All greek to me

[Bob]

Not all try to dazzle...just some.

As far as what Ransom wrote...i don't have a good answer yet.

I'm not trying to work around to anything about which version I use. Not the point of the topic.

Is it reasonable for every one to study greek?

Not knocking elders at all. Were the apostles having to study languages they were not familiar with?

Got to get to work. I look forward to picking back up this evening.

So, "razzle dazzle" has nothing to do with it.  There are always some who are proud.

I don't get what you mean by "Is it reasonable for everyone to study Greek?  Are you bringing that American idea in that  everyone should be at the same level, and that no one should have an advantage because of their God-given abilities. Some people cannot study languages. the language of the Bible is not a magical thing that God inspired a second time in English. He inspired the Apostles' writing. He did not inspire the translators.  That is why we study what they wrote, in the words and language they wrote it in.  It is the same as any ancient document.  To fully understand it, you study it in its original form.  Some of the Apostles probably had to study Hebrew.  Some of them were fishermen and did not go to little boy Hebrew school after the 3rd grade.

By the way, Greek is not that hard.

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

God gave the old testament in Hebrew. I am guessing that greek had become the main language when the new testament came about. So how come God didn't keep on giving the scriptures in Hebrew, and let the greeks start studying it?

Because Hebrew, as a spoken/written language had all but died out during the Babylonian Captivity. The "Hebrew" spoken/written by the Jews in the time of Christ was Aramaic written using Hebrew orthography. Koine Greek had become the "common language" of the known world of that day, thus the "koine" meaning "common." Not the common language of the Jewish people, that was still Aramaic, but rather the language the Jews had in common with the Roman Empire.

Does the whole doctrine of preservation get pitched out the window? God knew that english would be a major language used world wide. But He must have said, "if those guys really want to know what I mean, they'll pick up a copy of the original". Look how much confusion has come out of this. Not to mention the poor people that has been made to doubt God and His word.

English, of course, did not exist in the 1st century AD. Nor is English as "universal" as most Americans seem to think. I have traveled extensively in my life and I can assure you that most of the people in the world do NOT speak English. In fact, numerically, Spanish speakers outnumber English speakers, and just China and India represent more speakers by a significant order of magnitude.

So, God, knowing all of the above, chose the languages of the Old and New Testament to bring to mankind His word and left the learning of those languages up to the men he called and gifted as pastor/teachers.

I am of the opinion that the problem with most English speaking people not understanding the bible is not because they don't understand Hebrew and Greek, but because they don't understand English!

 

[T-Bone]

Quote from Dr Cassidy...

I am of the opinion that the problem with most English speaking people not understanding the bible is not because they don't understand Hebrew and Greek, but because they don't understand English!

I love this statement...and it hits the mark!

 

[Mathew Ward]

If God wanted us to all learn greek, then why have all the translations to bless the whole world?Maybe it's because the ones who have spent a great deal of their time learning the language could feel like they have a leg up on their poor ignorant brethren.

If God is the one who confounded language at the tower of Babel and He is the one who has said go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature then the different languages need a translation of the Word of God.  That same God has also chosen to give us the Word in the original languages and it is beneficial to study them in that light.

 

[Bro Blue]

I don't believe in double inspiration.

After the canon was closed with the scriptures being given in hebrew, aramaic, and greek....were the translators on there own? Being as the word of God is so important, why just leave it to chance that the translators would get it right?

Ransom, to answer your question...I guess one has to start somewhere. The english version that I have is all the scriptures I know. I have not studied the greek so I can start correcting it yet.

 

[wheatpenny]

The english version that I have is all the scriptures I know. I have not studied the greek so I can start correcting it yet.

Most of us don't study Greek so we can "correct" the English version, but so we can understand it better.

 

[Bro Blue]

Am I wrong about there being different greek versions. How do you know which ones to study?

 

[FSSL]

Am I wrong about there being different greek versions. How do you know which ones to study?

Different versions of Greek language? Classical, Modern, Koine... the NT was written in Koine

Different versions of Greek New Testaments? Textus Receptus, United Bible Societies... I doubt you will find anyone teaching the Textus Receptus online... get a United Bible Societies. You will eventually need the United Bible Societies for looking at the variants

 

[brianb]

Being as God knew that there was going to be this super cool language called english, why would He want english speaking people to delve into the greek? I know a lot of people say that it sheds light on various matters, but we do have a complete bible. Why would we need to depart from our native tongue to understand something God has preserved for us in our own language?

Because the English is a translation from Greek.  To get the original meaning it is always best to study the original writing.

disagree. it may not always be best.

Then you misundersand the nature of language.  Anything translated into another language loses the nuance of the original.

Like Hebrew into Greek
For example: the Tetragrammaton which is YHWH in English letters is translated kurios in the Greek which is Lord in English - See Matthew 22:44. We wouldn't know what Psalm 110:1 originally said if it wasn't for the Hebrew. We need both Greek and Hebrew.

 

[FSSL]

We need both Greek and Hebrew.

Right on! Especially since the majority of Scripture is in Hebrew.

 

[Bob]

We need both Greek and Hebrew.

Right on! Especially since the majority of Scripture is in Hebrew.

Yeah, but why did he have to make all of the verbs have  only 3 letters.

yiktol
tiktol
tiktol
tiktoli

 

[Bro Blue]

Unless we become language scholars ourselves we just to hope that our translation was done right? Hope for the best with whatever translation we happen to use? Hope that our pastors do their homework right? And hope that we are not swallowing hook, line, and sinker?

 

[Bob]

Unless we become language scholars ourselves we just to hope that our translation was done right? Hope for the best with whatever translation we happen to use? Hope that our pastors do their homework right? And hope that we are not swallowing hook, line, and sinker?

It sounds like you are leaning toward implying that you think God must have preserved the Bible in English, and that your questions push anyone to that view who tries to show you that studying Greek is good.

I disagee with your line of questioning.  I say trust people who have done their studies, yes.  Not hope for the best, but trust that it was done fauithfully. And if your pastor does not do his homework, he will stand accountable. There are lazy pastors.

If you don't want to be hoodwinked, and you really think your pastor is trying to lie to you, study Greek for yourself.  Don't imply that the only way to have a reliable translation is for God to intervene in 1611 and have the Anglicans produce a perfect translation.

 

[Bro Blue]

The nature of my questioning is not meant to offend. I knew going into this thread that there were a lot of smart people that has more information than me. To get as much input about the subject as possible. I have no fight to pick. Just at a time in my life where a lot of examining is going on. In the past five years I've been fed a lot of information...high time to start checking it out.
You guys have given me plenty of stuff to think about, and I appreciate it. I don't want it to take an ugly turn for the worst. You guys be patient with me as I bumble through this stuff. There may be a thread that comes that I will have plenty to offer on.

 

[Ransom]

Bro Blue said:

After the canon was closed with the scriptures being given in hebrew, aramaic, and greek....were the translators on there own?

What do you man by "on their own"?  Were they inspired by the Holy Spirit in the same way as the original biblical authors were? No. But, like everyone else, they were guided by the hand of providence.  And, humanly speaking, they weren't "alone."  They had their own knowledge of the original languages, other translators to consult, other translations in different languages (or earlier ones in their own), the creeds and confessions of the church.

But they weren't"alone." The Bible is the most studied piece of literature in the history of mankind.

Being as the word of God is so important, why just leave it to chance that the translators would get it right?

Who said anything about "chance"?  Learning doesn't happen by "chance."  Knowledge is passed down from generation to generation.  When Jerome translated the Bible into Latin, for example, he learned Hebrew from Jewish converts to Christianity, and later actually lived in Bethlehem and studied it under rabbis.  People who actually knew the language firsthand.

Again, translation doesn't happen by chance, as if knowledge of other languages just appears out of the blue with no continuity from previous generations.

Ransom, to answer your question...I guess one has to start somewhere.

Sure, you have to start somewhere. But you sound like you want to sit there at the starting line and go no further.

 

[FSSL]

We need both Greek and Hebrew.

Right on! Especially since the majority of Scripture is in Hebrew.

Yeah, but why did he have to make all of the verbs have  only 3 letters.

yiktol
tiktol
tiktol
tiktoli

IDK

 

[OZZY]

Being as God knew that there was going to be this super cool language called english, why would He want english speaking people to delve into the greek? I know a lot of people say that it sheds light on various matters, but we do have a complete bible. Why would we need to depart from our native tongue to understand something God has preserved for us in our own language?

One needs the Greek if they don't believe that God can preserve His inspired Word for this generation. I believe He can and Did. so I'll stick with English.

 

[Bro Blue]

If I'm reading into what they're saying correctly, they're saying God preserved His word in the Hebrew and Greek but this is not applicable to translations. Haven't never thought of it that way, but I'm not sold on it.

 

[wheatpenny]

Being as God knew that there was going to be this super cool language called english, why would He want english speaking people to delve into the greek? I know a lot of people say that it sheds light on various matters, but we do have a complete bible. Why would we need to depart from our native tongue to understand something God has preserved for us in our own language?

One needs the Greek if they don't believe that God can preserve His inspired Word for this generation. I believe He can and Did. so I'll stick with English.

God preserved His word in English, but he also preserved it in the languages in which it was originally written.  Why did God give us the Greek and Hebrew if we're not supposed to use them?

 

[Bro Blue]

Why would you say "give us"? God have the scriptures to who He was addressing them to in the language "they" were using. He gave us the scriptures through translations. Would that be a fair statement guys?