Cindy filed for divorce.

Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.
 
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

 
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.
 
It's almost as if we are saying, "At First Baptist Church, Hammond, you need to learn to serve God despite the despots in the pulpit",  :-[  and with that being the case that has played out in my life for the past 25 years, it does give me great pause. The nearly two year period since the scandal broke has not yet been enough time for me to reprogram myself from the last 25 years of deception from the pulpit.

There are bumps in the road to recovery. I told Pastor Wilkerson that an important part of my healing process from the events that have happened here at FBC in the last two administrations is honesty. Truth is paramount. I wish for no false veneers, I wish for no spin or manipulation.

He told me people will always disappoint but Jesus never will.

May I respectfully say -- does anyone honestly believe when they tell that to someone that it is revelatory? That is in fact the crux of salvation. His Perfection redeems our hopeless imperfection.

So, once saved, we can expect no better from our selves, our pastors, our peers...because we are not perfect, just forgiven. Seems a little trite...?

This brings to mind an excerpt from "The Divine Conspiracy" by Dallas Willard:

  "The bumper sticker gently imposes its little message: Christians Aren't Perfect, Just Forgiven. A popular song of some years ago said that the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls. When there are no subways, bumper stickers will do.

    JUST forgiven? And is that really all there is to being a Christian? The gift of eternal life comes down to that? Quite a retreat from living an eternal kind of life now!

    Christians certainly aren't perfect. There will always be need for improvement. But there is a lot of room between being perfect and being 'just forgiven' as that is nowadays understood. You could be much more than forgiven and still not be perfect. Perhaps you could even be a person in whom Jesus' eternal kind of life predominates and still have room for growth.

    By now this bit of bumper-sticker theology has leaped out of traffic and onto Christian trinkets. There is a little bookmark adorned with flowers, bows, green sprigs, and fourteen tiny pink hearts, with a tassel at top. In the center is a wide-eyed teddy bear that looks as if it might have inadvertently just done something naughty. The message below is -- as you will now expect -- 'Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven.'

    Well, it certainly needs to be said that Christians are forgiven. And it needs to be said that forgiveness does not depend on being perfect. But is that really what the slogan communicates?

    Unfortunately, it is not. What the slogan really conveys is that forgiveness alone is what Christianity is all about, what is genuinely essential to it.

    It says that you can have faith in Christ that brings forgiveness, while in every other respect your life is no different from that of others who have no faith in Christ at all. This view so pleasingly presented on bumper stickers and trinkets has deep historical roots. It is by now worked out in many sober tomes of theology, lived out by multitudes of those who sincerely self-identify as Christians."

pps. 35, 36 "The Divine Conspiracy - Rediscovering Our Hidden Life in God" by Dallas Willard










 
brainisengaged said:
It's almost as if we are saying, "At First Baptist Church, Hammond, you need to learn to serve God despite the despots in the pulpit",  :-[  and with that being the case that has played out in my life for the past 25 years, it does give megreatpause. The nearly two years since the scandal broke has not yet been enough time for me to reprogram myself from the last 25 years of deception from the pulpit.

There are bumps in the road to recovery. I told Pastor Wilkerson that an important part of my healing process from the events that have happened here at FBC in the last two administrations is honesty. Truth is paramount. I wish for no false veneers, I wish for no spin or manipulation.

He told me people will always disappoint but Jesus never will.

May I respectfully say -- does anyone honestly believe when they tell that to someone that it is revelatory? That is in fact the crux of salvation. His Perfection redeems our hopeless imperfection.

So, once saved, we can expect no better from our selves, our pastors, our peers...because we are not perfect, just forgiven. Seems a little trite...?

This brings to mind an excerpt from "The Divine Conspiracy" by Dallas Willard:

  "The bumper sticker gently imposes its little message: Christians Aren't Perfect, Just Forgiven. A popular song of some years ago said that the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls. When there are no subways, bumper stickers will do.

    JUST forgiven? And is that really all there is to being a Christian? The gift of eternal life comes down to that? Quite a retreat from living an eternal kind of life now!

    Christians certainly aren't perfect. There will always be need for improvement. But there is a lot of room between being perfect and being 'just forgiven' as that is nowadays understood. You could be much more than forgiven and still not be perfect. Perhaps you could even be a person in whom Jesus' eternal kind of life predominates and still have room for growth.

    By now this bit of bumper-sticker theology has leaped out of traffic and onto Christian trinkets. There is a little bookmark adorned with flowers, bows, green sprigs, and fourteen tiny pink hearts, with a tassel at top. In the center is a wide-eyed teddy bear that looks as if it might have inadvertently just done something naughty. The message below is -- as you will now expect -- 'Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven.'

    Well, it certainly needs to be sais that Christians are forgiven. And it needs to be said that forgiveness does not depend on being perfect. But is that really what the slogan communicates?

    Unfortunately, it is not. What the slogan really conveys is that forgiveness alone is what Christianity is all about, what is genuinely essential to it.

    It says that you can have faith in Christ that brings forgiveness, while in every other respect your life is no different from that of others who have no faith in Christ at all. This view so pleasingly presented on bumper stickers and trinkets has deep historical roots. It is by now worked out in many sober tomes of theology, lived out by multitudes of those who sincerely self-identify as Christians."

pps. 35, 36 "The Divine Conspiracy - Rediscovering Our Hidden Life in God" by Dallas Willard

Really good post.  I would submit the sincere meat of the word is not doctrine, It is application.
 
It seems she filed right around same time or just after he petitioned for reduced sentence. Coincidence?

NC - you can have a divorce filed,  signed, and granted within 2 weeks. I have friends who just did.  (This is with no contest either rparty and after minimum year seoaration. They did nit even have to apoear before a judge or see each other in the process.)
 
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?
 
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?

I misunderstood the question.  No not with Bro Hyles. 
 
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?

I misunderstood the question.  No not with Bro Hyles.

I figured since JS was nothing compared DH that you wrote letters to Hyles outlining his errors as well. But I guess you gave him a pass.
 
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?

I misunderstood the question.  No not with Bro Hyles.

I figured since JS was nothing compared DH that you wrote letters to Hyles outlining his errors as well. But I guess you gave him a pass.

So that nothing is mistaken here; I said DH had nothing on Schaap.  Meaning that as much as Schaap despised Dave, Schaap was everybit the pervert. 

Thank you for pointing out that I did not have nor arrive with all the answers at salvation.
 
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?

I misunderstood the question.  No not with Bro Hyles.

I figured since JS was nothing compared DH that you wrote letters to Hyles outlining his errors as well. But I guess you gave him a pass.

So that nothing is mistaken here; I said DH had nothing on Schaap.  Meaning that as much as Schaap despised Dave, Schaap was everybit the pervert. 

Thank you for pointing out that I did not have nor arrive with all the answers at salvation.

The observation is that while you chided brainisengaged for doing nothing about JS, you were doing the same nothing about JH.

 
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?

I misunderstood the question.  No not with Bro Hyles.

I figured since JS was nothing compared DH that you wrote letters to Hyles outlining his errors as well. But I guess you gave him a pass.

So that nothing is mistaken here; I said DH had nothing on Schaap.  Meaning that as much as Schaap despised Dave, Schaap was everybit the pervert. 

Thank you for pointing out that I did not have nor arrive with all the answers at salvation.

The observation is that while you chided brainisengaged for doing nothing about JS, you were doing the same nothing about JH.

Wrong.  I stated what I did concerning Schaap but did not blame her for what she did not do about him.  Read it again.  I was dealing with her on how we are to be bereans, how we are to hold onto what is true and filter out that which was not.  I did do that with Bro Hyles.  I also was writing about the service was always for God and never for a person. That also included Bro.  Hyles.  I never  worshipped him.  As far as correction I never told her to correct any one.  That is the second strawman you have set up now on my post by either inference of something I did not say or flat out misquoting me.  I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you just skimmed the posts and are not trying to outright lie on me.  I rather believe you to be forthright and true.  Please use care when "observing" me and I will try to do the same for you.
 
TidesofTruth said:
brainisengaged said:
It's almost as if we are saying, "At First Baptist Church, Hammond, you need to learn to serve God despite the despots in the pulpit",  :-[  and with that being the case that has played out in my life for the past 25 years, it does give megreatpause. The nearly two years since the scandal broke has not yet been enough time for me to reprogram myself from the last 25 years of deception from the pulpit.

There are bumps in the road to recovery. I told Pastor Wilkerson that an important part of my healing process from the events that have happened here at FBC in the last two administrations is honesty. Truth is paramount. I wish for no false veneers, I wish for no spin or manipulation.

He told me people will always disappoint but Jesus never will.

May I respectfully say -- does anyone honestly believe when they tell that to someone that it is revelatory? That is in fact the crux of salvation. His Perfection redeems our hopeless imperfection.

So, once saved, we can expect no better from our selves, our pastors, our peers...because we are not perfect, just forgiven. Seems a little trite...?

This brings to mind an excerpt from "The Divine Conspiracy" by Dallas Willard:

  "The bumper sticker gently imposes its little message: Christians Aren't Perfect, Just Forgiven. A popular song of some years ago said that the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls. When there are no subways, bumper stickers will do.

    JUST forgiven? And is that really all there is to being a Christian? The gift of eternal life comes down to that? Quite a retreat from living an eternal kind of life now!

    Christians certainly aren't perfect. There will always be need for improvement. But there is a lot of room between being perfect and being 'just forgiven' as that is nowadays understood. You could be much more than forgiven and still not be perfect. Perhaps you could even be a person in whom Jesus' eternal kind of life predominates and still have room for growth.

    By now this bit of bumper-sticker theology has leaped out of traffic and onto Christian trinkets. There is a little bookmark adorned with flowers, bows, green sprigs, and fourteen tiny pink hearts, with a tassel at top. In the center is a wide-eyed teddy bear that looks as if it might have inadvertently just done something naughty. The message below is -- as you will now expect -- 'Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven.'

    Well, it certainly needs to be sais that Christians are forgiven. And it needs to be said that forgiveness does not depend on being perfect. But is that really what the slogan communicates?

    Unfortunately, it is not. What the slogan really conveys is that forgiveness alone is what Christianity is all about, what is genuinely essential to it.

    It says that you can have faith in Christ that brings forgiveness, while in every other respect your life is no different from that of others who have no faith in Christ at all. This view so pleasingly presented on bumper stickers and trinkets has deep historical roots. It is by now worked out in many sober tomes of theology, lived out by multitudes of those who sincerely self-identify as Christians."

pps. 35, 36 "The Divine Conspiracy - Rediscovering Our Hidden Life in God" by Dallas Willard

Really good post.  I would submit the sincere meat of the word is not doctrine, It is application.
The Meat IS the Word.
Milk is meat that your Momma digests for you, cuz you aint got no teef.
Once yo teef come in, you can eat it yo seff.
Milk is meat taught to baby Christians, by teachers.
At some point, they should have no more need of being taught...They teef has come in.

Anishinabe

 
prophet said:
TidesofTruth said:
Really good post.  I would submit the sincere meat of the word is not doctrine, It is application.
The Meat IS the Word.
Milk is meat that your Momma digests for you, cuz you aint got no teef.
Once yo teef come in, you can eat it yo seff.
Milk is meat taught to baby Christians, by teachers.
At some point, they should have no more need of being taught...They teef has come in.

Anishinabe

Yea I know some people might of taught this but it does not seem to jive with what Paul said.  I find you to be quite the literalist it seems from reading you here. 

I Corinthians 3:1-3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

So Paul fed the Corinthians Milk and not Meat but by stating such He did not state that He would not feed them meat.  It was only because they were not able to yet bear it that they were not taught yet the meat.  But certainly it seems to indicate that when they were ready he would teach them the meat.  He is not referencing at all that the meat is reserved for them to go get on their own.  While I probably agree with you if you are stating most growth is found apart from the teacher I still believe the Teacher can impart meat to be applied to one's life.  Or do you not preach meat?  I think you might.

FUTHERMORE
Hebrews 5:12-14 6-3  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.  And this will we do, if God permit.


Seems to back the position that Doctrine is milk and the going on to perfection which I believe the Holy Spirit working in us, perfection is found in the doing of the word is meat. 

Anyway that is why I stated such and believe that Doctrine is easy.  Faithful application is hard and that is where we find the meat of the word.  I could get into how meat is protein based and to build the strong muscles of faith we need meat to exercise but that might get to allegorical. 




 
TidesofTruth said:
prophet said:
TidesofTruth said:
Really good post.  I would submit the sincere meat of the word is not doctrine, It is application.
The Meat IS the Word.
Milk is meat that your Momma digests for you, cuz you aint got no teef.
Once yo teef come in, you can eat it yo seff.
Milk is meat taught to baby Christians, by teachers.
At some point, they should have no more need of being taught...They teef has come in.

Anishinabe

Yea I know some people might of taught this but it does not seem to jive with what Paul said.  I find you to be quite the literalist it seems from reading you here. 

I Corinthians 3:1-3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

So Paul fed the Corinthians Milk and not Meat but by stating such He did not state that He would not feed them meat.  It was only because they were not able to yet bear it that they were not taught yet the meat.  But certainly it seems to indicate that when they were ready he would teach them the meat.  He is not referencing at all that the meat is reserved for them to go get on their own.  While I probably agree with you if you are stating most growth is found apart from the teacher I still believe the Teacher can impart meat to be applied to one's life.  Or do you not preach meat?  I think you might.

FUTHERMORE
Hebrews 5:12-14 6-3  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.  And this will we do, if God permit.


Seems to back the position that Doctrine is milk and the going on to perfection which I believe the Holy Spirit working in us, perfection is found in the doing of the word is meat. 

Anyway that is why I stated such and believe that Doctrine is easy.  Faithful application is hard and that is where we find the meat of the word.  I could get into how meat is protein based and to build the strong muscles of faith we need meat to exercise but that might get to allegorical.
You have need that one teach you = babies cant feed themselves.
You have over-thought this one.

Anishinabe

 
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?

I misunderstood the question.  No not with Bro Hyles.

I figured since JS was nothing compared DH that you wrote letters to Hyles outlining his errors as well. But I guess you gave him a pass.

So that nothing is mistaken here; I said DH had nothing on Schaap.  Meaning that as much as Schaap despised Dave, Schaap was everybit the pervert. 

Thank you for pointing out that I did not have nor arrive with all the answers at salvation.

The observation is that while you chided brainisengaged for doing nothing about JS, you were doing the same nothing about JH.

Wrong.  I stated what I did concerning Schaap but did not blame her for what she did not do about him.  Read it again.  I was dealing with her on how we are to be bereans, how we are to hold onto what is true and filter out that which was not.  I did do that with Bro Hyles.  I also was writing about the service was always for God and never for a person. That also included Bro.  Hyles.  I never  worshipped him.  As far as correction I never told her to correct any one.  That is the second strawman you have set up now on my post by either inference of something I did not say or flat out misquoting me.  I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you just skimmed the posts and are not trying to outright lie on me.  I rather believe you to be forthright and true.  Please use care when "observing" me and I will try to do the same for you.

Being a part of the Hyles style of fundamentalism there are many that will point out what they are doing (the implication is what you are not doing) then go on to tell you your responsibility. It comes across as chiding, imho.

My initial questions to you, since you were praying for God to fix or remove him and writing letters about doctrinal issues (this would be Schaap), did you do this with the previous pastor (that would be Hyles). Were you praying for God to fix him or remove him and were you writing letters about doctrinal issues?

Obviously you knew about Dave Hyles and I am sure you wrote letters about his improprieties to his dad. I would guess that you confronted Dave himself as well.

 
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?

I misunderstood the question.  No not with Bro Hyles.

I figured since JS was nothing compared DH that you wrote letters to Hyles outlining his errors as well. But I guess you gave him a pass.

So that nothing is mistaken here; I said DH had nothing on Schaap.  Meaning that as much as Schaap despised Dave, Schaap was everybit the pervert. 

Thank you for pointing out that I did not have nor arrive with all the answers at salvation.

The observation is that while you chided brainisengaged for doing nothing about JS, you were doing the same nothing about JH.

Wrong.  I stated what I did concerning Schaap but did not blame her for what she did not do about him.  Read it again.  I was dealing with her on how we are to be bereans, how we are to hold onto what is true and filter out that which was not.  I did do that with Bro Hyles.  I also was writing about the service was always for God and never for a person. That also included Bro.  Hyles.  I never  worshipped him.  As far as correction I never told her to correct any one.  That is the second strawman you have set up now on my post by either inference of something I did not say or flat out misquoting me.  I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you just skimmed the posts and are not trying to outright lie on me.  I rather believe you to be forthright and true.  Please use care when "observing" me and I will try to do the same for you.

Being a part of the Hyles style of fundamentalism there are many that will point out what they are doing (the implication is what you are not doing) then go on to tell you your responsibility. It comes across as chiding, imho.

My initial questions to you, since you were praying for God to fix or remove him and writing letters about doctrinal issues (this would be Schaap), did you do this with the previous pastor (that would be Hyles). Were you praying for God to fix him or remove him and were you writing letters about doctrinal issues?

Obviously you knew about Dave Hyles and I am sure you wrote letters about his improprieties to his dad. I would guess that you confronted Dave himself as well.

Oh yes at 13 I walked into the temple and the priest were amazed by my knowledge as I taught them the scriptures and then I took  on Jack Hyles about his son head on.

/sarcasm
 
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?

I misunderstood the question.  No not with Bro Hyles.

I figured since JS was nothing compared DH that you wrote letters to Hyles outlining his errors as well. But I guess you gave him a pass.

So that nothing is mistaken here; I said DH had nothing on Schaap.  Meaning that as much as Schaap despised Dave, Schaap was everybit the pervert. 

Thank you for pointing out that I did not have nor arrive with all the answers at salvation.

The observation is that while you chided brainisengaged for doing nothing about JS, you were doing the same nothing about JH.

Wrong.  I stated what I did concerning Schaap but did not blame her for what she did not do about him.  Read it again.  I was dealing with her on how we are to be bereans, how we are to hold onto what is true and filter out that which was not.  I did do that with Bro Hyles.  I also was writing about the service was always for God and never for a person. That also included Bro.  Hyles.  I never  worshipped him.  As far as correction I never told her to correct any one.  That is the second strawman you have set up now on my post by either inference of something I did not say or flat out misquoting me.  I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you just skimmed the posts and are not trying to outright lie on me.  I rather believe you to be forthright and true.  Please use care when "observing" me and I will try to do the same for you.

Being a part of the Hyles style of fundamentalism there are many that will point out what they are doing (the implication is what you are not doing) then go on to tell you your responsibility. It comes across as chiding, imho.

My initial questions to you, since you were praying for God to fix or remove him and writing letters about doctrinal issues (this would be Schaap), did you do this with the previous pastor (that would be Hyles). Were you praying for God to fix him or remove him and were you writing letters about doctrinal issues?

Obviously you knew about Dave Hyles and I am sure you wrote letters about his improprieties to his dad. I would guess that you confronted Dave himself as well.

Oh yes at 13 I walked into the temple and the priest were amazed by my knowledge as I taught them the scriptures and then I took  on Jack Hyles about his son head on.

/sarcasm

So that would be a "no".

How many years were you there with the Jack and Dave show?
 
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?

I misunderstood the question.  No not with Bro Hyles.

I figured since JS was nothing compared DH that you wrote letters to Hyles outlining his errors as well. But I guess you gave him a pass.

So that nothing is mistaken here; I said DH had nothing on Schaap.  Meaning that as much as Schaap despised Dave, Schaap was everybit the pervert. 

Thank you for pointing out that I did not have nor arrive with all the answers at salvation.

The observation is that while you chided brainisengaged for doing nothing about JS, you were doing the same nothing about JH.

Wrong.  I stated what I did concerning Schaap but did not blame her for what she did not do about him.  Read it again.  I was dealing with her on how we are to be bereans, how we are to hold onto what is true and filter out that which was not.  I did do that with Bro Hyles.  I also was writing about the service was always for God and never for a person. That also included Bro.  Hyles.  I never  worshipped him.  As far as correction I never told her to correct any one.  That is the second strawman you have set up now on my post by either inference of something I did not say or flat out misquoting me.  I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you just skimmed the posts and are not trying to outright lie on me.  I rather believe you to be forthright and true.  Please use care when "observing" me and I will try to do the same for you.

Being a part of the Hyles style of fundamentalism there are many that will point out what they are doing (the implication is what you are not doing) then go on to tell you your responsibility. It comes across as chiding, imho.

My initial questions to you, since you were praying for God to fix or remove him and writing letters about doctrinal issues (this would be Schaap), did you do this with the previous pastor (that would be Hyles). Were you praying for God to fix him or remove him and were you writing letters about doctrinal issues?

Obviously you knew about Dave Hyles and I am sure you wrote letters about his improprieties to his dad. I would guess that you confronted Dave himself as well.

Oh yes at 13 I walked into the temple and the priest were amazed by my knowledge as I taught them the scriptures and then I took  on Jack Hyles about his son head on.

/sarcasm

So that would be a "no".

How many years were you there with the Jack and Dave show?

What were you doing at 13?
 
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Mathew Ward said:
TidesofTruth said:
Sherryh said:
Well stated when you preach or teach being faithful and then your husband does wrong..........it has to completely turn your world upside down. I have never experienced this and my heart hopes she recovers......

And we are not talking of just the horrible hurt caused by adultery which is difficult enough to work through and allow God to heal one's heart so that it does not become hardened nearly requiring a divorce.  We are talking some of the worst treachery to a mate in such a blasphemous manner that I have ever heard perpetrated against one's wife.  Just short of murder, quite could be called a murder of the heart.  And furthermore, by all reports and indications from this last little giddyup a complete and utter unrepentant, raping whoremonger to boot.

Jack if you ever read this, Dave has got nothing on you.

And did you do this with the prior Pastor?

"Well you use the word WE like all of us did and that is simply not true.  Obviously some did but WE did no such thing.  Many of WE were praying that God would fix him or remove him.  Many of the WE were writing letters to him and staff outlining doctrinal issues that needed to be addressed.  So I understand being angry at yourself for doing the things you admit However I wouldn't be so quick to use WE when it means YOU."

Yes as did others I know of now.

How did Hyles respond to your letters?

I misunderstood the question.  No not with Bro Hyles.

I figured since JS was nothing compared DH that you wrote letters to Hyles outlining his errors as well. But I guess you gave him a pass.

So that nothing is mistaken here; I said DH had nothing on Schaap.  Meaning that as much as Schaap despised Dave, Schaap was everybit the pervert. 

Thank you for pointing out that I did not have nor arrive with all the answers at salvation.

The observation is that while you chided brainisengaged for doing nothing about JS, you were doing the same nothing about JH.

Wrong.  I stated what I did concerning Schaap but did not blame her for what she did not do about him.  Read it again.  I was dealing with her on how we are to be bereans, how we are to hold onto what is true and filter out that which was not.  I did do that with Bro Hyles.  I also was writing about the service was always for God and never for a person. That also included Bro.  Hyles.  I never  worshipped him.  As far as correction I never told her to correct any one.  That is the second strawman you have set up now on my post by either inference of something I did not say or flat out misquoting me.  I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you just skimmed the posts and are not trying to outright lie on me.  I rather believe you to be forthright and true.  Please use care when "observing" me and I will try to do the same for you.

Being a part of the Hyles style of fundamentalism there are many that will point out what they are doing (the implication is what you are not doing) then go on to tell you your responsibility. It comes across as chiding, imho.

My initial questions to you, since you were praying for God to fix or remove him and writing letters about doctrinal issues (this would be Schaap), did you do this with the previous pastor (that would be Hyles). Were you praying for God to fix him or remove him and were you writing letters about doctrinal issues?

Obviously you knew about Dave Hyles and I am sure you wrote letters about his improprieties to his dad. I would guess that you confronted Dave himself as well.

Oh yes at 13 I walked into the temple and the priest were amazed by my knowledge as I taught them the scriptures and then I took  on Jack Hyles about his son head on.

/sarcasm

So that would be a "no".

How many years were you there with the Jack and Dave show?

What were you doing at 13?
Deflection...

But to answer your question, I was playing sports as an unsaved individual.

So how many years were you under the Jack and Dave show?
 
Back
Top