Why was Dr. Jack Hyles & Dr. Joe Boyd ....

[Tennessean]

voted out of the Dallas Baptist Association, i.e. Southern Baptist Convention?

I would like to think I am a student of Jack Hyles' life. I've heard him preach many sermons and he was my pastor for almost 7 years. I have read many of his books and his biography.

While Jack Hyles was a very successful pastor, author, teacher, educator and professional he had many setbacks. Natural disasters and fire destroyed buildings, betrayal, fights with both the SBC & the ABC, numerous lawsuits, and at the end of his life a coordinated attack from enemies to destroy his ministry. Not to mention that he took doctrinal stands that were unpopular to some people.

Now from listening to him preach you can tell that the greatest professional setback he had was in October of 1957 when the Dallas Baptist Association refused to recognize the Miller Road Baptist Church and the Open Door Baptist Church pastored by Joe Boyd. A high official with the SBC is on record as saying publicly that the greatest mistake they ever made was voting out Jack Hyles and Joe Boyd. Recently I have wondered what caused the DBA to vote to remove fellowship with Jack Hyles and Joe Boyd.

From Dr. Hyles preaching and books, there are 3 schools of thought.

1. Dr. Hyles Association with John Rice, Lee Robertson, and Lester Roloff. Remember the lunch in the cafeteria in Dallas with the big wigs, and he slammed his fist on the table and Shouted, "I'm not for sale."

2. His personal friendship with Lester Roloff.
Early in his Hammond pastorate he preached a series telling his life story. If you listen to the tape on the Garland years, you can leave with the impression that his deep friendship with Lester Roloff was what caused the ouster.

3. In the book compiled by Ray Young, "Dr. Jack Hyles a Lifetime of Letters," personal correspondence seems to suggest that the reason for the ouster was an organization called, "The Texas Premillennial Baptist Fellowship," and a mission board they started, that was outside the umbrella of the Cooperative Program.

In the book it seems that Bro. Hyles was a maverick in the SBC and he didn't go along with their program 100%.

In a sermon shortly before his death, Bro. Hyles mentions that there was someone in the DBA who was the driving force to get him and Dr. Boyd kicked out. He said that years later the same man wrote him and asked him for advice on how to get his church growing and Dr. Hyles sent him a copy of the Book of Acts.

So hacker nation, what do you think?

Also some details that might be interesting.
1. Who was the DBA official responsible for the ouster?

2. Has anyone ever read the sermon, "Are We Still Southern Baptists?" that ran in the SoTL in the Nov. 29, 1957 issue of the SoTL?

Dr. Hyles has now been in Heaven for over 13 years. It is appropriate to study the life and history of this man like we would study the life and history of other men. So please, only serious responses. Usually when a serious question about Jack Hyles' life is raised we usually have to endure 3 to 4 silly comments from the haters. All that does now is give us the image of an idiot with an unwashed beard wearing hideous suspenders.

So this could be a good discussion.

 

[Matthew1323]

So please, only serious responses. Usually when a serious question about Jack Hyles' life is raised we usually have to endure 3 to 4 silly comments from the haters. All that does now is give us the image of an idiot with an unwashed beard wearing hideous suspenders.

I was once told that my suspenders looked cool.

 

[RAIDER]

So please, only serious responses. Usually when a serious question about Jack Hyles' life is raised we usually have to endure 3 to 4 silly comments from the haters. All that does now is give us the image of an idiot with an unwashed beard wearing hideous suspenders.

I was once told that my suspenders looked cool.

Yes, but you are an idiot. 

 

[Matthew1323]

So please, only serious responses. Usually when a serious question about Jack Hyles' life is raised we usually have to endure 3 to 4 silly comments from the haters. All that does now is give us the image of an idiot with an unwashed beard wearing hideous suspenders.

I was once told that my suspenders looked cool.

Yes, but you are an idiot. 

You always have to post the obvious.

 

[RAIDER]

So please, only serious responses. Usually when a serious question about Jack Hyles' life is raised we usually have to endure 3 to 4 silly comments from the haters. All that does now is give us the image of an idiot with an unwashed beard wearing hideous suspenders.

I was once told that my suspenders looked cool.

Yes, but you are an idiot. 

You always have to post the obvious.

Repetition aids learning.

 

[Matthew1323]

So please, only serious responses. Usually when a serious question about Jack Hyles' life is raised we usually have to endure 3 to 4 silly comments from the haters. All that does now is give us the image of an idiot with an unwashed beard wearing hideous suspenders.

I was once told that my suspenders looked cool.

Yes, but you are an idiot. 

You always have to post the obvious.

Repetition aids learning.

I also wash my beard weekly, whether I need it or not.

 

[fishinnut]

voted out of the Dallas Baptist Association, i.e. Southern Baptist Convention?

I would like to think I am a student of Jack Hyles' life. I've heard him preach many sermons and he was my pastor for almost 7 years. I have read many of his books and his biography.

While Jack Hyles was a very successful pastor, author, teacher, educator and professional he had many setbacks. Natural disasters and fire destroyed buildings, betrayal, fights with both the SBC & the ABC, numerous lawsuits, and at the end of his life a coordinated attack from enemies to destroy his ministry. Not to mention that he took doctrinal stands that were unpopular to some people.

Now from listening to him preach you can tell that the greatest professional setback he had was in October of 1957 when the Dallas Baptist Association refused to recognize the Miller Road Baptist Church and the Open Door Baptist Church pastored by Joe Boyd. A high official with the SBC is on record as saying publicly that the greatest mistake they ever made was voting out Jack Hyles and Joe Boyd. Recently I have wondered what caused the DBA to vote to remove fellowship with Jack Hyles and Joe Boyd.

From Dr. Hyles preaching and books, there are 3 schools of thought.

1. Dr. Hyles Association with John Rice, Lee Robertson, and Lester Roloff. Remember the lunch in the cafeteria in Dallas with the big wigs, and he slammed his fist on the table and Shouted, "I'm not for sale."

2. His personal friendship with Lester Roloff.
Early in his Hammond pastorate he preached a series telling his life story. If you listen to the tape on the Garland years, you can leave with the impression that his deep friendship with Lester Roloff was what caused the ouster.

3. In the book compiled by Ray Young, "Dr. Jack Hyles a Lifetime of Letters," personal correspondence seems to suggest that the reason for the ouster was an organization called, "The Texas Premillennial Baptist Fellowship," and a mission board they started, that was outside the umbrella of the Cooperative Program.

In the book it seems that Bro. Hyles was a maverick in the SBC and he didn't go along with their program 100%.

In a sermon shortly before his death, Bro. Hyles mentions that there was someone in the DBA who was the driving force to get him and Dr. Boyd kicked out. He said that years later the same man wrote him and asked him for advice on how to get his church growing and Dr. Hyles sent him a copy of the Book of Acts.

So hacker nation, what do you think?

Also some details that might be interesting.
1. Who was the DBA official responsible for the ouster?

2. Has anyone ever read the sermon, "Are We Still Southern Baptists?" that ran in the SoTL in the Nov. 29, 1957 issue of the SoTL?

Dr. Hyles has now been in Heaven for over 13 years. It is appropriate to study the life and history of this man like we would study the life and history of other men. So please, only serious responses. Usually when a serious question about Jack Hyles' life is raised we usually have to endure 3 to 4 silly comments from the haters. All that does now is give us the image of an idiot with an unwashed beard wearing hideous suspenders.

So this could be a good discussion.

Why would anyone still living know or care who was  "the someone in the DBA who was the driving force to get him and Dr. Boyd kicked out"?

 

[rsc2a]

Because WORSHIP THE MAN!

 

[no value]

So please, only serious responses. Usually when a serious question about Jack Hyles' life is raised we usually have to endure 3 to 4 silly comments from the haters. All that does now is give us the image of an idiot with an unwashed beard wearing hideous suspenders.

I was once told that my suspenders looked cool.

Yes, but you are an idiot. 

You always have to post the obvious.

Repetition aids learning.

I also wash my beard weekly, whether I need it or not.

I went to church last night, but I didn't enjoy it very much.

 

[breslau]

Beverly Hyles is a member of the SBC church that would have "driven" Jack Hyles out of the county association.  Then as now that same church is the dominant church in the county.

 

[Vince Massi]

Tennessean, as a student at HAC, I heard Jack tell the story more than once. He said that it was because of his strong stand against the modernism in the Convention's seminaries. He said that he scheduled to deliver a talk against the modernism when he was notified that he had been expelled from the Convention.

The part 3, about he and Joe Boyd founding a separate group within the Convention never came up, but it would explain a lot, if it is true. And if it is true, he never told us about it.

 

[no value]

As a person who leaned more toward the Joe Boyd side of the equation, I always had the impression that Hyles adored and respected Boyd, but Boyd wasn't necessarily ga-ga over Hyles. I never heard Brother Boyd speak unkindly of Hyles, and I never detected any disrespect of Hyles in Boyd's presence, but it was just one of those feelings that Boyd wasn't great guns for Hyles.

Joe Boyd was very protective of his preacher boys, albeit most of them were Hyles students/grads.

I always liked Joe Boyd and got more out of his preaching than Hyles' pablum.

 

[Bravo]

In reading this I am wondering how many times people from that group told stories about the time they kicked out two guys named Hyles and Boyd? Or was it not a big deal from their side of it?

 

[Tennessean]

Tennessean, as a student at HAC, I heard Jack tell the story more than once. He said that it was because of his strong stand against the modernism in the Convention's seminaries. He said that he scheduled to deliver a talk against the modernism when he was notified that he had been expelled from the Convention.

The part 3, about he and Joe Boyd founding a separate group within the Convention never came up, but it would explain a lot, if it is true. And if it is true, he never told us about it.

Vince,

This is the discussion I was hoping for.

Here is a quote from a letter written by Dr. Hyles to a missionary James Craig dated Nov. 4, 1957:

"...As you know, the recent action taken by the Association in ousting our church was because of our independent mission program..."

It seems to been a lot a things built up that made the denomination bosses mad at them. I wonder what tipped the iceberg, was it the mission board, not supporting the Cooperative program, Lester Roloff, associating with non Southern Baptists, seems like a lot of things added up.

And then I'm always curious for names. Who was it that was the driving force to get them ousted?

 

[Fresh Air]

The part 3, about he and Joe Boyd founding a separate group within the Convention never came up, but it would explain a lot, if it is true. And if it is true, he never told us about it.

It is true. Joe Boyd told me that story in the early 90's. They held meetings for the Texas Premillennial Baptist Fellowship on some big college campus for a couple of years. This would have been in the early/mid 50's.

 

[Tennessean]

Beverly Hyles is a member of the SBC church that would have "dtiven" Jack Hyles out of the county association.  Then as now that same church is the dominant church in the county.

If that's true then the pastor of FBC Dallas at the time was W.A. Criswell. Hard to believe that he was the driving force because Dr. Hyles maintained a friendship with him over the years. There seems to have been someone else behind the whole thing.

W.A. Criswell was a lightning rod between independent Baptists. The story is told that John R. Rice & Bob Jones Jr. had strong disagreement when Dr. Rice wanted to have Dr. Criswell speak at a Sword conference.

 

[IFB X-Files]

I have both books by John R. Rice, "Southern Baptists Wake Up!" (published 1963 - most articles written in the 1950's) and "Southern Baptists and Wolves in Sheep's Clothing" (published 1972).  Dr. Hyles is not mentioned in any of the articles I've read but Lee Roberson is and a report written by the local SBC chapter taking a stand against him.  Modernism and liberalism is the main reason for the separation. 

Of course, no one cares about this today.  Today's IFB church is probably more liberal than most SBC churches of the 50's.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

The part 3, about he and Joe Boyd founding a separate group within the Convention never came up, but it would explain a lot, if it is true. And if it is true, he never told us about it.

It is true. Joe Boyd told me that story in the early 90's. They held meetings for the Texas Premillennial Baptist Fellowship on some big college campus for a couple of years. This would have been in the early/mid 50's.

I think it was at these meetings that John R Rice and Hyles met up.  If not Rice, it was someone with a big name.  Hyles would tell the story of this big name preacher being asked to speak at the fellowship.  The response was: "But Jack, I'm not even a premillenialist!"  After the session, he told JH that he is now.  Again, I think this was Rice, but not certain.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I was always under the impression that JH was kicked out because of his association with Rice, Roloff and Roberson.  JH would frequently joke that the 3 R's got him in trouble - both in elementary and the pulpit.  JH would also comment about the Cooperative program's problems.  JH had a problem with his church's money being used for seminaries with dances or missionaries that were focused on humanitarian needs more than the Gospel.

 

[no value]

I remember hearing the great R G Lee preach "Payday Someday" at Pastors School in 1976 or 1977. Seems odd looking back that Hyles would invite a Southern Baptist pastor to preach from behind his pulpit, especially after him rail about how terrible the convention churches were.