Bizarre Numbers

[Vince Massi]

This collection of bizarre, vague, and undocumented numbers will help explain Jack Hyles´attitude towards Christian education.

I taught Christian school for ten years, and every time we went to a teachers´conference, I noticed the same thing. Over half the teachers were in their first or second year. I saw what I saw, and I questioned other teachers on what they had seen. I´m actually being very generous with this number, but:

Less than half of all Christian school teacher graduates will enter their third year of teaching.

 

[CONSPIRATOR]

Less than half of all Christian school teacher graduates will enter their third year of teaching.

If schools paid a living wage that number would probably increase.  Throw in soulwinning, bus ministry, coaching, etc. and it becomes overwhelming quickly, especially if there are no groceries in the fridge.

 

[BALAAM]

Less than half of all Christian school teacher graduates will enter their third year of teaching.

If schools paid a living wage that number would probably increase.  Throw in soulwinning, bus ministry, coaching, etc. and it becomes overwhelming quickly, especially if there are no groceries in the fridge.

Yes. And in addition to that, when Bro. Hyles was alive he would preach alot on Sunday nights about the teachers and staff members no longer being involved in soul-winning and the bus ministry. He said I would be ashamed to have a college freshman spend more time in the Lord's work than I did.

 

[pastorryanhayden]

I was a Christian school teacher for seven years, it's not for the faint of heart.  God took care of us, but it was pretty tight, especially after my wife quit teaching and started having kids.

 

[Just me]

Been there done that have the t-shirt.  Starvation days are over but the resulting problems are not.

But God is taking care of us.

 

[Fresh Air]

If schools paid a living wage that number would probably increase.  Throw in soulwinning, bus ministry, coaching, etc. and it becomes overwhelming quickly, especially if there are no groceries in the fridge.

^^^this

I was pastoring a tiny church and an area Christian school hired me to teach. It let me be in full time ministry, though split in half, so to speak, and it fit with my pastoring schedule. I loved the job, really did, and I'm still close, 15 years later, with the group of students I taught then. ...but they paid me less than minimum wage, and when I wanted to prepare to get married I had to go get a job that would actually support us. The students were precious. The staff were godly. The chance to influence young people was priceless. Everything about it was great...except it didn't pay enough to live on.

 

[myeyesareopen]

And in the past two administrations at my church, it was stated from the pulpit in no uncertain terms that a man being considered for a staff / teaching position must never inquire about the salary ahead of time. If you asked, you would no longer be under consideration because a real Christian does what he is called to do and thinks not upon the compensation. To ask was considered an impertinent lack of faith.

 

[Just me]

And in the past two administrations at my church, it was stated from the pulpit in no uncertain terms that a man being considered for a staff / teaching position must never inquire about the salary ahead of time. If you asked, you would no longer be under consideration because a real Christian does what he is called to do and thinks not upon the compensation. To ask was considered an impertinent lack of faith.

Absolutely do not ask!! 

And then when you just nod your head and take what is offered to you, your family starves and you go south financially.  Of course there is not even the consideration of going in and laying your cards on the table and asking for a raise.  You, of course can try it, but will be shown the door from that ministry shortly thereafter. 

Watched it happen

 

[bgwilkinson]

And in the past two administrations at my church, it was stated from the pulpit in no uncertain terms that a man being considered for a staff / teaching position must never inquire about the salary ahead of time. If you asked, you would no longer be under consideration because a real Christian does what he is called to do and thinks not upon the compensation. To ask was considered an impertinent lack of faith.

You are totally correct. You'd think God was a pauper and could not pay His bills. Rather than a lack of faith on the part of the employee, it was a complete lack of faith on the part of the pastor who could not or did not believe God could and would provide, for that I am very sorry. The pastors were always depending upon their ability to raise the funds necessary to operate the ministry. Bro. Hyles was always worrying about money behind the scenes.  I don't think we can apologize enough.

 

[Vince Massi]

If schools paid a living wage that number would probably increase.  Throw in soulwinning, bus ministry, coaching, etc. and it becomes overwhelming quickly, especially if there are no groceries in the fridge.

^^^this

I was pastoring a tiny church and an area Christian school hired me to teach. It let me be in full time ministry, though split in half, so to speak, and it fit with my pastoring schedule. I loved the job, really did, and I'm still close, 15 years later, with the group of students I taught then. ...but they paid me less than minimum wage, and when I wanted to prepare to get married I had to go get a job that would actually support us. The students were precious. The staff were godly. The chance to influence young people was priceless. Everything about it was great...except it didn't pay enough to live on.

Likewise, Tom. I LOVED teaching Christian school, and I am still in contact with some of my students.

 

[Fresh Air]

And in the past two administrations at my church, it was stated from the pulpit in no uncertain terms that a man being considered for a staff / teaching position must never inquire about the salary ahead of time. If you asked, you would no longer be under consideration because a real Christian does what he is called to do and thinks not upon the compensation. To ask was considered an impertinent lack of faith.

Will somebody please explain to me how that jibes with the scriptural responsibility for a man to provide for his family, and to do so prudently, planning ahead for what is coming down the road?

...I know, I was taught the same thing. The only problem with it is that it is flat out wrong.

 

[IFB X-Files]

Bro. Godfrey told me that he made $12,000 a year teaching at HAC.  So did his wife.  He said that if he had not been able to preach meetings and sell his material it would have been much more difficult.

Our daughter was on staff at Lancaster Baptist after she graduated from WCBC.  They paid her around $7.00 per hour.  No one can live off that so she had to share apt., etc.  She didn't mind (she's a great girl).  When I found out I called the church and talked to the person in Finance.  I asked him if Paul Chappell lived on $7 an hour.  But that's just the way it is in ministry.  Don't want the job?  There's a line of folks that will take it.

 

[pastorryanhayden]

I loved teaching at a Christian school as well , and the Lord did take care of us. Actually, somehow we managed to pay off some pretty steep credit card debts with just me teaching.  Taught me that God takes care of his servants.
We had a great pastor and administrator who were very business savvy.  We didn't make a lot, but we weren't being robbed either. 

 

[Vince Massi]

Man, I´m surprised to find so many former Christian school teachers on this thread. And here´s why:

I had realized that churches gave little real help to teachers. Teachers´conferences dealt with how to serve better, but problems with lying parents, leaders who would fire a teacher to appease an enraged parent, etc., never came up. So, years ago, I decided to try to help Christian school teachers.

In the early seventies, there was a period in which a new Christian school opened every seven hours. By the year 2000, many of them had shut down. Where were the teachers? Some were still teaching, and some were now pastoring. Where were the rest?

Folks, I have been faithfully attending Christian churches since 1970, and I have never met a former Christian school teacher, except for a few that still had a full-time ministry. I have found a few on various forums, so I´m surprised at how many are on this thread. But the cold truth is that most former Christian school teachers are not attending church.

One reason for the decline of Christian schools is that they became a spiritual death trap for their teachers.

 

[longlivedunkin]

I also am a former Christian school teacher. Taught for 4 years. Wow, so much to say. Let's just say that my perspective of Christian education is much different now than what it was when I was a student... especially in IFB circles. And for the most part, I can only speak for the school for which I taught... trying not to paint with a broad brush there.  I try to be optimistic as opposed to pessimistic when it comes to this topic. If I had to do it all over again, which I don't think I ever will lol, I would approach it from a completely different vantge point. i've enjoyed reading this thread as I can relate to MUCH of it

 

[longlivedunkin]

Less than half of all Christian school teacher graduates will enter their third year of teaching.

If schools paid a living wage that number would probably increase.  Throw in soulwinning, bus ministry, coaching, etc. and it becomes overwhelming quickly, especially if there are no groceries in the fridge.

mhhhmmmm... amen brother, park there awhile.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

If schools paid a living wage that number would probably increase.  Throw in soulwinning, bus ministry, coaching, etc. and it becomes overwhelming quickly, especially if there are no groceries in the fridge.

^^^this

I was pastoring a tiny church and an area Christian school hired me to teach. It let me be in full time ministry, though split in half, so to speak, and it fit with my pastoring schedule. I loved the job, really did, and I'm still close, 15 years later, with the group of students I taught then. ...but they paid me less than minimum wage, and when I wanted to prepare to get married I had to go get a job that would actually support us. The students were precious. The staff were godly. The chance to influence young people was priceless. Everything about it was great...except it didn't pay enough to live on.

A young couple in our church taught at one of the local Christian schools...they barely made 30k together. The problem was that their degrees were from an IFB school and they couldn't get other teaching jobs.

That's why, IMO, the IFB colleges are, in many ways, a detriment to those they serve. But it isn't realized until 'after the fact'.....

 

[longlivedunkin]

If schools paid a living wage that number would probably increase.  Throw in soulwinning, bus ministry, coaching, etc. and it becomes overwhelming quickly, especially if there are no groceries in the fridge.

^^^this

I was pastoring a tiny church and an area Christian school hired me to teach. It let me be in full time ministry, though split in half, so to speak, and it fit with my pastoring schedule. I loved the job, really did, and I'm still close, 15 years later, with the group of students I taught then. ...but they paid me less than minimum wage, and when I wanted to prepare to get married I had to go get a job that would actually support us. The students were precious. The staff were godly. The chance to influence young people was priceless. Everything about it was great...except it didn't pay enough to live on.

A young couple in our church taught at one of the local Christian schools...they barely made 30k together. The problem was that their degrees were from an IFB school and they couldn't get other teaching jobs.

That's why, IMO, the IFB colleges are, in many ways, a detriment to those they serve. But it isn't realized until 'after the fact'.....

Very good point. And very true.

 

[IFB X-Files]

A young couple in our church taught at one of the local Christian schools...they barely made 30k together. The problem was that their degrees were from an IFB school and they couldn't get other teaching jobs.

That's why, IMO, the IFB colleges are, in many ways, a detriment to those they serve. But it isn't realized until 'after the fact'.....

It certainly is "realized" by those in leadership, which almost makes it seem as if it is a conspiracy to continue the seemingly non-ending supply of those who want to teach telling them that "God will provide" when in reality many starve out.  IMO, there is a slight taint of dishonesty.

 

[16KJV11]

If schools paid a living wage that number would probably increase.  Throw in soulwinning, bus ministry, coaching, etc. and it becomes overwhelming quickly, especially if there are no groceries in the fridge.

^^^this

I was pastoring a tiny church and an area Christian school hired me to teach. It let me be in full time ministry, though split in half, so to speak, and it fit with my pastoring schedule. I loved the job, really did, and I'm still close, 15 years later, with the group of students I taught then. ...but they paid me less than minimum wage, and when I wanted to prepare to get married I had to go get a job that would actually support us. The students were precious. The staff were godly. The chance to influence young people was priceless. Everything about it was great...except it didn't pay enough to live on.

I agree. 
Worked as an ACE monitor for 2nd thru 6 grade, about 15 students from 8:30 AM to 3 PM daily, M-F.
I drove the school van school kids p/u and d/o daily.
Was in charge of:
inside church maintenance.
Church janitor
School yearbook director
Choir director
Special music coordinator
Music director for all church services
Adult Sunday School Teacher
Bus Ministry Director
Bus Driver
In charge of all Bus maintenance, 3 buses, 2 vans.
Sound director
Bible Institute director/teacher
All for $1600 a month back in 2002-2003.
I could have been paid $2000 a month had my wife worked for the school/church too, but she was making about $1000 a month working an at home/computer input job.

Of course, we went financially in the hole and I went over the bend at the same time, especially b/c I couldn't seem to get everything exactly right all of the time.
Not happy times.