Dealing with divorce.

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Castor Muscular]..."but what if they were crack-addicted devil worshiping homosexual swingers?" [/quote]

Then they probably belong to the Episcopalian church? (I think that was the last church I heard slammed from the pulpit.)

 

[Castor Muscular]

I didn't realize ALAYMAN appeared in a movie, but this is indisputably him in his leather suit, talking about his favorite subject.

Will Patton in "After Hours"

 

[Biker]

Yes. Maybe we can roll the dice to see who among us goes first...

1. Invent a sin
2. Link said sin(s) to real or imagined people
3. Ignore scripture provided, ignore requests to provide scripture
4. Mix in additional sinereos
5. Link said sinners to church discipline
6. Convince us how righteous it is to abuse these folks
7. Rinse and Repeat

It's also important to start with a general scenario like, "What if a remarried couple wants to join the church", and then when someone doesn't respond the way you wanted them to, you thrown in new information like, "but what if they were crack-addicted devil worshiping homosexual swingers?"

  LOL!! with open toed shoes...

 

[Mathew Ward]

You are right I did not.  But your original question about the folks for membership was answered.

I'm not sure what you mean.  Could you clarify?

  Before we rush into all of these what if's I figured it would be best to turn them back to you. Now if you believe that all divorces that lack Biblical warrant are immoral, do you plan to interview any couple that has divorce in their background and discipline them?

Bumped for Alayman

If the church has knowledge of the divorce, and that it was not for Biblically justifiable reasons, then it seems warranted to make sure that they are at least aware of the Biblical expectations for marriage, and that repentance for the grievous wrong has taken place.  I don't think it would be improper to see that the one who was guilty of the improper actions in the divorce make some sort of effort (if they have not already done so) to seek forgiveness for their wrongs.  And if child support issues were in view that should also be dealt with to make sure that Biblically the individual is shouldering their proper care for the children.

The folks who divorce, but not for Biblically justifiable reasons and remarry are they committing adultery? If you conclude they are, will you not let them attend or be members?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Bumped for Alayman....

The folks who divorce, but not for Biblically justifiable reasons and remarry are they committing adultery? If you conclude they are, will you not let them attend or be members?

I answered your post in reply#32, where I stated...

Long story short, if they have repented of the sin and reasonably attempted to make things right with the folk they sinned against then I wouldn't have any problem with them rejoining membership.

Having stated that, I do believe it is clear that Paul's instruction on the matter that Christian people who divorce should remain unmarried, else they make a bad situation worse.  The general direction of action I've suggested is not unique to some sort of legalistic pharasaical circle of churches, lest Macarthur, Piper, and a host of other evangelical churches be mislabeled as such.  I also think that is is fair to say that much of the negative responses in this thread portray an American aversion to Biblical church discipline.  It's easier to just avoid the problem than deal with it, just like a permissive parent will do with a mischievous child.  And it's easier for the congregant to just move their membership to another autonomous church, much the same way IFBxers pastors who get caught with their pants down just go start another church or join one that is none the wiser to their dirty deeds.  That's not repentance, but rather avoidance, and is unknown to the pattern of accountability expected in the maintenance of purity in the church of Christ.

 

[ALAYMAN]

LOL!! with open toed shoes...

a dude with couch cuddling issues flirting with another dude who can't go three posts without making some double entendre or bondage reference....


lol indeed.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Question re-worded. How should the church treat "Gentiles and tax collectors"? That is how we are to treat those who rebuff personal correction in front of witnesses.

Ultimately, if the process must be taken to conclusion, as heathens and publicans, meaning religious fellowship and cooperation is to be severed.

I would have to agree with CU and rsc2a on this one.  The divorce is over and done with and the parties have remarried so there is no turning back on this one.

The marriage may be over, but the offense may still linger if no reconcilation and forgiveness has been sought.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Bumped for Alayman....

The folks who divorce, but not for Biblically justifiable reasons and remarry are they committing adultery? If you conclude they are, will you not let them attend or be members?

I answered your post in reply#32, where I stated...

Long story short, if they have repented of the sin and reasonably attempted to make things right with the folk they sinned against then I wouldn't have any problem with them rejoining membership.

Having stated that, I do believe it is clear that Paul's instruction on the matter that Christian people who divorce should remain unmarried, else they make a bad situation worse.  The general direction of action I've suggested is not unique to some sort of legalistic pharasaical circle of churches, lest Macarthur, Piper, and a host of other evangelical churches be mislabeled as such.  I also think that is is fair to say that much of the negative responses in this thread portray an American aversion to Biblical church discipline.  It's easier to just avoid the problem than deal with it, just like a permissive parent will do with a mischievous child.  And it's easier for the congregant to just move their membership to another autonomous church, much the same way IFBxers pastors who get caught with their pants down just go start another church or join one that is none the wiser to their dirty deeds.  That's not repentance, but rather avoidance, and is unknown to the pattern of accountability expected in the maintenance of purity in the church of Christ.

So are they committing adultery?  I missed that answer.  Someone who gets divorced for an unwarranted bible reason and remarries.  Not in regards to the other marriage...

Matthew 5:31-32  It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

 

[ALAYMAN]

So are they committing adultery?  I missed that answer.  Someone who gets divorced for an unwarranted bible reason and remarries.  Not in regards to the other marriage...

Matthew 5:31-32  It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

It is irrelevant to the point I'm making.  Whether they are or are not committing adultery is not of primary importance within the scope of my reasoning.  The hurts and scars that may still linger from the offended party ought to be addressed by the one who inflicted them.  That is my main area of concern as far as reconcilation (after one party has remarried).

 

[Mathew Ward]

So are they committing adultery?  I missed that answer.  Someone who gets divorced for an unwarranted bible reason and remarries.  Not in regards to the other marriage...

Matthew 5:31-32  It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

It is irrelevant to the point I'm making.  Whether they are or are not committing adultery is not of primary importance within the scope of my reasoning.  The hurts and scars that may still linger from the offended party ought to be addressed by the one who inflicted them.  That is my main area of concern as far as reconcilation (after one party has remarried).

With an American aversion to Biblical church discipline, as you stated, I would say this is also something else you would need to address.

 

[ALAYMAN]

With an American aversion to Biblical church discipline, as you stated, I would say this is also something else you would need to address.

huh?

 

[Castor Muscular]

It is irrelevant to the point I'm making.  Whether they are or are not committing adultery is not of primary importance within the scope of my reasoning.  The hurts and scars that may still linger from the offended party ought to be addressed by the one who inflicted them.  That is my main area of concern as far as reconcilation (after one party has remarried).

So -- circumstances of a past divorce are what matter to your church, but active adultery is irrelevant.  Gotcha. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

So -- circumstances of a past divorce are what matter to your church, but active adultery is irrelevant.  Gotcha.

Amazing, now you want serious dialogue?

No, what you want is to play pinata with a perceived legalist, not honest discussion.  What you present is a false horn of dilemma.

 

[Mathew Ward]

With an American aversion to Biblical church discipline, as you stated, I would say this is also something else you would need to address.

huh?

Their committing adultery, if they were divorced for unwarranted Biblical reasons and remarried and now wanted to join your church.  Unless your church has an American aversion to Biblical church discipline.  Would adultery come under the realm of church discipline?

 

[Castor Muscular]

Amazing, now you want serious dialogue?

No, what you want is to play pinata with a perceived legalist, not honest discussion.  What you present is a false horn of dilemma.

Well, I must admit, it's difficult to resist temptation with such an easy target. 

But it is not a false dilemma.  It's just a dilemma you will by all means avoid. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

Their committing adultery, if they were divorced for unwarranted Biblical reasons and remarried and now wanted to join your church.  Unless your church has an American aversion to Biblical church discipline.  Would adultery come under the realm of church discipline?

You're playin' games bro.


Would a second divorce remedy the matter?

 

[Mathew Ward]

Their committing adultery, if they were divorced for unwarranted Biblical reasons and remarried and now wanted to join your church.  Unless your church has an American aversion to Biblical church discipline.  Would adultery come under the realm of church discipline?

You're playin' games bro.


Would a second divorce remedy the matter?

I am not sure how I am playing games on a thread and situation you brought up for your church?  I am asking you for your take on these verses and apply it to church discipline paradigm.

Matthew 5:31-32  It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

If you are going to be consistent then you have to deal with the other side of unwarranted biblical reasons for divorce, especially if you are going to take about all the negative posts on churches being afraid to discipline biblically.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I am not sure how I am playing games on a thread and situation you brought up for your church?  I am asking you for your take on these verses and apply it to church discipline paradigm.

You didn't answer my question.  That's three times in this thread alone.  In baseball, you'd be out.

So is it your solution that church discipline would call for another divorce? 

 

[Mathew Ward]

I am not sure how I am playing games on a thread and situation you brought up for your church?  I am asking you for your take on these verses and apply it to church discipline paradigm.

You didn't answer my question.  That's three times in this thread alone.  In baseball, you'd be out.

So is it your solution that church discipline would call for another divorce? 

If a couple came to join our church, their divorce would not play a part in them being members.  Their child support would not be an issue for membership so for our church a non issue.

Since it is an issue in you church now in order for you to be consistent you will have to look at the verses posted and make a consistent policy.  If I had your position on the unwarranted biblical reason for divorce and no aversion to church discipline I would not let them be members (that is how I see your position).

 

[ALAYMAN]

If a couple came to join our church, their divorce would not play a part in them being members.  Their child support would not be an issue for membership so for our church a non issue.

Since it is an issue in you church now in order for you to be consistent you will have to look at the verses posted and make a consistent policy.  If I had your position on the unwarranted biblical reason for divorce and no aversion to church discipline I would not let them be members (that is how I see your position).

I don't believe it is a correct Biblical position to consider the second marriage as "perpetual adultery", therefore your assumptions about the way to proceed are moot, as I said originally it was not in the scope of my considerations.