G
graceandtruth
Guest
I am sure that all 5 of your points would apply equally to Republicans as well. Sinners are prone to sin and manipulate other to get what they want and Republican candidates and voters are not beyond that.
Let me illustrate. Many "Christians" in the first election President Obama ran in claimed they were not voting for him because he was not Christian but Muslim. I was in agreement with them if he were indeed Muslim. In the second election President Obama ran in the same "Christians" had no qualms with supporting a Mormon candidate. I was confused by them. Clearly religious affiliation was not the real reason they opposed President Obama in the first election and he had not yet made any policy decisions. Hmmmmmmmm............
Now in an effort to be consistent I did not vote for President Obama in either election nor did I vote for the Mormon candidate. I know, I know we are not electing a pastor but I am comfortable with accepting that Caesar is ordained of God but I am not comfortable with casting my vote for Nero.
It is interesting to see the same assumptions about Democrats and Republicans playing out among Christians who should be more well informed and not duped by the efforts to manipulate carried out by both parties.
Let me illustrate. Many "Christians" in the first election President Obama ran in claimed they were not voting for him because he was not Christian but Muslim. I was in agreement with them if he were indeed Muslim. In the second election President Obama ran in the same "Christians" had no qualms with supporting a Mormon candidate. I was confused by them. Clearly religious affiliation was not the real reason they opposed President Obama in the first election and he had not yet made any policy decisions. Hmmmmmmmm............
Now in an effort to be consistent I did not vote for President Obama in either election nor did I vote for the Mormon candidate. I know, I know we are not electing a pastor but I am comfortable with accepting that Caesar is ordained of God but I am not comfortable with casting my vote for Nero.
It is interesting to see the same assumptions about Democrats and Republicans playing out among Christians who should be more well informed and not duped by the efforts to manipulate carried out by both parties.
C
christundivided
Guest
graceandtruth said:
I don't think you even read the 5 points. They can't be equally applied. Play close attention to point #3.
MORON. HE TOLD EVERYONE WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO. YOU DO THAT IN AN ELECTION....
He didn't have to "officially" make policy decisions. He had a "platform" to run on. I REJECTED THE PLATFORM HE RAN ON.... when I voted against him the FIRST TIME. Most everyone else did as well. You stinking "Race Baiter."
Maddog?
Muslims and Mormons can't even begin to be compared. Muslims reject the very divine nature of Christ. At least a Mormon will argue with you about what that divine nature means. Many Muslims will have you killed over it. Get it?
I assume that you'll never again cast a vote for anyone? Who would you consider not to be a Nero? Who HAVE you voted for in the past?
I didn't vote "for a pastor". I voted for a rich man that knows how to be successful. A man with a little more "character" than the moron in office at the time.
I wouldn't trust most democrats, (which obviously you are), to run power tools... much less a country.
Do you even want to talk about the official party platforms and how they differ? OFFICIALLY supporting Abortion..... must not mean much to you.
G
graceandtruth
Guest
Wrong again CU. I am a registered Republican and vote for the Republican candidate most times.
You said there is a difference between the false christ of the Muslim and the false christ or Mormon. Really........ LOL
Most of the Republican voters are much like the Democratic voters and simply voting the party line. They are no more informed except by the media outlets that tow their party line. So number 3 applies.
I am opposed to abortion just as I am opposed to homosexual marriage, giving the poor enough money to remain poor instead of opportunities to rise above poverty, gun control that demonizes weapons instead of exposing the sinfulness of the hearts of people as the violence problem, etc. I am also aware that as it pertains to abortion the majority of the presidents since R v. W have been Republicans and the industry still thrives. Confusing if their platform is different unless they are simply leading their highly informed constitutes to believe their platform is something it really is not.
All of your assumptions about me thus far have been wrong:
1. I am not a Democrat
2. I do not support abortion
3. My name is not moron but Wesley
4. My name is not stinking race baiter either but Wesley
Try sticking with what I say instead of what you think I have said.
I am African-American and I have not voted for President Obama in either election and I do not agree with him on any of his policies but I will treat him with the same respect that I have treated the previous presidents that I did not agree with. I know for my state Louisiana which has voted straight Democrat for the majority of the Presidential elections that the only viable factor for the switch to Republican in this instance cannot be platforms.
You are wrong about something else as well. You cannot, as much as I would like to, get me to stoop to ad hominem attacks. I instead choose to speak to all, even those I disagree with, graciously and to edify not insult.
Grace and Peace my friend CU.
You said there is a difference between the false christ of the Muslim and the false christ or Mormon. Really........ LOL
Most of the Republican voters are much like the Democratic voters and simply voting the party line. They are no more informed except by the media outlets that tow their party line. So number 3 applies.
I am opposed to abortion just as I am opposed to homosexual marriage, giving the poor enough money to remain poor instead of opportunities to rise above poverty, gun control that demonizes weapons instead of exposing the sinfulness of the hearts of people as the violence problem, etc. I am also aware that as it pertains to abortion the majority of the presidents since R v. W have been Republicans and the industry still thrives. Confusing if their platform is different unless they are simply leading their highly informed constitutes to believe their platform is something it really is not.
All of your assumptions about me thus far have been wrong:
1. I am not a Democrat
2. I do not support abortion
3. My name is not moron but Wesley
4. My name is not stinking race baiter either but Wesley
Try sticking with what I say instead of what you think I have said.
I am African-American and I have not voted for President Obama in either election and I do not agree with him on any of his policies but I will treat him with the same respect that I have treated the previous presidents that I did not agree with. I know for my state Louisiana which has voted straight Democrat for the majority of the Presidential elections that the only viable factor for the switch to Republican in this instance cannot be platforms.
You are wrong about something else as well. You cannot, as much as I would like to, get me to stoop to ad hominem attacks. I instead choose to speak to all, even those I disagree with, graciously and to edify not insult.
Grace and Peace my friend CU.
C
christundivided
Guest
graceandtruth said:
Okay. I apologize for "assuming". I can be wrong. I admit it.
Sorry for calling you a moron. I shouldn't have.
Can you see where I might have thought you were "race baiting". Could you alleviate my suspicions?
To what are you referring when you said...
Clearly religious affiliation was not the real reason they opposed President Obama in the first election and he had not yet made any policy decisions. Hmmmmmmmm............
Not this one. I vote the man and not the party. I've voted straight ticket one time in my life and it was because I just happened to like all the candidates that ran that year. There a few local Republican candidates in my area that I refuse to vote for..... I know them and I hate what they stand against.
Being against abortion is not necessarily wanting a law against it. Even so, there has been very little opportunity to do anything about an amendment that would stop it.
I happen to believe there is a possibility that a practicing Mormon could be saved and just uninformed or even knowingly wrong.
I have no hope for any practicing Muslim to be saved. None. If you can't tell the difference...... then you need to look again.
What President have you voted for in the past? Reagan? Bush the Elder or the son? McCain?
G
graceandtruth
Guest
christundivided said:graceandtruth said:
Okay. I apologize for "assuming". I can be wrong. I admit it.
Sorry for calling you a moron. I shouldn't have.
Can you see where I might have thought you were "race baiting". Could you alleviate my suspicions?
To what are you referring when you said...
Clearly religious affiliation was not the real reason they opposed President Obama in the first election and he had not yet made any policy decisions. Hmmmmmmmm............
Not this one. I vote the man and not the party. I've voted straight ticket one time in my life and it was because I just happened to like all the candidates that ran that year. There a few local Republican candidates in my area that I refuse to vote for..... I know them and I hate what they stand against.
Being against abortion is not necessarily wanting a law against it. Even so, there has been very little opportunity to do anything about an amendment that would stop it.
I happen to believe there is a possibility that a practicing Mormon could be saved and just uninformed or even knowingly wrong.
I have no hope for any practicing Muslim to be saved. None. If you can't tell the difference...... then you need to look again.
What President have you voted for in the past? Reagan? Bush the Elder or the son? McCain?
Religious affiliation did not drive the vote in Southern states like Louisiana where I live. I firmly believe that it was the ethnic group of the presidential candidate that caused the switch to Republican instead of Democrat when many have voted for Democrats for 30+ previous presidential elections. I understand southern dynamics and do not have any angst when sinners do such things. We all must deal with prejudices on some level whether it is knowingly or unknowingly like my SEC football is better than your conference, my state is better than your state, my gumbo is better than your ..... well your everything...
None of us are immune so we must all guard against it whether we are saint or sinner, African-American or European-American or Native American or any-other-American. Mormon doctrine is as works based as Muslim doctrine. Mormons elevate the Book of Mormons over the Scriptures and Muslim elevate the Koran over the Scriptures. I see nothing in Mormonism that would make salvation by grace through faith any more possible than in Islam. I also have a friend who is a preacher and was raised as a Mormon. He has given me references in the Book of Mormons that reference salvation through Christ but readily admits that during his entire youth and young adulthood as a Mormon these passages were never referenced by any in the LDS. He said he only found them after his conversion when he was seeking a way to reach friends and family that were still LDS.
I would like to see abortion outlawed for multiple reasons.
I voted for Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. I did not vote for McCain and I did not vote for Clinton and I did not vote for President Obama. That kind of covers my voting years. I too vote for the individual not the party. I have voted locally for Blanco who was a Democrat as governor :'( and I voted for Governor Jindal who is a Republican.
Thanks for the apology and I gladly accept it CU. Grace and peace.
C
Castor Muscular
Guest
graceandtruth said:
Reading comprehension. You need it.
G
graceandtruth
Guest
Castor Muscular said:
I don't know about reading comprehension. I scored perfect on the last two ACT tests that I took on the reading comprehension section.
Perhaps it is just my desire to be honest and even though I am registered and vote for the Republican candidate 90+ percent of the time I know that these 5 points are equally valid across humanity regardless of political affiliation. I also do not find it necessary to question the intelligence of people that disagree with me. I have been wrong before and I may be wrong again ... after this post
... so I give the courtesy that I would like to receive. I have to admit that your post did make me chuckle. Thanks.
C
christundivided
Guest
graceandtruth said:
I take you're word for what you "believe". However. What you believe is not grounded in fact. First, many many southerners embraced Herman Cain. I did. I stopped when he started talking about 999. Which I considered a gimmick. I would have voted for him if he won the Republican nomination and I believe Condolesa Rice should run for President. She'd make a better President than Hilary Clinton or Sarah Palin ever dreamed of being.
Also, you really need to check your facts again. Here. Let me give you a few.
Yes. Louisiana voted for Clinton in both elections. They even voted for Carter over Ford... BOTH SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS.
HOWEVER, They voted for Reagan in both elections. They voted for Bush the elder. They voted for Bush the younger in both elections. They even voted for Eisenhower in 1956.
SO.... don't let FACTS stand in the way of your opinion....
I applaud you for being one of the rarest, most discriminated against, minority in America. A BLACK REPUBLICAN.
Yet, I can't help but see that you said what you've said, because you're black yourself.
G
graceandtruth
Guest
christundivided said:graceandtruth said:
I take you're word for what you "believe". However. What you believe is not grounded in fact. First, many many southerners embraced Herman Cain. I did. I stopped when he started talking about 999. Which I considered a gimmick. I would have voted for him if he won the Republican nomination and I believe Condolesa Rice should run for President. She'd make a better President than Hilary Clinton or Sarah Palin ever dreamed of being.
Also, you really need to check your facts again. Here. Let me give you a few.
Yes. Louisiana voted for Clinton in both elections. They even voted for Carter over Ford... BOTH SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS.
HOWEVER, They voted for Reagan in both elections. They voted for Bush the elder. They voted for Bush the younger in both elections. They even voted for Eisenhower in 1956.
SO.... don't let FACTS stand in the way of your opinion....
I applaud you for being one of the rarest, most discriminated against, minority in America. A BLACK REPUBLICAN.
Yet, I can't help but see that you said what you've said, because you're black yourself.
Did a google search because I am always willing to learn and I stand corrected.
Louisiana's Electoral College voted for the candidate in the Democratic party 30 times and the candidate in the Republican party 11 times. It is also interesting to note that a Republican candidate was voted for only 3 times prior to the 1970's when there was a major shift in the party platforms. That is not 30+ times.
I am afraid I will say many things because I am African-American that is part of God's fearful and wonderful making of me as much as anything else.
Thanks for the tone.
C
christundivided
Guest
graceandtruth said:christundivided said:graceandtruth said:
I take you're word for what you "believe". However. What you believe is not grounded in fact. First, many many southerners embraced Herman Cain. I did. I stopped when he started talking about 999. Which I considered a gimmick. I would have voted for him if he won the Republican nomination and I believe Condolesa Rice should run for President. She'd make a better President than Hilary Clinton or Sarah Palin ever dreamed of being.
Also, you really need to check your facts again. Here. Let me give you a few.
Yes. Louisiana voted for Clinton in both elections. They even voted for Carter over Ford... BOTH SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS.
HOWEVER, They voted for Reagan in both elections. They voted for Bush the elder. They voted for Bush the younger in both elections. They even voted for Eisenhower in 1956.
SO.... don't let FACTS stand in the way of your opinion....
I applaud you for being one of the rarest, most discriminated against, minority in America. A BLACK REPUBLICAN.
Yet, I can't help but see that you said what you've said, because you're black yourself.
Did a google search because I am always willing to learn and I stand corrected.
Louisiana's Electoral College voted for the candidate in the Democratic party 30 times and the candidate in the Republican party 11 times. It is also interesting to note that a Republican candidate was voted for only 3 times prior to the 1970's when there was a major shift in the party platforms. That is not 30+ times.
I am afraid I will say many things because I am African-American that is part of God's fearful and wonderful making of me as much as anything else.
Thanks for the tone.
I do believe the change in the south has been somewhat related to the civil rights movement under Johnson. Yet, I don't see that as an issue today. Southerners are generally more conservative and democrats have all but abandoned any conservative ideals. This is what I see affecting the switch over since "Carter".
G
graceandtruth
Guest
Thanks CU and Sherryh for the conversation. I think I may really enjoy being a part of this forum because of people like you. I think we learn a great deal more when we listen and dialogue with those we disagree with than when we chew the cud with those we agree with. Often we are missing key elements of the other's perspective or experience that makes their point far more legitimate than we would have ever thought. Thanks for really listening to my perspective and I will strive to do the same with you as well.
C
Castor Muscular
Guest
graceandtruth said:I don't know about reading comprehension. I scored perfect on the last two ACT tests that I took on the reading comprehension section.
You missed the entire point of my post, which explained why Democrats are more likely to lie, cheat, etc. Democrats need to find alternate ways of winning elections because their left-wing/progressive/Marxist ideology is supported by far less than 20% of the public. Republicans may also lie and cheat, but it's not because the ideology is in the minority. This is a center-right country, so, all things being equal, they're automatically in the advantage.
Fortunately for Democrats, they're highly successful at lying, demagoguery, controlling the media, cheating, etc., so they win a lot.
W
weaker-brother
Guest
Castor Muscular said:
Try looking at it this way:
40-some% of people voted this election, and it was within a few percent of even, so really, only 20% of the populace was enough to elect a president of their choosing.
By not voting, you are aligning yourself with the 50+% that did not vote, which made it easier for a candidate to win by cheating--less voters=less fraud needs to happen to affect the election.
Imagine instead that a few percent (extra) voters voted for your preferred candidate--could easily affect the outcome!
I guess I view voting for more conservative candidates who tend to give more freedom to churches and ministries to be my duty to God. Who gets elected is up to God, that I vote (or how I vote) is my responsibility to God.
G
graceandtruth
Guest
Castor Muscular said:graceandtruth said:I don't know about reading comprehension. I scored perfect on the last two ACT tests that I took on the reading comprehension section.
You missed the entire point of my post, which explained why Democrats are more likely to lie, cheat, etc. Democrats need to find alternate ways of winning elections because their left-wing/progressive/Marxist ideology is supported by far less than 20% of the public. Republicans may also lie and cheat, but it's not because the ideology is in the minority. This is a center-right country, so, all things being equal, they're automatically in the advantage.
Fortunately for Democrats, they're highly successful at lying, demagoguery, controlling the media, cheating, etc., so they win a lot.
No problem. I think we are both missing each other's point so thank you for the clarification. Let me clarify my point.
The sinners who make up the majority of the Republican party are no different than the sinners that make up the majority of the Democratic party. Whether their views are conservative or liberal only aligns one with the "Pharisees" and one with the "Sadducees". Like the Sadducees and Pharisees the Democrats and Republicans are both in grievous error and when these errors are removed and their views combined you would have Christianity for the Sadducees and Pharisees and responsible citizenship for the Republicans and Democrats.
Our liberal and conservative views are simply incomplete reflections of God's image. Generosity and Responsibility are both right. Social Justice and Biblical Morality are both right.
Our Republican and Democratic parties are both dominated by sinners who act sinfully. To deny this is to deny the reality of our national politics and people's hearts. Both are guilty of manipulating the public through media be it Fox or MNBC. Both are guilty of making poor policy choices like open borders for Bush and giving drones to potential enemies like President Obama. Both spend recklessly on different projects that benefit different groups who they believe will support them. Both lie to us during the campaigns and then do what benefits them once they get in office.
For these reasons I do not choose to elevate either party at the expense of the other party. I do not choose to make sweeping statements about members of either party or how either party's candidates are elected. I know that both parties are dominated by sinful men and women who act sinfully and selfishly while trying to convince the masses that the are altruistic. So I pray for them as a person. I applaud their "right" decisions. I point out their "wrong" decisions without attacking them as people or making assumptions about their intentions.
Finally, I am not concerned with either party "destroying" America. America has historically done far less Christian things than overspend and promote irresponsibility and laziness in one group and greed and selfishness in another group. Ultimately God will determine how long America will last and God is more than able to advance His kingdom in this world with or without America since the Gospel has been preached and believed for over 1800 years before there was an America. I trust that God knows what He is doing with President Obama just as God knew what He was doing with then President Reagan when he was selling fighter jets to Iraq.
God is in control and God has made choice.