Church Ed

[IFB X-Files]

"When you start a new church, have at least $20,000 saved for expenses" - David Nelms - 1982

Let's see....$20K in '82 would be like a gazillion today.

$48,395

Yup.  I was right.  A gazillion.

 

[BALAAM]

The story of the little Girl who ran off the atheist by singing "Stand up stand up for Jesus" & the story of the football player who clobbers the atheist & says "God was busy, so he sent me" are classic sermon stories. The locations and time periods change but the stories remain the same.

I seem to recall JS telling the football player story as if it happened locally.
I have heard both stories told in the first person as if the speaker had personal knowledge of the event.
I wondered if these stories were limited to hac graduates so I did an internet search & find dozens of versions of the same stories posted online.

What responsibility does a preacher have to disclose it is only a story he read or heard, not first hand experience?

JS told a story in a sermon at least twice that I heard. It seems that when he was a college student there was another big guy who was also a student that got mad at js. For some reason or other it seems he kicked JS in the backside so hard that it actually lifted him off of the ground. I heard this on two different occasions. Now for the rest of the story. In one of the sermons this guy became a pastor and years later called the college to get some references or placement in some other church. He didn't know at the time that js was in charge of church placement. In one story he said, "Yes, do you remember me? Do you remember what you did? Yeah, I'll help you all right!"  And hung up the phone.

In the other story when the guy called he told him that of course he would always help another brother and that he didn't hold grudges.

I tend to believe the first story a little more. ;D

 

[bgwilkinson]

Lies, lies and more lies.

 

[prophet]

"When you start a new church, have at least $20,000 saved for expenses" - David Nelms - 1982

Let's see....$20K in '82 would be like a gazillion today.

$48,395

The big mac index would put it over 60K.  And I bought a 7 year old sports car for $1000 back then.  Try buying a 7 year old sports car for under 10k now.

Anishinabe

 

[tobytyler]

I would have to agree with Tom, the lessons on church finances & budgeting were most helpful.

I think the lessons on effective song selection for services were very helpful as well.

Mrs Colsten's "Music in the Soulwinning Church" was more helpful to me than many semesters of Church Ed.  She used her teachings in everyday FBC staff life, whereas Young and Schaap would try to teach "How to Baptize" when neither baptized at FBC during those years. 

I remember that Colsten and Moffitt were to be out of town and Young and Auclair were to substitute in their absence to baptize on a Sunday.  Bro Colsten got Young in his office and had a "How to Baptize" conversation and Young sort of made light of it as he told our Church Ed class.  I lost much respect for Young that day---even back then, he was too good to learn anything new!  Very arrorgant---and maybe "Very Ignorant" too!

 

[bgwilkinson]

I would have to agree with Tom, the lessons on church finances & budgeting were most helpful.

I think the lessons on effective song selection for services were very helpful as well.

Mrs Colsten's "Music in the Soulwinning Church" was more helpful to me than many semesters of Church Ed.  She used her teachings in everyday FBC staff life, whereas Young and Schaap would try to teach "How to Baptize" when neither baptized at FBC during those years. 

I remember that Colsten and Moffitt were to be out of town and Young and Auclair were to substitute in their absence to baptize on a Sunday.  Bro Colsten got Young in his office and had a "How to Baptize" conversation and Young sort of made light of it as he told our Church Ed class.  I lost much respect for Young that day---even back then, he was too good to learn anything new!  Very arrogant---and maybe "Very Ignorant" too!

Well he has not changed, except he has doubled down on what  you have described as his attitude.

 

[sword]

I don't remember any lessons on dealing with scandal and the media.

That might be a good addition to the course outline.

 

[Bravo]

I don't remember any lessons on dealing with scandal and the media.

That might be a good addition to the course outline.

The lecture could be titled, "Taking the High Road,... when it's the Only Road Left to Take"

 

[IFB X-Files]

Always check your fly before going to the platform.

 

[sword]

I have read the famous book by by Mark H. McCormack
"What They Don't Teach You At Harvard Business School: Notes From A Street-Smart Executive"

Makes me think about all the things they did not teach us in church ed but should have.

For those of you in the ministry full time what do you wish they would have taught you in church ed?

What would you suggest HAC add to the "NEW CHURCH ED"

 

[sword]

Considering all the talk about seating capacity, church attendance, "largest churches in America", satellite churches & the like,  does anyone remember what was taught in church ed.

What was the official method to determine & report church attendance?

How is attendance calculated where you attend?

???

 

[bgwilkinson]

Considering all the talk about seating capacity, church attendance, "largest churches in America", satellite churches & the like,  does anyone remember what was taught in church ed.

What was the official method to determine & report church attendance?

What method do you all use in your churches?  How is attendance calculated where you attend?

???

Nope. Too many decades ago.
My notes got wet during basement flood. Now unreadable.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

Considering all the talk about seating capacity, church attendance, "largest churches in America", satellite churches & the like,  does anyone remember what was taught in church ed.

What was the official method to determine & report church attendance?

What method do you all use in your churches?  How is attendance calculated where you attend?

???

Really don't remember that being addressed!

 

[PappaBear]

For those of you in the ministry full time what do you wish they would have taught you in church ed?

What would you suggest HAC add to the "NEW CHURCH ED"

I would have loved for there to have been a *LOT* more teaching about what Bro. Hyles (and others) did when he had only 19 members, instead of what FBCH was doing with thousands.

Basic principles of integrity.  Would have also like to have seen those principles more closely modeled than assumed by the leadership.

And how to recruit faithful, responsible workers.  Watching some of the messes after an HAC grad pastored a church for awhile, I think a lot more emphasis needed made on training workers, expectations of volunteers, and qualification of who you ask (not just the first person who walks in off the street).

 

[Bruh]

For those of you in the ministry full time what do you wish they would have taught you in church ed?

What would you suggest HAC add to the "NEW CHURCH ED"

I would have loved for there to have been a *LOT* more teaching about what Bro. Hyles (and others) did when he had only 19 members, instead of what FBCH was doing with thousands.

Basic principles of integrity.  Would have also like to have seen those principles more closely modeled than assumed by the leadership.

And how to recruit faithful, responsible workers.  Watching some of the messes after an HAC grad pastored a church for awhile, I think a lot more emphasis needed made on training workers, expectations of volunteers, and qualification of who you ask (not just the first person who walks in off the street).

Are you referring to full time workers? 

 

[PappaBear]

And how to recruit faithful, responsible workers. 

Are you referring to full time workers?

Nope, church workers such as for SS, VBS, etc.  When I was there, we were taught "just ask."  Which is why I mentioned training, expectations, and qualifications.