Dictatorial Preacher Rule - Where It All Began

[DrHuk&Duck]

Um ... yes?

You've just discovered the Protestant work ethic: that work, as an act of worship, should be done to the best of one's abilities.

The term I was thinking of is “itinerant preacher,” but I see that means something completely different than what I thought.

 

[4everfsu]

i have never been a member of a baptist church... .. was saved through the bus ministry of one... and then i have visited baptist churches a few times with friends and distant family..... .. but was not moved to join... . ..in fact it was just the opposite.. ......

What denom do you belong to? Just curious, not that it matter.

 

[Bruh]

Nothing's wrong with the pastor making the same. My question is why it ought to be so as a matter of principle. Not all professions are equal. Would you apply the same principle to the salary of a doctor or lawyer?

It’s wrong for a pastor to live below the people he is serving and below the poverty line.

But because it is a ministry I do believe it would be wrong for a pastor to live above the people he is serving.

If it’s strictly a job career then by all means go make as much as possible as laymen try to do. Nothing wrong with that.

The pastor is as much human as I am and because of this in my opinion it’s a safe guard for the pastor not to live financially above the people.

Because if he does, again because he’s human like myself, it would be very easy for him to wonder why the church doesn’t give all the time, to all these projects. Or why does this man work every Saturday or why does this man work 2 Sundays every month?

Why would he begin at some point to think this way? Well because, he has more than enough monies and if the people were as fiscally responsible as he is then they’d be able to do what he does.

Therefore, he’s unable to relate to the community and or the members of the church.

 

[Bruh]

You seem a bit prone to hyperbolic misrepresentation. I never said anything of the sort about "it's always the people". I implied some people perceive slight when none is intended.

Let me give you an example. One of my favorite tv preachers was Adrian Rogers. He had a way of saying sharp quips with such Grace that people often didn't take offense, some of his speech being harsher than others.

For instance, he would say things like "if you're not a soulwinner then you're not right with God". I could see how somebody could take offense at that. But if you listen to the balance of his preaching, you'd know he cared about his people. Matter of fact, abcaines was a member/attendee of his church (and likewise no fan of the ministry style you don't care for), but I bet abcaines skin is thick enough to not take offense at challenges like Rogers often preached. In such a ministry one could perceive being attacked from the pulpit, when in reality they were merely being admonished to have a heart for Evangelism (ie, not be lukewarm).

And the whole point of that response that you decontextualized about "perception" was that your experiences, as mere anecdotal evidence, might not be representative of the totality of the picture regarding IFBs.

And I believe this might be the key to our disagreement.

I’ve not been to every IFB church. But have many examples that if I had the time I’d give.

Friends and family alike. No, no our IFB church isn’t like that. Ok, we are visiting family or friends and go to church with them. And I’m not even exaggerating a little bit.

We go, every single time the pastor or Sunday school teacher is teaching on standards or KJVO or something to that end……every time and I mean every time.

And every time we leave my wife and I laugh.

It’s kinda like the Democrats awhile back after the election were saying, we never made big over trans right or men in women sports. It was the republicans.
And that’s the answer the IFB people give that say there’re not like other IFB churches.

Here’s the key I believe to our disagreement. I believe that there are waaaay more IFB churches that are like this than you do.

 

[aleshanee]

What denom do you belong to? Just curious, not that it matter.

after i left the lutheran church i was at for many years i joined a christian congregational church... kawaiahao... that;s where my sunday school class is..... ... ...but i sometimes fill in with an ensemble at a catholic church when asked.... .. (not often now days... they got their regular full roster of fill ins back)... .. basilica of our lady of peace ... that;s the church my natural sister took me to when she first brought me to hawaii..... but i am not a member there and never was... .. i was actually denied catholic baptism as a baby and thus prohibited from membersship..... (at least in conservative latin mass churches)...... because of what my mom did for a living and because i was bastard born.....

those 2 churches are the oldest churches on the island.... both are well over 200 years old with both current sanctuarys built in the early to mid 1800s....

 

[ALAYMAN]

And I believe this might be the key to our disagreement....


Here’s the key I believe to our disagreement. I believe that there are waaaay more IFB churches that are like this than you do.

Do you remember Post number 126? I'm not telling you that all ifb churches are good and free from abuse and authoritarianism, and I'm not saying that any good ifb churches are in your area. What I am saying is, unless you live in an absolute vacuum, there are typically churches near people that are decent churches. It's your Job to find one. People who want to stay in churches and be abused, it's hard to help them.

 

[Bruh]

Do you remember Post number 126? I'm not telling you that all ifb churches are good and free from abuse and authoritarianism, and I'm not saying that any good ifb churches are in your area. What I am saying is, unless you live in an absolute vacuum, there are typically churches near people that are decent churches. It's your Job to find one. People who want to stay in churches and be abused, it's hard to help them.

We agree

 

[abcaines]

Does one necessarily have to attend an IFB church? If that's your preference and there's a good one nearby, wonderful. But a little flexibility can go a long way in finding a church. Now, I'm in no way suggesting flexibility regarding sound doctrinal principles, but attending a church that is a tiny bit different on issues that aren't make or break may be educational.

I've said before, I was about a dozen years separated from IFB circles. Having quit a church that turned out to be a bit too loose with their take on the Scriptures, I began to consider getting back to my IFB roots when I happened upon a Calvary Chapel. I was amazed to find teachings there that I hadn't heard since my days in the IFB. One thing I had never given much thought but was eye opening was CC's priority on expository teaching. Now, I can't imagine myself getting into another church unless expository teaching is the norm. Not saying I'd refuse to attend a church that uses a more topical approach, but while there is a good CC around, that will be my preference.

 

[Baptist Renegade]

Does one necessarily have to attend an IFB church? If that's your preference and there's a good one nearby, wonderful. But a little flexibility can go a long way in finding a church. Now, I'm in no way suggesting flexibility regarding sound doctrinal principles, but attending a church that is a tiny bit different on issues that aren't make or break may be educational.

I've said before, I was about a dozen years separated from IFB circles. Having quit a church that turned out to be a bit too loose with their take on the Scriptures, I began to consider getting back to my IFB roots when I happened upon a Calvary Chapel. I was amazed to find teachings there that I hadn't heard since my days in the IFB. One thing I had never given much thought but was eye opening was CC's priority on expository teaching. Now, I can't imagine myself getting into another church unless expository teaching is the norm. Not saying I'd refuse to attend a church that uses a more topical approach, but while there is a good CC around, that will be my preference.

I owe a debt of gratitude to Chuck Smith and the Calvary Chapel crowd in regards to their emphasis on expository preaching. I recall crying out to God telling him I really didn't want to be such a rebel at the "Model IFB Church" I was a member of at the time. I was in my car listening to preaching on the Calvary Satellite Network and the Holy Spirit brought it to my attention asking "Do you have a problem with this preaching? Why or why not?" I thought about it for a moment and responded "No! In fact I find this teaching and preaching quite refreshing and encouraging!" The Holy Spirit impressed upon me "There is your answer! You are not a rebellious or disobedient child! You have a hunger and a desire for my word and to follow my leading! Now follow me and I will lead you beside the still waters you are longing for!" Shortly thereafter, I was able to confidently and courageously walk away from the "IFB World" and never look back! One of the things that held me captive for so long was that I was so locked into the "KJV-Only" mindset and that such was a litmus test regarding whether a church was a true, biblical church or one of those liberale, aprostolate, sissified churches where the preachers had lace on their underware amen! Since then, I have come to the conclusion that a "King James Bible Believer" is an oxymoron because they do not actually read and study the Bible they claim to believe and I have no problem with putting the mirror in their face so they can see who the true liberal apostate Bible rejecters are! Now say hallelujah! AMEN!

Of course I am much more in line with John MacArthur these days than with Calvary Chapel but at the time, I was so biased against John MacArthur that there was no way I was going to have his teaching or preaching in my car! I owe John MacArthur a debt of grattitude as well - along with a profound, profuse apology for drinking the IFB "Kool-Aid" that made me 'hate him' for as long as I did!

 

[abcaines]

I owe a debt of gratitude to Chuck Smith and the Calvary Chapel crowd in regards to their emphasis on expository preaching. I recall crying out to God telling him I really didn't want to be such a rebel at the "Model IFB Church" I was a member of at the time. I was in my car listening to preaching on the Calvary Satellite Network and the Holy Spirit brought it to my attention asking "Do you have a problem with this preaching? Why or why not?" I thought about it for a moment and responded "No! In fact I find this teaching and preaching quite refreshing and encouraging!" The Holy Spirit impressed upon me "There is your answer! You are not a rebellious or disobedient child! You have a hunger and a desire for my word and to follow my leading! Now follow me and I will lead you beside the still waters you are longing for!" Shortly thereafter, I was able to confidently and courageously walk away from the "IFB World" and never look back! One of the things that held me captive for so long was that I was so locked into the "KJV-Only" mindset and that such was a litmus test regarding whether a church was a true, biblical church or one of those liberale, aprostolate, sissified churches where the preachers had lace on their underware amen! Since then, I have come to the conclusion that a "King James Bible Believer" is an oxymoron because they do not actually read and study the Bible they claim to believe and I have no problem with putting the mirror in their face so they can see who the true liberal apostate Bible rejecters are! Now say hallelujah! AMEN!

Of course I am much more in line with John MacArthur these days than with Calvary Chapel but at the time, I was so biased against John MacArthur that there was no way I was going to have his teaching or preaching in my car! I owe John MacArthur a debt of grattitude as well - along with a profound, profuse apology for drinking the IFB "Kool-Aid" that made me 'hate him' for as long as I did!

There are definitely differences between MacArthur and CCs. For a time, MacArthur was invited to speak at CC functions. It came to an abrupt end when MacArthur published a treatise very critical of CCs. His study Bible is still very popular among CC pastors.