Christian Attire - The 90% Rule

It seems there are people on this forum that believe a scantily clad woman has nothing to do with tempting a man to lust after her body. Once again, a man is responsible for lusting after women and on the day of judgment, the women who dress in a way to entice men will also be judged just as harshly as the man. If a pastor forbade a church member to sing in the choir scantily clad, does that make him a legalist? You can change with the times as far as apparel but there are lines that can be crossed.
Sure there are lines that can be crossed. But that’s not for you to decide. God didn’t appoint you as his policeman here on earth. We are to dress as laid out in scripture. If something is not found in scripture maybe God left it up to the believer to make those judgments, not you the self appointed judge of women’s dress.

Born again Women are adults seeking to please the Lord.its that simple.
 
Sure there are lines that can be crossed. But that’s not for you to decide. God didn’t appoint you as his policeman here on earth. We are to dress as laid out in scripture. If something is not found in scripture maybe God left it up to the believer to make those judgments, not you the self appointed judge of women’s dress.

Born again Women are adults seeking to please the Lord.its that simple.
Women who dress inappropriately do not seek to please the Lord. I have seen women who profess to be Christians dress in a way that would make a sailor blush. Its alright to speak against requiring men to wear military haircuts or women wearing pants (rightfully so), but some go to the opposite extreme and can't even admit that there is a seductive way women dress that is uncalled for in the church. Its different when lost people dress like lost people but some things should not be tolerated in the church for professing Christians. Once again, is a pastor a legalist for not allowing inappropriate dress for a choir member?
 
Sure there are lines that can be crossed. But that’s not for you to decide. God didn’t appoint you as his policeman here on earth. We are to dress as laid out in scripture. If something is not found in scripture maybe God left it up to the believer to make those judgments, not you the self appointed judge of women’s dress.

Born again Women are adults seeking to please the Lord.its that simple.
the fff has never had a shortage of men ready to blame women for every little evil or idle thought that enters their mind.... ..it;s one of the reasons so few of us ever take part here..... ...
 
the fff has never had a shortage of men ready to blame women for every little evil or idle thought that enters their mind.... ..it;s one of the reasons so few of us ever take part here..... ...
There is also never a shortage of men and women who lay everything on the man. The only shame some people have is accusing others while guilty of the same thing.
 
Women who dress inappropriately do not seek to please the Lord. I have seen women who profess to be Christians dress in a way that would make a sailor blush. Its alright to speak against requiring men to wear military haircuts or women wearing pants (rightfully so), but some go to the opposite extreme and can't even admit that there is a seductive way women dress that is uncalled for in the church. Its different when lost people dress like lost people but some things should not be tolerated in the church for professing Christians. Once again, is a pastor a legalist for not allowing inappropriate dress for a choir member?
and how do you know what other people... much less women... seek to do or not do where God is concerned?....... has God made you a reader of minds as well as a judge of proper attire?... ..and what;s with this obsession over the attire of choir members?... .... does your church not have robes for the choir?..... are people coming straight from the beach to the gallery to pick up hymnals and sing?.......... ........ for your information i sometimes fill in with a special music ensemble at a church my natural sister took me to when i first came here.... ..we have robes that go from head to toe ..and everybody in the group is dressed exactly alike........ but it wouldn;t matter anyway coz few people ever see us unles they twist around and look up (risking whiplash)... to see the small gallery above the sanctuary we are standing in.... ..

There is also never a shortage of men and women who lay everything on the man. The only shame some people have is accusing others while guilty of the same thing.
i have been on the fff almost 20 years... since i was literally teenager like i told someone a few days ago.... and i have seen men blame women... (even cutting us down visciously for no other reason than their own entertainment).... far many more times than i have seen women blame men.... especially not starting a thread just for the purpose of doing it.... and when it;s threads like this one that focus on christian attire it;s almost entirely focused on what women wear... with very few to no comments made on the attire of men.....

but your last comment about how people accuse others of what they are guilty of themselves has me wondering... when was the last time you wore that bikini to sing in the choir?.... and no - your pastor was not being a legalist for making a rule against it... . it;s just common sense and a good practice to have people dress in a way appropriate to the activity or task at hand...... the focus in a music ministry should be on the music not the performers - but that could be a topic for a whole other thread....
 
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Many women don't realize how strong of an influence they have on men trying to win the battle of the mind. I'm now in my 70's but remember as a teenager and a young unmarried man in the military the temptations that could be overwhelming. The lady in this video tells the story of a man who visited her church who had a problem with alcohol and women and started attending her church seeking help. Its very emotional for her but she is speaking her heart. You can mock her and call her a Pharisee while looking down your nose at her but she makes a strong argument about not being a stumblingblock to others.
Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
 
Women who dress inappropriately do not seek to please the Lord. I have seen women who profess to be Christians dress in a way that would make a sailor blush. Its alright to speak against requiring men to wear military haircuts or women wearing pants (rightfully so), but some go to the opposite extreme and can't even admit that there is a seductive way women dress that is uncalled for in the church. Its different when lost people dress like lost people but some things should not be tolerated in the church for professing Christians. Once again, is a pastor a legalist for not allowing inappropriate dress for a choir member?
There’s nothing wrong with a pastor requiring women to dress according to scripture. If doesn’t have a chapter and verse he needs not put requirements on Gods people that God doesn't require.

What church have you gone to where women dress seductive in the choir?? Honest question.
 
and how do you know what other people... much less women... seek to do or not do where God is concerned?....... has God made you a reader of minds as well as a judge of proper attire?... ..and what;s with this obsession over the attire of choir members?... .... does your church not have robes for the choir?..... are people coming straight from the beach to the gallery to pick up hymnals and sing?.......... ........ for your information i sometimes fill in with a special music ensemble at a church my natural sister took me to when i first came here.... ..we have robes that go from head to toe ..and everybody in the group is dressed exactly alike........ but it wouldn;t matter anyway coz few people ever see us unles they twist around and look up (risking whiplash)... to see the small gallery above the sanctuary we are standing in.... ..


i have been on the fff almost 20 years... since i was literally teenager like i told someone a few days ago.... and i have seen men blame women... (even cutting us down visciously for no other reason than their own entertainment).... far many more times than i have seen women blame men.... especially not starting a thread just for the purpose of doing it.... and when it;s threads like this one that focus on christian attire it;s almost entirely focused on what women wear... with very few to no comments made on the attire of men.....

but your last comment about how people accuse others of what they are guilty of themselves has me wondering... when was the last time you wore that bikini to sing in the choir?.... and no - your pastor was not being a legalist for making a rule against it... . it;s just common sense and a good practice to have people dress in a way appropriate to the activity or task at hand...... the focus in a music ministry should be on the music not the performers - but that could be a topic for a whole other thread....
What about a skirt or dress?

What about a tie and jacket of the men.

What about no skirt or dress on the men?
 
the fff has never had a shortage of men ready to blame women for every little evil or idle thought that enters their mind.... ..it;s one of the reasons so few of us ever take part here..... ...
From what I have found it's not limmited to this area.

There is always someone ready to criticize the next guys because he or she has a different view or opinion. It's in the FFF's DNA.
 
What about a skirt or dress?
............
that;s exactly what i wear to church.... and not a miniskirt...opened back... or split down the side dress either.... ..it;s not for anyone else - just for me....it helps me maintain a proper attitude and demeanor in church... .. not everybody does that or sees things that way but i;m not responsible for what they wear to church.... and as far i know they also don;t criticize me for it either.. ....unless they are talking about me behind my back...... if that;s the case i;ll start bringing cheaper donuts to sunday school when it;s my turn to bring them... ... but i won;t change to a raggamuffin grunge look just to make them happy... ....

(i don;t wear heels either... but not for religious reasons.. i just can;t balance in them... and always feel like i am about to dislocate an ankle.... but i wish i could wear them coz it would make me look a little taller)

What about a tie and jacket of the men.
some men wear jackets and ties... .even full suits.... mostly older men... . but a really nice dress wear and office wear style of aloha shirt ..worn with dress slack or clean non-faded jeans is considered appropriate too.... .. but if someone can;t afford to dress like that they are welcome to come however they are and will never be criticized for it.....

by the way...it was on the fff that i first heard people say dressing up for church was wrong... .... so it;s like you said.. ..there is nothing they won;t criticize or find fault with....


What about no skirt or dress on the men?
well.... that;s where you might run into problems in hawaii... ..not over men dressing like women or in a womans skirt.. . but we have a lot of samoan families in our church and for samoan men - the sarong... which is the equivalent of a kilt.. is considered high end dress wear.... .. during the scottish festival week i have even seen men of scottish ancestry come to church wearing the traditional tartain kilt to represent the clan of their heritage along with the regalia that goes along with it......

none of these things are an issue at my church.. or at any church i have been a part of.. .. i have only seen an issue made of them here on the fff... ..
 
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All that I meant is that since the passage is in the genre of wisdom literature, it must be read and applied as such. It’s not a (legalistic) treatise on what articles of clothing constitutes harlotry (neither in a restrictive or permissive way). As such, it can’t be used to legislate and define articles of clothing accordingly.
It doesn't describe the attire of a harlot at all despite the literary genre, and, despite the genre, if that kind of attire didn't exist, or the reader had no idea what would generally characterize that attire, the verse would be meaningless.

But it can be used to counter the arguments against nature that say these things are only in the mind and not universal.

Doth not even nature teach you?

It's like the verse in the same literature that says God hates a proud look with no description of what constitutes a proud look. The position of one's brows, the tilt of the head, the shape of the mouth, etc. But everyone sure knows it when he sees it. And he knows it by nature.

We can drop the pretenses when it comes to the character of one's clothing. Two indisputable and universal things about the 'attire of a harlot': It's designed to catch the eye, and to allure. And everyone knows it when he sees it, and he knows it by nature.
 
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that;s exactly what i wear to church.... and not a miniskirt...opened back... or split down the side dress either.... ..it;s not for anyone else - just for me....it helps me maintain a proper attitude and demeanor in church... .. not everybody does that or sees things that way but i;m not responsible for what they wear to church.... and as far i know they also don;t criticize me for it either.. ....unless they are talking about me behind my back...... if that;s the case i;ll start bringing cheaper donuts to sunday school when it;s my turn to bring them... ... but i won;t change to a raggamuffin grunge look just to make them happy... ....

(i don;t wear heels either... but not for religious reasons.. i just can;t balance in them... and always feel like i am about to dislocate an ankle.... but i wish i could wear them coz it would make me look a little taller)


some men wear jackets and ties... .even full suits.... mostly older men... . but a really nice dress wear and office wear style of aloha shirt ..worn with dress slack or clean non-faded jeans is considered appropriate too.... .. but if someone can;t afford to dress like that they are welcome to come however they are and will never be criticized for it.....

by the way...it was on the fff that i first heard people say dressing up for church was wrong... .... so it;s like you said.. ..there is nothing they won;t criticize or find fault with....


well.... that;s where you might run into problems in hawaii... ..not over men dressing like women or in a womans skirt.. . but we have a lot of samoan families in our church and for samoan men - the sarong... which is the equivalent of a kilt.. is considered high end dress wear.... .. during the scottish festival week i have even seen men of scottish ancestry come to church wearing the traditional tartain kilt to represent the clan of their heritage along with the regalia that goes along with it......

none of these things are an issue at my church.. or at any church i have been a part of.. .. i have only seen an issue made of them here on the fff... ..
i would never call criticize a schotish highlander or any one else of Celtic or Irish heritage for wearing a kilt out of respect of their heritage and possibly fear of my life.

I assume the same would apply to native Hawaiians who practice similar customs.

I think the point of the biblical prohibition is to not dress in a way that is intentionally trying to look like the opposite gender.
 
i would never call criticize a schotish highlander or any one else of Celtic or Irish heritage for wearing a kilt out of respect of their heritage and possibly fear of my life.

I assume the same would apply to native Hawaiians who practice similar customs.

I think the point of the biblical prohibition is to not dress in a way that is intentionally trying to look like the opposite gender.
Those who wear kilts ought to wear something under those kilts especially if it's windy. 😳
 
Those who wear kilts ought to wear something under those kilts especially if it's windy. 😳
but from what i;ve heard - it;s a regulation that they shouldn;t.... :sneaky: .... ....actually, we use to go to the scottish festival every year... .. i have seen some strange and sometimes funny things happen regarding the kilts and those wearing them in the regulatory fashion..... .... i have a few scottish dresses and one kilt with the full set of pipers regalia that goes with it... though i;m not a piper... ...yet.... . maybe someday..... i mostly wear that set up to perform the sword dance.... 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿. ...and yes.. i wear mine regulation too....
 
that;s exactly what i wear to church.... and not a miniskirt...opened back... or split down the side dress either.... ..it;s not for anyone else - just for me....it helps me maintain a proper attitude and demeanor in church... .. not everybody does that or sees things that way but i;m not responsible for what they wear to church.... and as far i know they also don;t criticize me for it either.. ....unless they are talking about me behind my back...... if that;s the case i;ll start bringing cheaper donuts to sunday school when it;s my turn to bring them... ... but i won;t change to a raggamuffin grunge look just to make them happy... ....

(i don;t wear heels either... but not for religious reasons.. i just can;t balance in them... and always feel like i am about to dislocate an ankle.... but i wish i could wear them coz it would make me look a little taller)


some men wear jackets and ties... .even full suits.... mostly older men... . but a really nice dress wear and office wear style of aloha shirt ..worn with dress slack or clean non-faded jeans is considered appropriate too.... .. but if someone can;t afford to dress like that they are welcome to come however they are and will never be criticized for it.....

by the way...it was on the fff that i first heard people say dressing up for church was wrong... .... so it;s like you said.. ..there is nothing they won;t criticize or find fault with....


well.... that;s where you might run into problems in hawaii... ..not over men dressing like women or in a womans skirt.. . but we have a lot of samoan families in our church and for samoan men - the sarong... which is the equivalent of a kilt.. is considered high end dress wear.... .. during the scottish festival week i have even seen men of scottish ancestry come to church wearing the traditional tartain kilt to represent the clan of their heritage along with the regalia that goes along with it......

none of these things are an issue at my church.. or at any church i have been a part of.. .. i have only seen an issue made of them here on the fff... ..
My cousin Curt wears a Kilt to his Celtic Gatherings. He is a "Strongman" as they call themselves. he can lift a 200lb stone and carry it. He can lift an 80 lb pole and throw it over his head. If he came to my church and wanted to wear that, I'd say, Curtis, go right ahead.
 
My Celtic relatives never wore anything under their Kilts.
 
My cousin Curt wears a Kilt to his Celtic Gatherings. He is a "Strongman" as they call themselves. he can lift a 200lb stone and carry it. He can lift an 80 lb pole and throw it over his head. If he came to my church and wanted to wear that, I'd say, Curtis, go right ahead.
my dad was a true strongman... ..at 65 he;s kind of a broken ex-strongman now....:(... but for 40 years in his carreer he carried people weighing 200 pounds and sometimes 300 pounds up and down flights of stairs and out of other dire situations in rescues.... and i saw him do the caber toss of what looked like a telephone pole with other firefighters at the station once when one of them was practicing for the scottish festival highland games... ..so i know he could have done that in the games too.... .but even though he is of scottish heritage himself and loved attending the festival he never competed in the games himself... ... people tried to convince him to but he just wasn;t interested....

he also never wore a kilt..... not ever... ..(but not to worry coz i always wear a kilt or authentic dress to the festival to make up for it)........i always thought he would be good in the games.... . but after witnessing a very bizarre and embarrassing incident during the caber toss - involving a man wearing a kilt competing in the games, i kinda understand why he didn;t want to either one..... this big scotsman with bright red hair got himself ready to toss the caber - and had it held by the base in both hands with it resting on his shoulder in the traditional style... .. but what he didn;t realize was when he adjusted his grip on the caber he also grabbed a handful of his kilt.... . when his arms went up to throw the caber his kilt went up too... .. and it ended up getting stuck on his shoulders..... ...

an auduble gasp went through the entire crowd when they saw this guy was wearing his kilt "regulation".. not wearing anything under it... everything from his waist down to his knee high socks on clear display....😲 ..and then people started snickering and laughing as he struggled trying to get the kilt back down.... . he finally got it down and in place but his face was as red as his hair..... ..the next year as people were talking about that incident from the year before he raised his kilt up to show he had on a pair of board shorts in preparation for the caber toss.... . that was hilarious.....
 
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