Are You Ready for the Next World War? (Morphed to Don't Question Zionism)

Ekklesian said:
I hope this Jewish idol you've set up in your heart hasn't beset you from the Gospel. You want to see the holy land? Look at the dirt I and all Christians are made of.
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I apologize if my tone was too harsh. I believe we can disagree without being disagreeable. I get caught up with emotions sometimes. I grew up seeing Jew hatred and it bothers me a great deal.
 
biscuit1953 said:
I apologize if my tone was too harsh. I believe we can disagree without being disagreeable. I get caught up with emotions sometimes. I grew up seeing Jew hatred and it bothers me a great deal.
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As did I. I grew up in a town known as a "Sundown" town. The KKK had a great foothold there, and I had many friends and acquaintances that were in the "Shrouded $#!$." They hated the Jews in our town and blamed them for their lot in life. Sadly one killed a man who had survived the Holocaust and in the 90's burned a cross in the front yard of a black family that had moved to our town after the federal prison had been built there. It bothers me a great deal more now because I have a brother-in-law and nephew who are Jewish.
 
As a teenager visiting my uncle in North Carolina I remember him saying, “I know those Jews are God’s chosen people but I think God bent over backwards for them. Hitler had the right idea, he just didn’t carry it through.” I was in a grocery store one time and a man I didn’t know from Adam came up to me and started some rant about the Jews that made no sense to me but it was obvious how much he hated them.

I was a bag boy in 1968 at a Kroger store and there would be White people meetings across the road in a vacant lot. They put fliers on cars while people were shopping and the message was that the Jews were the ones trying to destroy the White race (just like Hitler preached), the Jews were responsible for this, the Jews were responsible for that. They hated Jews more than they hated Black people because they believed the Jews were to blame for all the problems of the world. This was about the same time the local NAACP leader had his house blown up.

Many Christians are too busy denigrating the Jews to have compassion on them and seeing them as people that need a Savior. Less than 2% of Jews in Israel are Christians because God has blinded their eyes and grafted in the Gentiles during this Church age but it is only temporary according to the apostle Paul (Rom 11). Some time in the future their eyes will be opened and recognize their Messiah but not before they go through a time of great tribulation. That is also Bible prophecy that has not taken place as of now.

Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

“This vision and prophecy graciously reveal the future history of Jerusalem. We may spiritualize it and say Jerusalem signifies the church, but we should not forget the literal meaning of the words. The Jewish people and their royal city will remain the center of the manifestations of divine glory. The nations of the earth will be joined to the Lord, a suburban population to the chosen city. Jerusalem will be rebuilt in more than her former splendor; the Jews will be restored to their own land; and Messiah will reign as a prince of the house of David.” (Charles Spurgeon)
 
voicecrying said:
I don't think I've ever heard a Christian denigrate the Jews.
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Augustine of Hippo argued that the Jews should be left alive and suffering as a perpetual reminder of their murder of Christ.

John Chrysostom held, as most Church Fathers did, that the sins of all Jews were communal and endless;

In his book On the Jews and Their Lies, Martin Luther excoriates them as "venomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate."

Billy Graham "This stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain." Remarks about Jews and their influence to President Nixon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Christianity#External_links

It isn’t hard to look at church history and find how the Jews were treated by many who claimed to be Christian. I was at a revival meeting several years ago where the evangelist described the apostle Paul as “that old bow-legged, crooked-nose Jew.”
 
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biscuit1953 said:
In his book On the Jews and Their Lies, Martin Luther excoriates them as "venomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate."
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And he would be in good company with St. John ... well ... with Christ actually.

...and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. - Revelation 2:9​
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Cross reference Romans 2:28-29​
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I have a copy of that book. I've read it. Do you know what the Jews were saying of Christ, and of Christians, and how they behaved toward them. And not of Christians only, but of all goyim dogs?
 
Ekklesian said:
And he would be in good company with St. John ... well ... with Christ actually.

...and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. - Revelation 2:9​
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Cross reference Romans 2:28-29​
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I have a copy of that book. I've read it. Do you know what the Jews were saying of Christ, and of Christians, and how they behaved toward them. And not of Christians only, but of all goyim dogs?
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Yes, they were acting like lost men but the apostle Paul was willing to go to hell for his own people. The fact that the Jews were responsible for crucifying their own Messiah (Acts 2:22-23) doesn't make them more worthy of hell than you or me. How is denigrating them in very demeaning ways any different than how many have described Black people or how Caitlin Clark has been attacked for being White by some of the Black WNBA players? Lost people will act like lost people and we should see all lost people as in need of a Savior.
 
biscuit1953 said:
Yes, they were acting like lost men but the apostle Paul was willing to go to hell for his own people. The fact that the Jews were responsible for crucifying their own Messiah (Acts 2:22-23) doesn't make them more worthy of hell than you or me. How is denigrating them in very demeaning ways any different than how many have described Black people or how Caitlin Clark has been attacked for being White by some of the Black WNBA players? Lost people will act like lost people and we should see all lost people as in need of a Savior.
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Yes, yes...Christ's indictment, 'twice the child of hell ' was just one way of saying they were just like any other lost person. :rolleyes:

And luther, (and likely the others whose quotes were undoubtedly cherry-picked by your sources), was not 'denigrating' the Jews any more than he was denigrating the Pope or Rome, and neither were they less worthy than Rome of Luther's indictments.
 
Ekklesian said:
Yes, yes...Christ's indictment, 'twice the child of hell ' was just one way of saying they were just like any other lost person. :rolleyes:

And luther, (and likely the others whose quotes were undoubtedly cherry-picked by your sources), was not 'denigrating' the Jews any more than he was denigrating the Pope or Rome, and neither were they less worthy than Rome of Luther's indictments.
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My neighbor is a Church of Christ minister who claims his church has replaced Israel (that in itself doesn't make him an anti-semite) but when the
Holocaust was brought up and we were discussing how Hitler tried to destroy the Jewish race, he replied, "But look at what the Jews did to Germany." My uncle who also claimed to be a Christian said, "Hitler had the right idea, he just didn't carry it through." You are just as deserving of hell as the vilest sinner.

Just as I am, without one plea
But that Thy blood was shed for me
And that Thou bid'st me come to Thee
Oh, Lamb of God, I come, I come
 
Ekklesian said:
Yes, yes...Christ's indictment, 'twice the child of hell ' was just one way of saying they were just like any other lost person.
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You know darn good and well that indictment was directed solely at the legalistic religious leadership who were laying heavy burdens on the people and not lifting a finger to help them then turning around and prohibiting them from finding life in the Savior.
 
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biscuit1953 said:
My neighbor is a Church of Christ minister who claims his church has replaced Israel (that in itself doesn't make him an anti-semite) but when the
Holocaust was brought up and we were discussing how Hitler tried to destroy the Jewish race, he replied, "But look at what the Jews did to Germany." My uncle who also claimed to be a Christian said, "Hitler had the right idea, he just didn't carry it through." You are just as deserving of hell as the vilest sinner.
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Replacement theology, though not inherently anti- semitic, (as you astutely point out) often gives rise to anti-Semitic thought. This CofC pastor is a perfect example of this.

Trying to affix a doctrinal position on folks who identify as CofC is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree. However, a few frequent commonalities arise out of these congregations (again, not every one espouses these) such as baptismal regeneration and a very selective legalism that shuns musical instruments as worldly. It doesn't surprise me that replacement theology rears it's ugly head in the individual you mentioned.

For someone to be so delusional as to think that Hitler had the right idea but bad execution boggles my mind especially when they, out of the same mouth, profess to follow Christ. To try to blame the Jews for Germany's problems in the early 20th century is an indication that that one has taken in Nazi propaganda hook line and sinker.
 
abcaines said:
You know darn good and well that indictment was directed solely at the legalistic religious leadership who were laying heavy burdens on the people and not lifting a finger to help them then turning around and prohibiting them from finding life in the Savior.
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In other words, Judaism. And that's of whom Luther spoke as well.

It was the disciple of Judaism that was called twice the child of hell.
 
abcaines said:
Replacement theology, though not inherently anti- semitic, (as you astutely point out) often gives rise to anti-Semitic thought. This CofC pastor is a perfect example of this.

Trying to affix a doctrinal position on folks who identify as CofC is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree. However, a few frequent commonalities arise out of these congregations (again, not every one espouses these) such as baptismal regeneration and a very selective legalism that shuns musical instruments as worldly. It doesn't surprise me that replacement theology rears it's ugly head in the individual you mentioned.

For someone to be so delusional as to think that Hitler had the right idea but bad execution boggles my mind especially when they, out of the same mouth, profess to follow Christ. To try to blame the Jews for Germany's problems in the early 20th century is an indication that that one has taken in Nazi propaganda hook line and sinker.
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for decades teachers in public schools have been teaching the same things about communism - - that it is a great idea which has unfortunately never implemented properly.... ...(i never heard them use the phrase bad execution to explain it;s failures.... they probably knew a lot of us in the class would have argued back and said... "no.... bad executions are the end result of communism... and they execute everybody who disagreed with them... " ...

for us out here in the middle of the pacific the biggest threat is china.... . the middle east - ukraine - that entire part of the world is on the exact opposite of the planet from us.... . noon over there is midnight over here... . but china is much closer.... chinese warships make pacific excursions that circle hawaii all the time... so do russian ships and submarines.. .. they remain outside the u.s. defense zone - which puts them way over the horizon and unable to be seen ..... but they are there... .. the navy watches every move they make but recently biden has been sending more and more u.s. navy ships to the mediteranean..... ...i believe that if the next world war begins it will begin for america right here on these islands.. .. the last one did..... ..
 
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biscuit1953 said:
Augustine of Hippo argued that the Jews should be left alive and suffering as a perpetual reminder of their murder of Christ.
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Not sure we have the same definition of denigrating.
biscuit1953 said:
John Chrysostom held, as most Church Fathers did, that the sins of all Jews were communal and endless;
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Again, not sure we have the same definition of denigrating.
biscuit1953 said:
In his book On the Jews and Their Lies, Martin Luther excoriates them as "venomous beasts, vipers, disgusting scum, canders, devils incarnate."
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This one I'll give you as I don't want to look into the context.
biscuit1953 said:
Billy Graham "This stranglehold has got to be broken or the country's going down the drain." Remarks about Jews and their influence to President Nixon.
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How is this denigrating?
 
biscuit1953 said:
I have a Bible program called e-Sword. Do you disagree with what I posted?
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Yes. Your copied and pasted proof assumes that the millenium is a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth. That assumes a pre-millenial view of eschatology. If I disagree with that, I disagree with your assumptions, and therefore your conclusion. I am not saying I do one way or another, but a lot of good men disagree with premillenialism.
 
voicecrying said:
Not sure we have the same definition of denigrating.

Again, not sure we have the same definition of denigrating.

This one I'll give you as I don't want to look into the context.

How is this denigrating?
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One reason Jews today don’t trust Christians is the history of their persecution by supposedly Christian nations. The history of the “Wandering Jew” for the past 2000 years is heartbreaking. In 1020 A.D. all Jews were banished from England. In that century there was an attempt to murder all Jews who refused to be baptized as part of the Holy Wars and there were also riots with many Jews being murdered.

In the 1300’s all Jews including women and children were stripped of their possessions and forced out of France. A few years later they were allowed to return but the Pastoureaux or bands of shepherds broke into synagogues, destroyed books, and robbed the Jews in Bourges. This was about 100,000 of them. In A.D. 1683 the Jews were ordered out of all French colonies and it wasn’t until A.D.1723 that they were allowed to own any real estate in France.

In Germany when the Black Plague rolled over Europe in A.D. 1348-1350 and up to half of the population died, the Jews escaped much of the consequences because of their hygiene practices found in the Levitical Law. Jews were accused of poisoning the water supply so thousands were murdered in their homes and burnt alive after their possessions were confiscated. In A.D.1560 Jews were banished from Prague and later Constantinople with their property being burned.

In Spain in the 1400’s Jews were dragged through the streets to be burned and tortured during the Inquisition. Ferdinand and Isabella banished all Jews at that time. The Spanish Inquisitor, Torquemada held up a crucifix and cried, “Behold Him Whom Judas Iscariot Sold for 30 Pieces of Silver. Sell Ye Him for a Higher Price and Render an Account of Your Bargain Before God.” They had no place to go so some Jews embarked for Africa and were sold into slavery while others reached Italy.

The history of Jewish persecution could fill a book. No racial group in the past 2000 years has suffered the way the Jews have. The things said by some Christian leaders don’t need a context. It is obvious what Martin Luther said can’t be justified. I believe Billy Graham was caught up with what many Christians believe and that is the perception that the Jews control the banking system and everything that has to do with finances because God has allowed them to prosper in every field they have ever gone into.

https://africame.factsanddetails.com/article/entry-802.html
https://www.jinfo.org/Chess.html
 
Bob Jones VI said:
Yes. Your copied and pasted proof assumes that the millenium is a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth. That assumes a pre-millenial view of eschatology. If I disagree with that, I disagree with your assumptions, and therefore your conclusion. I am not saying I do one way or another, but a lot of good men disagree with premillenialism.
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I don't disagree with you. I believe many things about Calvinism have been distorted just as many things about Dispensationalism have been distorted by some like Peter Ruckman and others. Revelation is progressive and a "dispensation" is a dispensing of divine revelation. God gave Adam instructions for a period of time that was later changed after he sinned and later on changed again with the revelation given Moses. Whether one calls that a "dispensation" or something else is moot. There were also more than two covenants. Some were temporary covenants and others were everlasting covenants. I believe Christians can disagree on these subjects. I see no reason to reject the prophecies concerning the regathering of the Jews to their homeland. Spurgeon was a Reformed Baptist but he also predicted the literal return of the Jews to their homeland which was a miracle. For 2500 years the Jew had no sovereign nation until 1948. I used to have a cheap set of encyclopedias published in the 1930's. I looked up Israel and all it said was that it was an ancient nation mentioned in the Bible. How did Spurgeon and other theologians predict God would once again restore the nation of Israel? Because that is exactly what was prophesied in the Bible.
 
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