A New Site For Reform In Fundamentalism

Your points are precisely why I left the IFB movement. Too much extra Biblical laws, man centered preaching with nobody holding him accountable and now, afraid of technology.
BTW, if you want to get away from man centered worship, drop pastor from your title around your own people. They will always put you up on a pedestal if you make them call you pastor.
 
Thanks for sharing your site. Welcome to the forum!!
 
Three very good points.  I like that you are not intending to attack people but errant principle.  What help are you looking for?
 
Recovering IFB said:
BTW, if you want to get away from man centered worship, drop pastor from your title around your own people. They will always put you up on a pedestal if you make them call you pastor.
Click to expand...

I prefer to be called pastor/preacher/ b/c that is what I am.
I, however, do not demand it from the people.
Before I was a pastor, that is what I called my pastor and there was no man-worship involved, just a respect for the office that God had called him unto.

I, however, refuse to allow people to call me 'reverend', b/c that I am not.
 
Recovering IFB said:
Your points are precisely why I left the IFB movement. Too much extra Biblical laws, man centered preaching with nobody holding him accountable and now, afraid of technology.
Click to expand...

^this
 
16KJV11 said:
Recovering IFB said:
BTW, if you want to get away from man centered worship, drop pastor from your title around your own people. They will always put you up on a pedestal if you make them call you pastor.
Click to expand...

I prefer to be called pastor/preacher/ b/c that is what I am.
I, however, do not demand it from the people.
Before I was a pastor, that is what I called my pastor and there was no man-worship involved, just a respect for the office that God had called him unto.

I, however, refuse to allow people to call me 'reverend', b/c that I am not.
Click to expand...

The very same reasoning and logic that puts you at the center of all... Let me ask you, how many other elders are at your assembly?
 
There is nothing wrong in following a true man of God. If you don't have a relationship with your pastor i think that is a bit sad. People abuse their power in all walks of life, not just in the church. That is why it so important that your pastor align with the standards set in scripture.
 
cave_dweller said:
There is nothing wrong in following a true man of God. If you don't have a relationship with your pastor i think that is a bit sad. People abuse their power in all walks of life, not just in the church. That is why it so important that your pastor align with the standards set in scripture.
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But your pastor us a sinner just like you. You should pray and support your church leadership(assuming they are doing thing right, of course).  There is nowhere in scripture that gives us the pastor/deacon model for leadership.
Here is an interesting link to review
http://www.allbygrace.com/biblicaleldership.html
 
Here is a summation of my understanding of church polity:
1) There is no clearly laid out model for polity in the scripture. Anyone who insists otherwise is being intellectually dishonest.
2) The Bible does seem to indicate a plurality of leadership. 
3) The term "bishop" denotes authority, and there is no mention of "bishops" in a church.
4) There is no reason to not believe that bishop, elder and pastor refer to the same office (although I would not be dogmatic about it.)
Based on this, in our church (around 80 attenders) I am a pastor with authority, but I share that authority with our deacons.  No major decisions are made without the full consent of the deacon board.  Essentially, as far as the leadership of the church is concerned, I treat them like elders.  (But they are not expected to teach.)
I would not be dogmatic with anybody about church polity, because I just don't think the scripture is very clear on it.  I do think that common sense wisdom and several clear references seem to indicate that power in a church should be shared and that the "Pastor as a dictator" model of church polity does a lot of harm.
 
pastorryanhayden said:
Here is a summation of my understanding of church polity:
1) There is no clearly laid out model for polity in the scripture. Anyone who insists otherwise is being intellectually dishonest.
2) The Bible does seem to indicate a plurality of leadership. 
Click to expand...

verses used in the link:
Acts 14: 23  So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 20:17 From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders of the church.

Acts 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you-

1 Tim 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine. 18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

Phil 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

pastorryanhayden said:
  Essentially, as far as the leadership of the church is concerned, I treat them like elders.  (But they are not expected to teach.)
Click to expand...

But this is one of the qualifications 1Tim 3:2 an able teacher also Titus 1:9

pastorryanhayden said:
I would not be dogmatic with anybody about church polity, because I just don't think the scripture is very clear on it. 
Click to expand...

I think it is very clear...

pastorryanhayden said:
I do think that common sense wisdom and several clear references seem to indicate that power in a church should be shared and that the "Pastor as a dictator" model of church polity does a lot of harm.
Click to expand...

So then the alternative would be.....elders!!!

You talk about reformation in the IFB, the turn to elder leadership would be a wise step in the right direction. I have seen it with my own eyes what happens when an "alpha" male goes unchecked in God's house. Demanding to be addressed as Pastor, bullying people who disagree doctrinally. The ever favorite " this is how my pastor did it" routine, I could go on and on...
The fact is a lot of these men are unwilling to change because they love the power and position that goes with being a pastor and are not willing to share power or be accountable to nobody but their own conscience.
 
FWIW I call my pastor "pastor" even though he is fine with being called Jon. I also call our youth pastor "pastor" even though he prefers the youth to call him by his first name. I guess I am being a dictator to those guys!  :D
 
Binaca Chugger said:
Three very good points.  I like that you are not intending to attack people but errant principle.  What help are you looking for?
Click to expand...

I'm looking for pastors to write so this isn't about me.  I'm looking for people who are willing to promote the cause on Facebook/twitter.  I'm looking for a proofreader.
 
one thought:

"Stand against those...."  Won't that wind up just producing much of the same thing that you are against?  What about rather: "Stand for...."
 
I pledge to take a stand against those who would abuse the Bible by preaching it without regard to it’s original context and those who neglect it by preaching only on topics

Just a comment...there might be a very good reason why some folks only practice topical preaching. I would edit that phrase.
 
Recovering IFB said:
pastorryanhayden said:
Here is a summation of my understanding of church polity:
1) There is no clearly laid out model for polity in the scripture. Anyone who insists otherwise is being intellectually dishonest.
2) The Bible does seem to indicate a plurality of leadership. 
Click to expand...

verses used in the link:
Acts 14: 23  So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 20:17 From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders of the church.

Acts 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you-

1 Tim 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine. 18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

Phil 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

pastorryanhayden said:
  Essentially, as far as the leadership of the church is concerned, I treat them like elders.  (But they are not expected to teach.)
Click to expand...

But this is one of the qualifications 1Tim 3:2 an able teacher also Titus 1:9

pastorryanhayden said:
I would not be dogmatic with anybody about church polity, because I just don't think the scripture is very clear on it. 
Click to expand...

I think it is very clear...

pastorryanhayden said:
I do think that common sense wisdom and several clear references seem to indicate that power in a church should be shared and that the "Pastor as a dictator" model of church polity does a lot of harm.
Click to expand...

So then the alternative would be.....elders!!!

You talk about reformation in the IFB, the turn to elder leadership would be a wise step in the right direction. I have seen it with my own eyes what happens when an "alpha" male goes unchecked in God's house. Demanding to be addressed as Pastor, bullying people who disagree doctrinally. The ever favorite " this is how my pastor did it" routine, I could go on and on...
The fact is a lot of these men are unwilling to change because they love the power and position that goes with being a pastor and are not willing to share power or be accountable to nobody but their own conscience.
Click to expand...
typical for a WOS
 
OZZY said:
Recovering IFB said:
pastorryanhayden said:
Here is a summation of my understanding of church polity:
1) There is no clearly laid out model for polity in the scripture. Anyone who insists otherwise is being intellectually dishonest.
2) The Bible does seem to indicate a plurality of leadership. 
Click to expand...

verses used in the link:
Acts 14: 23  So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 20:17 From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders of the church.

Acts 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you-

1 Tim 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine. 18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

Phil 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

pastorryanhayden said:
  Essentially, as far as the leadership of the church is concerned, I treat them like elders.  (But they are not expected to teach.)
Click to expand...

But this is one of the qualifications 1Tim 3:2 an able teacher also Titus 1:9

pastorryanhayden said:
I would not be dogmatic with anybody about church polity, because I just don't think the scripture is very clear on it. 
Click to expand...

I think it is very clear...

pastorryanhayden said:
I do think that common sense wisdom and several clear references seem to indicate that power in a church should be shared and that the "Pastor as a dictator" model of church polity does a lot of harm.
Click to expand...

So then the alternative would be.....elders!!!

You talk about reformation in the IFB, the turn to elder leadership would be a wise step in the right direction. I have seen it with my own eyes what happens when an "alpha" male goes unchecked in God's house. Demanding to be addressed as Pastor, bullying people who disagree doctrinally. The ever favorite " this is how my pastor did it" routine, I could go on and on...
The fact is a lot of these men are unwilling to change because they love the power and position that goes with being a pastor and are not willing to share power or be accountable to nobody but their own conscience.
Click to expand...
typical for a WOS
Click to expand...

What's a WOS
 
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