Socialism in the church.

illinoisguy said:
Agape Antipas, you have criticized all of us for not raising an "outcry" and a hullabaloo against unnamed IFB churches in California and Kansas that are allegedly promoting socialism and feminism. If you are looking for a forum where the participants are ready to get their undies in a bunch about such carryings on, well, you have come to the right place. But so far you have provided absolutely no documentation to show that this is taking place. We look forward to you providing factual documentation to substantiate your allegations. Inquiring minds want to know. Don't keep us on the edge of our seats, waiting. Document your thesis.
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Personally, I'm finding it hard to take this person seriously.
 
sword said:
As I remember the tenets of socialism are:

Classless Society
State owned industry and infrastructure.
Equal opportunity and rights for all
Government control of all aspects of the economy
Enpowerment of the working class and elimination of poor

Which ones have crept into the church?
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I am taking the liberty of reposting part of Sword's post, for AA's benefit. I'd really like to see his answer to this question. Given the OP, I believe this is the most pertinent question in this thread.
 
sword said:
AA please list 3 ways you think churches have become socialist? Remember for generations the churches were the source of most charity. Remember in the United States before 1933 almost every social program was run by churches or wealthy benefactors, not government.

As I remember the tenets of socialism are:

Classless Society
State owned industry and infrastructure.
Equal opportunity and rights for all
Government control of all aspects of the economy
Enpowerment of the working class and elimination of poor

Which ones have crept into the church.
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While not landing on your points specifically, Churches that are very heavy into "Social Justice" (BLM, Critical Theory, environmentalism, Etc.) are very much preaching and promoting Socialism! It is a relevant issue but the way AA has presented it is quite vague and disconnected! Too bad he doesn't take such criticism to heart and learn to better formulate and define their arguments and objections! It would be quite helpful to him should he actually pursue that Church plant in the Socal.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
While not landing on your points specifically, Churches that are very heavy into "Social Justice" (BLM, Critical Theory, environmentalism, Etc.) are very much preaching and promoting Socialism!
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LOL! Sounds like it's right up the IFBs' alley.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
While not landing on your points specifically, Churches that are very heavy into "Social Justice" (BLM, Critical Theory, environmentalism, Etc.) are very much preaching and promoting Socialism!
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You make a good argument there.
 
That makes more sense. Many of the urban churches have embraced expansion of social programs and government intervention for a long time. Some even advocate for reparations, defunding the police and mass expansion of affirmative action. This is nothing new and not at all surprising. Some of the preachers even embrace the "Black Power" and Revolt for Social Justice movements but they are not IFB.

The OP said "IFB churches in KS and CA" are embracing "socialism and feminism". Please name 3 medium to large IFB churches in CA that are becoming socialist in their beliefs. Tell us what they are doing and how they have changed!!! After Covid the IFB churches I am aware are for less government control. Most feel the CA government overstepped it authority over and over throughout and many stood up to church closings. Some were fined and some even risked jail for meeting.

I'm still very confused what AA is talking about. Is this a head covering issue. Do some of the woman have leadership roles in the church? Do they have committees to handle church administration? Woman ushers? Woman preachers or deacons? Do some of the woman wear sandals or other open toed shoes? Please share with us the scandalous behavior that provoked the OP.
 
I look forward to hearing more about AA's projected church plant in the Los Angeles area. Will Angelenos, especially the ladies, be responsive to preaching on such vitally important current issues as women's head coverings, women working outside the home, women wearing slacks, bobbed hair, Old Paths, etc? I am skeptical as to whether a new church can be planted anywhere based on these types of issues, but if AA can pull it off, I do hope he will keep in touch with us and let us know how things are going. Maybe AA can build up a following by passing out copies of "Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives and Women Preachers." Oops, forget about that - I just checked the Sword of the Lord web site and it's out of print.
 
Listen to the crickets! Still waiting, AA......
 
Ransom said:
I'm reminded to put Don Quixote on my to-read list.
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funny you should mention that.... when this thread first came out i was reminded of that same gentleman of la mancha and pulled out this picture to use in a reply..... but then decided to just ignore the thread as it;s author began to look more like a regular poster using a sockpuppet to play devils advocate ... or someone simply trolling the forum to stir things up...... .... not sure if i am right or wrong about my theory but either way he definitely stirred things up....
.
don-q-and the windmill.jpeg
 
illinoisguy said:
I look forward to hearing more about AA's projected church plant in the Los Angeles area. Will Angelenos, especially the ladies, be responsive to preaching on such vitally important current issues as women's head coverings, women working outside the home, women wearing slacks, bobbed hair, Old Paths, etc? I am skeptical as to whether a new church can be planted anywhere based on these types of issues, but if AA can pull it off, I do hope he will keep in touch with us and let us know how things are going. Maybe AA can build up a following by passing out copies of "Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives and Women Preachers." Oops, forget about that - I just checked the Sword of the Lord web site and it's out of print.
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i spent the first 9 years of my life in east los angeles.... in the heart of the barrio that the busses of baptist churches would not even go into..... i;m interested to know just exactly where a church like antipas suggests would be planted... . but i can tell you i already know the reception it would get if it was done where i lived.. ...
 
aleshanee said:
i spent the first 9 years of my life in east los angeles.... in the heart of the barrio that the busses of baptist churches would not even go into..... i;m interested to know just exactly where a church like antipas suggests would be planted... . but i can tell you i already know the reception it would get if it was done where i lived.. ...
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I was thinking the same thing....I don't believe the "poster"...or should I say "Im-Poster!" ;)
 
aleshanee said:
i spent the first 9 years of my life in east los angeles.... in the heart of the barrio that the busses of baptist churches would not even go into..... i;m interested to know just exactly where a church like antipas suggests would be planted... . but i can tell you i already know the reception it would get if it was done where i lived.. ...
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I think he’s full of hot air. I’ve never even been to LA and I know it won’t happen
 
illinoisguy said:
I look forward to hearing more about AA's projected church plant in the Los Angeles area. Will Angelenos, especially the ladies, be responsive to preaching on such vitally important current issues as women's head coverings, women working outside the home, women wearing slacks, bobbed hair, Old Paths, etc? I am skeptical as to whether a new church can be planted anywhere based on these types of issues, but if AA can pull it off, I do hope he will keep in touch with us and let us know how things are going. Maybe AA can build up a following by passing out copies of "Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives and Women Preachers." Oops, forget about that - I just checked the Sword of the Lord web site and it's out of print.
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I know that Lancaster Baptist Church/West Coast Baptist College has planted a Church in the Los Angeles area and it seems to be a very challenging area (unlike the Church in Ft. Worth in the other thread) just south of downtown. I believe it is predominantly Hispanic and seems that it would be largely lower income unless they are able to break into some of the wealthier Black and Hispanic communities down there. This happened while I was attending. I gladly give credit where credit is due!

Here is their website: Los Angeles Baptist Church

Cannot say anything about the overall culture of the Church though although I do know that Hispanic congregations can tend towards legalism but I pray they are reaching their world for Christ nonetheless. I could not imagine running buses in this day and age as it is usually best to take the "Church" to them and there are many ways to do this. If AA is serious, he should take a serious look at what they are doing.
 
sword said:
That makes more sense. Many of the urban churches have embraced expansion of social programs and government intervention for a long time. Some even advocate for reparations, defunding the police and mass expansion of affirmative action. This is nothing new and not at all surprising. Some of the preachers even embrace the "Black Power" and Revolt for Social Justice movements but they are not IFB.

The OP said "IFB churches in KS and CA" are embracing "socialism and feminism". Please name 3 medium to large IFB churches in CA that are becoming socialist in their beliefs. Tell us what they are doing and how they have changed!!! After Covid the IFB churches I am aware are for less government control. Most feel the CA government overstepped it authority over and over throughout and many stood up to church closings. Some were fined and some even risked jail for meeting.

I'm still very confused what AA is talking about. Is this a head covering issue. Do some of the woman have leadership roles in the church? Do they have committees to handle church administration? Woman ushers? Woman preachers or deacons? Do some of the woman wear sandals or other open toed shoes? Please share with us the scandalous behavior that provoked the OP.
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Good sincere and conversationally productive questions, questions that will most likely go unanswered.
 
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