.....if one doesn't start with reaching the lost, there really isn't much else to do.

...hollering Amen here in frozen Chicago.

 

[cast.sheep]

I happen to believe that every student who attended HAC was indirectly harmed by the heresy which was the system.

You earthlings are big into litigation.  How about a class-action lawsuit?

It may just be that HACkers whine the most.

With that line of thinking, abused women, AA'ers, drug abusers, etc. are also "whiners"? 
After all, abused women could have just left. And gotten over it.
Alcoholics could have just stopped drinking. And gotten over it.
Drug addicts could have just stopped using drugs. And gotten over it.

But, they didn't.  And talking about it with other survivors helps them.  I would hope that no one would ever consider them a whiner. 

But that's different, isn't it.