Beer and Bible Study?

[Tarheel Baptist]

http://www.gty.org/resources/blog/B110809

John MacArthur on the alcohol relevant church culture.
Matthew, Mark, Luke and this Bud's for you......

 

[rsc2a]

Cast a disapproving eye at any of those activities, and you are likely to be swarmed by restless reformers denouncing legalism and wanting to debate whether it

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

rsc2a.....I would say that your assessment of the article is your assessment of the article. 

MacArthur does not believe that alcohol consumption is a sin....he merely points out...correctly.....that the attitude of some in the relevant at all cost church culture is wrong headed.

 

[Izdaari]

My new church is not "young, restless and Reformed" (not even in the Reformed tradition at all), but they do sometimes have an event called Theology Pub, which consists of hanging out at a nice local pub (one with a pleasant atmosphere, good food and a good beer selection) with a small group from the church and discussing theology over beers.

Definitely not Bud for me, as I classify that as unpalatable mass-market swill (and technically not even beer since it contains rice, not an allowed ingredient under the German beer purity law). I'll be having a fine local craft brewed beer. (Why, yes, I am a beer snob.  )

It's an old and respectable church tradition: Martin Luther used to do it all the time, and it's where he got some of his best work done. And not just Luther, but a long line of churchmen before and after him. That it fell out of fashion in America when teetotalers became dominant is one more reason why it was dumb to listen to them.

 

[rsc2a]

rsc2a.....I would say that your assessment of the article is your assessment of the article. 

MacArthur does not believe that alcohol consumption is a sin....

Not in words. And he has stated that church leaders should be teetotalers which is an extra-Biblical position.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

rsc2a.....I would say that your assessment of the article is your assessment of the article. 

MacArthur does not believe that alcohol consumption is a sin....

Not in words. And he has stated that church leaders should be teetotalers which is an extra-Biblical position.

Perhaps you could reference your source.....

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

Ask the question, "Why do people drink alcohol?", and you will understand that the abuse of it is one of the biggest problems that has plagued our society for years.  More people have been killed by drunk drivers than all the wars we have been involved in, yet Christians have the audacity to say it's ok to drink. Why?  What good purpose can come of alcohol consumption for most users? I will never understand the kind of Christianity that some people have in this country.  Never.

For those who favor the consumption of alcohol, I don't think you would if one of your closest loved ones was killed by a drunk driver.  But to each their own, I am not anyone's judge, and I may be prejudiced in my philosophy.

 

[Izdaari]

Ask the question, "Why do people drink alcohol?", and you will understand that the abuse of it is one of the biggest problems that has plagued our society for years.  More people have been killed by drunk drivers than all the wars we have been involved in, yet Christians have the audacity to say it's ok to drink. Why?  What good purpose can come of alcohol consumption for most users? I will never understand the kind of Christianity that some people have in this country.  Never.

For those who favor the consumption of alcohol, I don't think you would of one of your closest loved ones was killed by a drunk driver.  But to each their own, I am not anyone's judge, and I may be prejudiced in my philosophy.

Remember the Jesus who turned water into wine for a wedding celebration? And who was criticized by the Pharisees as "a glutton and a wine-bibber"? 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

My new church is not "young, restless and Reformed" (not even in the Reformed tradition at all), but they do sometimes have an event called Theology Pub, which consists of hanging out at a nice local pub (one with a pleasant atmosphere, good food and a good beer selection) with a small group from the church and discussing theology over beers.

Definitely not Bud for me, as I classify that as unpalatable mass-market swill (and technically not even beer since it contains rice, not an allowed ingredient under the German beer purity law). I'll be having a fine local craft brewed beer. (Why, yes, I am a beer snob.  )

It's an old and respectable church tradition: Martin Luther used to do it all the time, and it's where he got some of his best work done. And not just Luther, but a long line of churchmen before and after him. That it fell out of fashion in America when teetotalers became dominant is one more reason why it was dumb to listen to them.

Luther also believed in constantiation and baptizing infants.....and calling it an old and reputable church tradition is hyperbole to say the least.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Ask the question, "Why do people drink alcohol?", and you will understand that the abuse of it is one of the biggest problems that has plagued our society for years.  More people have been killed by drunk drivers than all the wars we have been involved in, yet Christians have the audacity to say it's ok to drink. Why?  What good purpose can come of alcohol consumption for most users? I will never understand the kind of Christianity that some people have in this country.  Never.

For those who favor the consumption of alcohol, I don't think you would if one of your closest loved ones was killed by a drunk driver.  But to each their own, I am not anyone's judge, and I may be prejudiced in my philosophy.

I don't drink....in fact I've never tasted beer, wine or liquor.
I do not however, believe the Bible condemns drinking , only drunkenness.
My father died a raging alcoholic, which is why I've never indulged.

I believe the uber relevant church culture today is wrong in this and many other areas.

 

[Izdaari]

My new church is not "young, restless and Reformed" (not even in the Reformed tradition at all), but they do sometimes have an event called Theology Pub, which consists of hanging out at a nice local pub (one with a pleasant atmosphere, good food and a good beer selection) with a small group from the church and discussing theology over beers.

Definitely not Bud for me, as I classify that as unpalatable mass-market swill (and technically not even beer since it contains rice, not an allowed ingredient under the German beer purity law). I'll be having a fine local craft brewed beer. (Why, yes, I am a beer snob.  )

It's an old and respectable church tradition: Martin Luther used to do it all the time, and it's where he got some of his best work done. And not just Luther, but a long line of churchmen before and after him. That it fell out of fashion in America when teetotalers became dominant is one more reason why it was dumb to listen to them.

Luther also believed in constantiation and baptizing infants.....and calling it an old and reputable church tradition is hyperbole to say the least.

Consubstantiation you mean? Yeah. I don't agree with all of Luther's theology, though I do believe in Real Presence. I just don't believe in trying to explain it. It's a holy mystery and it's best to leave it at that.

But, back to the point under discussion, I have read Luther's famous sermon on soberness and drunkenness, and I think he gets that just about right, though I discount some of his hyperbole.

If calling Theology Pub "an old and respectable church tradition" is hyperbole, well, hyperbole is an old and respectable FFF tradition. 

But seriously, until the American teetotaler movement came along, teetotalism was pretty much unknown in most church traditions. That's the radical innovation.

 

[wheatpenny]

2 years ago my wife and I were at a Halloween party in a local Episcopalian church that included beer and wine.

 

[Izdaari]

2 years ago my wife and I were at a Halloween party in a local Episcopalian church that included beer and wine.

The Lutheran and Anglican traditions (Episcopalians are part of the Anglican Communion) have never been against moderate and responsible use of alcohol.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

My new church is not "young, restless and Reformed" (not even in the Reformed tradition at all), but they do sometimes have an event called Theology Pub, which consists of hanging out at a nice local pub (one with a pleasant atmosphere, good food and a good beer selection) with a small group from the church and discussing theology over beers.

Definitely not Bud for me, as I classify that as unpalatable mass-market swill (and technically not even beer since it contains rice, not an allowed ingredient under the German beer purity law). I'll be having a fine local craft brewed beer. (Why, yes, I am a beer snob.  )

It's an old and respectable church tradition: Martin Luther used to do it all the time, and it's where he got some of his best work done. And not just Luther, but a long line of churchmen before and after him. That it fell out of fashion in America when teetotalers became dominant is one more reason why it was dumb to listen to them.

Luther also believed in constantiation and baptizing infants.....and calling it an old and reputable church tradition is hyperbole to say the least.

Consubstantiation you mean? Yeah. I don't agree with all of Luther's theology, though I do believe in Real Presence. I just don't believe in trying to explain it. It's a holy mystery and it's best to leave it at that.

But, back to the point under discussion, I have read Luther's famous sermon on soberness and drunkenness, and I think he gets that just about right, though I discount some of his hyperbole.

If calling Theology Pub "an old and respectable church tradition" is hyperbole, well, hyperbole is an old and respectable FFF tradition. 

But seriously, until the American teetotaler movement came along, teetotalism was pretty much unknown in most church traditions. That's the radical innovation.

The scripture, while not forbidding it's use, is filled with warnings about alcohol.
The early church fathers followed this same path in their writings.
I would respectfully disagree that the Christ followers before prohibition were tavern going revelers.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

2 years ago my wife and I were at a Halloween party in a local Episcopalian church that included beer and wine.

I once attended a funeral conducted by an Episcopal Priest who insisted the deceased was in heaven because his good deeds far exceeded his sinful experiments....

 

[Izdaari]

My new church is not "young, restless and Reformed" (not even in the Reformed tradition at all), but they do sometimes have an event called Theology Pub, which consists of hanging out at a nice local pub (one with a pleasant atmosphere, good food and a good beer selection) with a small group from the church and discussing theology over beers.

Definitely not Bud for me, as I classify that as unpalatable mass-market swill (and technically not even beer since it contains rice, not an allowed ingredient under the German beer purity law). I'll be having a fine local craft brewed beer. (Why, yes, I am a beer snob.  )

It's an old and respectable church tradition: Martin Luther used to do it all the time, and it's where he got some of his best work done. And not just Luther, but a long line of churchmen before and after him. That it fell out of fashion in America when teetotalers became dominant is one more reason why it was dumb to listen to them.

Luther also believed in constantiation and baptizing infants.....and calling it an old and reputable church tradition is hyperbole to say the least.

Consubstantiation you mean? Yeah. I don't agree with all of Luther's theology, though I do believe in Real Presence. I just don't believe in trying to explain it. It's a holy mystery and it's best to leave it at that.

But, back to the point under discussion, I have read Luther's famous sermon on soberness and drunkenness, and I think he gets that just about right, though I discount some of his hyperbole.

If calling Theology Pub "an old and respectable church tradition" is hyperbole, well, hyperbole is an old and respectable FFF tradition. 

But seriously, until the American teetotaler movement came along, teetotalism was pretty much unknown in most church traditions. That's the radical innovation.

The scripture, while not forbidding it's use, is filled with warnings about alcohol.
The early church fathers followed this same path in their writings.
I would respectfully disagree that the Christ followers before prohibition were tavern going revelers.

Scripture does clearly and repeatedly warn against unwise and overindulgent use of alcohol. But it also clearly permits alcohol consumption, and in some cases, in both Old and New Testaments, even recommends it.

The Christian church, in all its many forms over the centuries never endorsed drunken revelry, and quite to the contrary, often preached against it. But forbidding drinking, except as part of fasts or the vows of certain monastic orders, was never the historic Christian norm.

But I don't think Christians meeting at a tavern to discuss theology over beer and food are going for the purpose of revelry. Rather, they're there for fellowship and to talk in a relaxed atmosphere about things of interest to Christians who care about doctrine.

 

[Izdaari]

2 years ago my wife and I were at a Halloween party in a local Episcopalian church that included beer and wine.

I once attended a funeral conducted by an Episcopal Priest who insisted the deceased was in heaven because his good deeds far exceeded his sinful experiments....

LOL! Unfortunately, some Episcopal clergymen are heretics. But that problem is not unique to that church.

 

[rsc2a]

Ask the question, "Why do people drink alcohol?", and you will understand that the abuse of it is one of the biggest problems that has plagued our society for years.  More people have been killed by drunk drivers than all the wars we have been involved in, yet Christians have the audacity to say it's ok to drink.

Not true.

What good purpose can come of alcohol consumption for most users?

Some of us enjoy the taste of various beverages.

I will never understand the kind of Christianity that some people have in this country.  Never.

The kind that don't tack on extra commandments?

For those who favor the consumption of alcohol, I don't think you would if one of your closest loved ones was killed by a drunk driver.  But to each their own, I am not anyone's judge, and I may be prejudiced in my philosophy.

Really? Because my younger brother and his best friend were killed at 16 yrs old after being burned alive in his car after being rear-ended by a drunk driver drag racing with a buddy.

And, I don't have a problem with responsible drinking.

 

[rsc2a]

rsc2a.....I would say that your assessment of the article is your assessment of the article. 

MacArthur does not believe that alcohol consumption is a sin....

Not in words. And he has stated that church leaders should be teetotalers which is an extra-Biblical position.

Perhaps you could reference your source.....

I'll look for it when I get home...I believe it was in his commentary on 1 Timothy though.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

rsc2a.....I would say that your assessment of the article is your assessment of the article. 

MacArthur does not believe that alcohol consumption is a sin....

Not in words. And he has stated that church leaders should be teetotalers which is an extra-Biblical position.

Perhaps you could reference your source.....

I'll look for it when I get home...I believe it was in his commentary on 1 Timothy though.

Thanks....not that I doubt your word, I've always known him to take the stance that drunkenness, not drinking is prohibited.