Dictatorial Preacher Rule - Where It All Began

DrHuk&Duck said:
I’m still not getting it. I fully understand that many of these churches can be legalistic and intrusive, but the point of asking such a strange question about bedtime attire seems out of left field. Are the anti-pants churches inquiring whether the women wear pants in any setting (even bed) as a gotcha opportunity? Is this the point of the question?
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One aspect of this is that these guys all have to keep up with the Joneses (the standard bearers at Hyles Anderson, Oklahoma Baptist, Texas Bob, etc). The spirit is one of one-upmanship. They wear their militancy as a badge of honor, being perceived as more "holy" than the other guy if they maintain higher standards. These questionnaires show the other small fish in the pond that they are one of the last ones keeping the banner of the old paths high.
 
It all started when preachers found the verse, touch not God's anointed. Just saying
 
ALAYMAN said:
One aspect of this is that these guys all have to keep up with the Joneses (the standard bearers at Hyles Anderson, Oklahoma Baptist, Texas Bob, etc). The spirit is one of one-upmanship. They wear their militancy as a badge of honor, being perceived as more "holy" than the other guy if they maintain higher standards. These questionnaires show the other small fish in the pond that they are one of the last ones keeping the banner of the old paths high.
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I know the temptation of this kind of attitude. In the first couple years of my life as a Christian, I experienced a massive turn around from being anti-church to being pro church. I was also developing into a staunch conservative politically. Combine those two aspects and I found myself going zealously against what I used to be. My exposure to IFBdom fed the fire of my zealous attitude.

I think history has borne out that the PCC crowd, while stodgy and somewhat zealous, has been considerably more balanced than many others within the IFB camp. Therefore I can't fix my temptation to overdo on anything but myself.

I am not trying to downplay the excesses of the IFBX crowd.. but I know the draw. Fortunately for me, the Holy Spirit kept me from going off the edge.
 
I always thought the conservative, BJU leaning IFB church I grew up in was pretty far out there, but I guess there must be some that are even more extreme. Personally, based on everything I’ve read on this forum about the churches affiliated with Hyles Anderson College, I think HAC might be a little more extreme than BJU.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
I’m still not getting it. I fully understand that many of these churches can be legalistic and intrusive, but the point of asking such a strange question about bedtime attire seems out of left field. Are the anti-pants churches inquiring whether the women wear pants in any setting (even bed) as a gotcha opportunity? Is this the point of the question?
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Keep in mind that there's a kind of arms race between some of these IFB guys. They're literally trying to be holier than thou. So one pastor forbids women to wear jeans, but permits culottes, since they're baggy and not too revealing. The next guy bans those, too, on the technicality that there's three holes instead of two, so they're technically pants. It's just a few laps on the purity spiral to banning women wearing pajama pants to bed with their husbands--or the policy at PCC a decade ago, where if the fire alarm went off, girls in the dorm were required to wear a skirt to cover up their pajama pants while escaping the flames.

I assume wearing nothing to bed is more permissible than pajamas. That said I recall a post on one of the long-gone incarnations of the FFF in which it was said that one particular IFB big shot boasted he'd never seen his wife naked. That purity spiral drills down deep.

This isn't just a Baptist thing, either. Some of those old-line Pentecostal/Holiness denominations have some pretty far-out dress standards, too.
 
Ransom said:
Keep in mind that there's a kind of arms race between some of these IFB guys. They're literally trying to be holier than thou. So one pastor forbids women to wear jeans, but permits culottes, since they're baggy and not too revealing. The next guy bans those, too, on the technicality that there's three holes instead of two, so they're technically pants. It's just a few laps on the purity spiral to banning women wearing pajama pants to bed with their husbands--or the policy at PCC a decade ago, where if the fire alarm went off, girls in the dorm were required to wear a skirt to cover up their pajama pants while escaping the flames.

I assume wearing nothing to bed is more permissible than pajamas. That said I recall a post on one of the long-gone incarnations of the FFF in which it was said that one particular IFB big shot boasted he'd never seen his wife naked. That purity spiral drills down deep.

This isn't just a Baptist thing, either. Some of those old-line Pentecostal/Holiness denominations have some pretty far-out dress standards, too.
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Out of curiosity, if you had to make a ranking of this type of extremism within the IFB college circle, how would you rank the schools? I know Bob Jones has mellowed considerably in the last 15 to 20 years, and I guess PCC has mellowed a little bit. I have no idea about the others.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Out of curiosity, if you had to make a ranking of this type of extremism within the IFB college circle, how would you rank the schools?
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I'd have to punt on that question. It's beyond my knowledge. Maybe someone else can pick up on it.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Out of curiosity, if you had to make a ranking of this type of extremism within the IFB college circle, how would you rank the schools? I know Bob Jones has mellowed considerably in the last 15 to 20 years, and I guess PCC has mellowed a little bit. I have no idea about the others.
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I think the best way to answer this question is to research their respective websites. Look at the pictures they post... They'll give something of an idea... Read their doctrinal statements/beliefs and look for buzzwords especially as they relate to the KJV. For instance, PCC has a statement about the KJV which says it is a reliable translation instead of going whole hog(wash) and declaring it to be the preserved Word for the English language. If you can find their handbooks that is a very useful insight.
 
abcaines said:
I think the best way to answer this question is to research their respective websites. Look at the pictures they post... They'll give something of an idea... Read their doctrinal statements/beliefs and look for buzzwords especially as they relate to the KJV. For instance, PCC has a statement about the KJV which says it is a reliable translation instead of going whole hog(wash) and declaring it to be the preserved Word for the English language. If you can find their handbooks that is a very useful insight.
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I agree, very reasonable advice. But the more I think about my question to Ransom, and one which I think adequately applies to both my question and this thread itself, I think we should first define “extremism” in Christianity. (I think it’s too simple to just say follow the Bible because it does require interpretation and extrapolation.)
 
illinoisguy said:
That's no joke - some Baptist churches do ask prospective missionaries to certify that their wives will not be allowed to wear pants on the field:

"As previously stated, we believe that any missionary supported by Lighthouse Baptist Church should be of the same qualifications and convictions of any staff member or leadership of our church. Our staff and leadership all seek to lead by example in their daily living. For instance, our leadership does not attend movies, listen to worldly music or Contemporary Christian music, and the ladies avoid wearing pants."

Anybody remember how some years ago, Texas Bob Gray in his magazine "The Baptist" identified and exposed IFB colleges that allow female students in their dorms to wear pajama pants? He generated some controversy and angry replies, such as these:

"In regard to the May/June 1998 issue of THE BAPTIST, your article comparing 50 Bible Colleges in the United States, Mexico and Canada, our college is listed as one who allows our female students to wear 'slacks and shorts' in the dormitory. This is not true. . . . It grieves me that with our friendship of many years, an untrue statement of this magnitude was printed." - Tom Malone, Midwestern Baptist College.

"I must inform you that what you have listed about Fairhaven Baptist College was about as accurate as your inflated attendance and baptism numbers. . . . If you really want to nail down what your crowd's Bible colleges believe, why don't you ask what they believe about promoting whoremongers in the pulpit or pornographers? Ask them how much they swear, curse, or tell dirty stories. You guys act so tough and spiritual, yet you can't even stand against adultery. Why don't you ask how many girls were soiled at Hyles Anderson?" - Roger Voegtlin, Fairhaven Baptist College.

"We have worked hard to establish our testimony and credibility, you in one article have besmirched that testimony! . . . We have held to a no pants policy since the early '70s. . . . Bob, I'm ashamed of you. You are not fit to be the editor of a paper. This article lacks honesty and facts." - Fred Schindler, Landmark Baptist College.

"I am writing to you to refute the erroneous information printed concerning our Institute as found in the Bible College Survey. . . . Our lady students have never been given permission to wear shorts or pants on or off campus." - R.T. Rigsby, Norris Bible Baptist Institute.
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How sad and disturbing that these men said, we would never allow this…what they should’ve said, only a pervert wants to know what teenage girls wear to bed.
 
illinoisguy said:
That's no joke - some Baptist churches do ask prospective missionaries to certify that their wives will not be allowed to wear pants on the field:

"As previously stated, we believe that any missionary supported by Lighthouse Baptist Church should be of the same qualifications and convictions of any staff member or leadership of our church. Our staff and leadership all seek to lead by example in their daily living. For instance, our leadership does not attend movies, listen to worldly music or Contemporary Christian music, and the ladies avoid wearing pants."

Anybody remember how some years ago, Texas Bob Gray in his magazine "The Baptist" identified and exposed IFB colleges that allow female students in their dorms to wear pajama pants? He generated some controversy and angry replies, such as these:

"In regard to the May/June 1998 issue of THE BAPTIST, your article comparing 50 Bible Colleges in the United States, Mexico and Canada, our college is listed as one who allows our female students to wear 'slacks and shorts' in the dormitory. This is not true. . . . It grieves me that with our friendship of many years, an untrue statement of this magnitude was printed." - Tom Malone, Midwestern Baptist College.

"I must inform you that what you have listed about Fairhaven Baptist College was about as accurate as your inflated attendance and baptism numbers. . . . If you really want to nail down what your crowd's Bible colleges believe, why don't you ask what they believe about promoting whoremongers in the pulpit or pornographers? Ask them how much they swear, curse, or tell dirty stories. You guys act so tough and spiritual, yet you can't even stand against adultery. Why don't you ask how many girls were soiled at Hyles Anderson?" - Roger Voegtlin, Fairhaven Baptist College.

"We have worked hard to establish our testimony and credibility, you in one article have besmirched that testimony! . . . We have held to a no pants policy since the early '70s. . . . Bob, I'm ashamed of you. You are not fit to be the editor of a paper. This article lacks honesty and facts." - Fred Schindler, Landmark Baptist College.

"I am writing to you to refute the erroneous information printed concerning our Institute as found in the Bible College Survey. . . . Our lady students have never been given permission to wear shorts or pants on or off campus." - R.T. Rigsby, Norris Bible Baptist Institute.
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Reminds me of "The Music Man". We've got trouble right here in River City.
 
Jo said:
Reminds me of "The Music Man". We've got trouble right here in River City.
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Dr. Evans, longtime president at HAC, once told me that "The Music Man" was one of his favorite musicals. I can't help but chuckle knowing he understood the meaning behind the song, "Trouble in Music City."
 
  • TRUTH!
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Ransom said:
Keep in mind that there's a kind of arms race between some of these IFB guys. They're literally trying to be holier than thou.
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I nominate a certain William Doyal Thomas (1932-2018, pastor of Philadelphia Baptist Church in Decatur, Alabama) as a winner in the IFBx Holier Than Thou Sweepstakes, based on this righteous blast against pagan worldly practices that was published in the March 2024 issue of the "Berea Baptist Banner," published in Mantachie, Mississippi:

"If we insist upon manmade systems and practices that are idolatrous, we shall indeed reap the corruptions that are produced. Mission boards and Sunday School Boards, and brotherhoods, and WMUs . . . and what about Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny, and Christmas trees, and pictures of the Lord, and bazaars, and pool tables, and gyms, and gimmicks and inducements . . . [and then he goes on to take a swipe at Christmas]: Can proclamation be made by the satanic system we know as Romanism (papalism) ever render Christ-mass anything more than the paganism of Babylon? Can Mission Boards, etc, [be] rendered scriptural when they are not?"

As you can see, some IFB preachers still share the Music Man's concern about pool tables in River City. (Admittedly, this screed may have been originally composed some decades ago, but it was reprinted a mere one year ago, by folks who feel that we need this type of admonition).
 
  • TRUTH!
Reactions: Jo
DrHuk&Duck said:
I’m still not getting it. I fully understand that many of these churches can be legalistic and intrusive, but the point of asking such a strange question about bedtime attire seems out of left field. Are the anti-pants churches inquiring whether the women wear pants in any setting (even bed) as a gotcha opportunity? Is this the point of the question?
Click to expand...
Its a weird twisted thing following from the trend that started in th 60's. Women started wearing pants, and Fundamentalists took Deuteronomy 22:5 "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment; for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God." and their application is that because traditionally, culturally in America, men wear pants and women wear dresses, a woman weaing pants was abomination. And even though it became culturally acceptable for women to wear pants, it was ensconced in Fundamentalism as an unchanging standard. I even heard Jack Hyles say that Jesus wore pants. All the Jews wore pants. They did not wear robes.

The longer it went on, the more they tried to define it, until the definition, in Bob Gray's case, became, anything that had legs in it, even pajama pants or shorts, was sinful.
 
@DrHuk&Duck it’s a slippery slope. You start wearing pajama pants in the house and that leads to being comfortable enough to wearing them to go and check the mail and once your conscious is ok with that then that leads to buying work pants only to do yard work but now you need to run to the store very quickly to at some point just casually wearing them all the time.

This was the basic explanation given to me years ago by a well respected man in the IFB church we attended.

My experience tells me, IFB in general sexualize all most everything and I mean everything.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
I always thought the conservative, BJU leaning IFB church I grew up in was pretty far out there, but I guess there must be some that are even more extreme. Personally, based on everything I’ve read on this forum about the churches affiliated with Hyles Anderson College, I think HAC might be a little more extreme than BJU.
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Absolutely. Bob Jones University isn't even King James only. They've always used the critical text in Greek classes.
 
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