Dictatorial Preacher Rule - Where It All Began

[FSSL]

What’s the point of asking what a person’s wife wears to bed? I don’t get it.

It's an unintentional revelation of that preacher's perversion.

 

[Bruh]

Just to clarify, you’re saying the definition of “extreme” is a pastor requiring (not merely suggesting) members to do an act not mentioned in the Scriptures.

On what authority does a pastor have except that which is found in scripture?

Did God forget to put a certain issue in the Bible? Or do we have an incomplete Bible?

Nothing in scripture suggests that a pastor has the authority to require something of Gods people not found in scripture.

Unless I’m missing something?

If a pastor says, this is not found in scriptures this is my opinion. I personally would find no issues with that.

 

[Walt]

I think extreme would be, requiring Gods people to do something for service, be it offering, Sunday school, visiting, preaching or just generally in everyday life…….but requiring Gods people to do something that God never requires.

As if, God forgot to put it in the Bible. If God doesn’t require it of his people why would it get put on or preached behind the pulpit?

Unless they believe the Bible is not complete? And God didn’t realize that 2025 would roll around.

All true, but the preacher who browbeat people for not doing cold-calling think and preaching that it IS "all over" the New Testament. But I find it strange that, while there are examples in the epistles, and they are full of living godly lives, there is never an exhortation to Christians in general to "go soul-winning".

 

[Bob Jones VI]

All true, but the preacher who browbeat people for not doing cold-calling think and preaching that it IS "all over" the New Testament. But I find it strange that, while there are examples in the epistles, and they are full of living godly lives, there is never an exhortation to Christians in general to "go soul-winning".

Truth. There is the Great commission given to the apostles and therefore the church, and I would add every person in it, to preach the gospel to evey creature. And there is the example of the apostle Paul of going where Christ has not been named. Then there is the Revelation 5:9 "by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation." That kind of tells us that we are supposed to be taking the gospel to all people. But the command to go door to door, or house to house is never found. So, in my mind, whatever our lives are consumed with, it should center around those things. Our money, time, efforts, everything given to the great goal that Christ left us here to do.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

If a pastor says, this is not found in scriptures this is my opinion. I personally would find no issues with that.

True, but isn’t the Bible full of examples, which are then interpreted and taught as principles? I mean, attending Sunday school can easily be an extension of the command for Christians to gather; certainly the idea of soul winning is present in scriptures. Etc.

 

[Walt]

It meant a little more than that. All David did was to cut a piece of Saul's garment to mock him and to jubilate a little. He did him no harm. He stretched forth his hand against him, and David's heart smote him for it.

Yes, I realized that when I was writing it, but I know of at least two other passages the phrase was used of harming (or killing) the king. But you are quite right.

The kings in Israel were anointed, a type of Christ.

Christ, the true King, is the Anointed One.

There is no one that can claim that title today.

I will go further. There is no one who is 'called of God' as were the OT prophets and as were the Apostles. Paul said "if one desires the office of bishop"; not if one feels called to the office.

A call of God is akin to the anointing.

Not just kings... prophets were anointed and priests were anointed. Jesus Christ is Prophet, Priest, and King, and thus the Anointed One.

 

[Bruh]

Truth. There is the Great commission given to the apostles and therefore the church, and I would add every person in it, to preach the gospel to evey creature. And there is the example of the apostle Paul of going where Christ has not been named. Then there is the Revelation 5:9 "by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation." That kind of tells us that we are supposed to be taking the gospel to all people. But the command to go door to door, or house to house is never found. So, in my mind, whatever our lives are consumed with, it should center around those things. Our money, time, efforts, everything given to the great goal that Christ left us here to do.

The average layman goes to work 5-6 days a week works 40-60 hours a week rubbing shoulders with lost men and women everyday 52 weeks a year. Goes home to wife kids and or husbands to continue living a Christ honoring life.

That my friend is telling many many people about Christ.

If a person is able to keep a good Christian testimony with the people he works with for many years……that my friend is what I’d call a successful Christian life according to scripture.

 

[Bruh]

True, but isn’t the Bible full of examples, which are then interpreted and taught as principles? I mean, attending Sunday school can easily be an extension of the command for Christians to gather; certainly the idea of soul winning is present in scriptures. Etc.

if a layman goes to work 40 plus hours a week 52 weeks a year and with Gods help keeps a Christian testimony with those people that’s the epitome of soul winning my friend.

Living a Christian life in front of lost people day after day after day after day is something only God can do. This is plainly taught in scripture.

Sunday school I believe is a good thing. Found in scripture as practiced in our American society, no. So, to teach and preach as a command from God I believe is a mistake.

Can someone benefit from Sunday school? Absolutely!

 

[Bob Jones VI]

The average layman goes to work 5-6 days a week works 40-60 hours a week rubbing shoulders with lost men and women everyday 52 weeks a year. Goes home to wife kids and or husbands to continue living a Christ honoring life.

That my friend is telling many many people about Christ.

If a person is able to keep a good Christian testimony with the people he works with for many years……that my friend is what I’d call a successful Christian life according to scripture.

I still say that there are senders and goers, and we should be doing what we can to complete the worldwide mission of Jesus.

 

[Bruh]

I still say that there are senders and goers, and we should be doing what we can to complete the worldwide mission of Jesus.

Well, I understand what you’re saying, I get it. It that’s a complete different conversation in my mind. And that’s the money it takes to go.

IF, I pay 15% in taxes, let’s just say for example I give to missions, give to the church and thats a total of another 10%.

Combined that with taxes that’s a grand total of 25% gone out of my net income and I haven’t paid for groceries and other living expenses. And I haven’t put back for retirement. Or health insurance

I’m just saying.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

Well, I understand what you’re saying, I get it. It that’s a complete different conversation in my mind. And that’s the money it takes to go.

IF, I pay 15% in taxes, let’s just say for example I give to missions, give to the church and thats a total of another 10%.

Combined that with taxes that’s a grand total of 25% gone out of my net income and I haven’t paid for groceries and other living expenses. And I haven’t put back for retirement. Or health insurance

I’m just saying.

It depends on who your king is. Is it Jesus? Or is it comfort and safety and retirement security. I am all for planning, I saved for retirement, but there's the question of "What were we left here for? If he saved us just so we could go to heaven, why doesn't he just rapture us the moment we're saved." Anyhow.

 

[Bruh]

It depends on who your king is. Is it Jesus? Or is it comfort and safety and retirement security. I am all for planning, I saved for retirement, but there's the question of "What were we left here for? If he saved us just so we could go to heaven, why doesn't he just rapture us the moment we're saved." Anyhow.

I never said that. My earlier post said that we should have good Christian testimonies with our lost coworkers.

My responsibility is to my wife and children. And if we are going by examples in the Bible if I’m not mistaken Paul was a tent maker.

Churches did give to him but he had a job to help with expenses.

Missionary’s today do not operate by the example giving in scripture.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

I never said that. My earlier post said that we should have good Christian testimonies with our lost coworkers.

My responsibility is to my wife and children. And if we are going by examples in the Bible if I’m not mistaken Paul was a tent maker.

Churches did give to him but he had a job to help with expenses.

Missionary’s today do not operate by the example giving in scripture.

Your opinion. Not everyone was like Paul. Paul himself said The worker is worthy of his wages.

 

[Bruh]

Your opinion. Not everyone was like Paul. Paul himself said The worker is worthy of his wages.

I don’t think that is my opinion. I believe he did make tents. Are there other examples in the Bible of missionaries with full time salaries given by Gods people? Yes the worker is worthy of his wages. Are there other examples of missions being done differently than the example of Paul?

 

[Bob Jones VI]

Barnabas traveled with Paul. There is nothing to indicate that he worked a full time job.

 

[Bruh]

Barnabas traveled with Paul. There is nothing to indicate that he worked a full time job.

So is it open for debate not a command? Or discuss?

 

[Bob Jones VI]

If you want to argue that missionaires can only do what Paul did, they will all have to be single. Just because we only have one example, we don't all have to be exactly like Paul. As a amtter fact, in 1 Cor 9:1-18 Paul specifically argued that it would be right for him to preach the gospel and have his wage provided for, yet he did not so that no one could accuse him. But the overall argument of the passage is that those who preach the gospel should live by it. Those who argue for the necessity of a bivocational ministry, either pastoral or missionary, have to deal with Paul's specific teaching there.

 

[Bruh]

If you want to argue that missionaires can only do what Paul did, they will all have to be single. Just because we only have one example, we don't all have to be exactly like Paul. As a amtter fact, in 1 Cor 9:1-18 Paul specifically argued that it would be right for him to preach the gospel and have his wage provided for, yet he did not so that no one could accuse him. But the overall argument of the passage is that those who preach the gospel should live by it. Those who argue for the necessity of a bivocational ministry, either pastoral or missionary, have to deal with Paul's specific teaching there.

You make some good points. I’ve had some bad experiences with pastors living above the average persons in their town and I just believe that’s wrong.

They were able to go on nice vacations and put back for retirement when the average person in the church couldn’t do either because they were giving 10% of their gross income, giving to missions and every other thing that had to do with the building programs and the such.

Were their needs met? Of course, because they worked 50-60 hours a week and didn’t have the house that the pastor and his family lived in.

Are there churches that do not operate this way? I don’t know, I haven’t walked into one that doesn’t.

I’m not bitter I’m not angry as some would say. At this point in my life I’m just scratching my head and saying….hold up, wait a minute, are y’all seeing what I’m seeing here

 

[ALAYMAN]

if a layman goes to work 40 plus hours a week 52 weeks a year and with Gods help keeps a Christian testimony with those people that’s the epitome of soul winning my friend.

Living a Christian life in front of lost people day after day after day after day is something only God can do. This is plainly taught in scripture.

Sunday school I believe is a good thing. Found in scripture as practiced in our American society, no. So, to teach and preach as a command from God I believe is a mistake.

Can someone benefit from Sunday school? Absolutely!

Living the gospel and verbally proclaiming it should not be mutually exclusive concepts.

 

[Bruh]

Living the gospel and verbally proclaiming it should not be mutually exclusive concepts.

I don’t think they are. My point was that it’s much harder to live day to day in front of lost people for Christ.

And as the opportunity arises then of course share the gospel with the person that has gained your trust.