Why is this type of honesty so rare?

[T-Bone]

http://youtu.be/rWu0N0qPeME

 

[christundivided]

I do understand but will you let me understand? Do you believe a white man can really understand racism? Be honest.... you're the one asking me to understand. I hope you will take my word that I am trying to understand.

I believe they can if they will listen to those who are experiencing it without crying paranoia  (I couldn't resist).  I think what hinders their understanding is their unwillingness to simple accept what those experiencing it tell them.  For instance your reference to "black folks" is offensive to many people.  To continue to use the term after one has been informed that it is offensive and African-American is preferred perceived as racism because one has taken the position "your feelings don't matter".  To other people African-American is offensive and the same would be true in that instance.  I am not offended by it but it doesn't fit to well since as my wife often reminds me most of the Cajuns in Louisiana are darker than I am.  LOL.........

I really don't think I for one expect you to fully understand any more than I fully understand the inequalities that women experience.  I do expect you to listen when someone is telling you something is racist and take the measures that you can to expose and eradicate it.  I do not expect you to apologize when the extreme racism of America's past is mentioned but I do expect you to acknowledge that it was without qualifier.  When someone says certain things are racially motivated I expect you to say, "explain to me what you see" instead of "here they go with the race card".  I do not expect you to be color blind but I expect you to be aware that there are cultural differences between European- and African-Americans and to accept and respect both cultures.

There is one other way to understand racism better.  According to my sister-in-law, daughter-in-law, and son-in-law marrying an African-American gives you a whole different view.  I don't guess that is an option for all white men. 

Thanks for the honest dialogue CU.

Thanks for the insight. I don't generally use the term "black folk". I did so for a reason. I believe you accept the fact I don't mean anything by. I am a product of my raising. Some things I've gotten past and some things I haven't. For most of my life, "black folk" wasn't an issue. Even post "civil rights". Then all of sudden, its an offensive term. I can't help but see where some African-Americans seems to "slide the shell" when it comes to racism. If they get something mostly eradicated......then they fabricate another one. Don't get me wrong. I don't think you're one of them. Yet, they do exist. Dull-ton is a prime example of this. 

I do agree with your analysis on white people understanding African-Americans. I can acceptance that. I reckon..... I just would like a little more acceptance that I generally want to see equality. I'm not "looking" to be racist. I believe there are many white people that feel the same way. I do accept different cultures or at least try to accept them. There are many things that aren't "bad" about "white culture". We're not so "bad" sometimes. We do get tired of the race card. Please realize that is part of our culture. We don't generally love to revisit things.... over and over. I'm not trying to offend you. I'm just trying to be honest. We "feel" that way. Right or wrong. We "feel" that way. Treat us like the "weaker vessel". Put up with us a little bit would ya....

I married a beautiful white women, I wouldn't change anything about my choice. .....but I wouldn't have been opposed to marrying an African-American women. My friend I mentioned earlier..... tells me all the time..... that my daughter is going to come home one day wanting to marry a 'black man". I always tell him, that I'm fine with that. As long as she loves him and he loves her and they want to live as God see's fit. BUT, I don't want her making any decision based "sticking it to the man" or reviling in a what she considers a "rebellious action". I know white girls that have married a African-American just to upset their family. That is the wrong reason to marry. I don't care that you know it. These same "white girls" have end up regretting doing so. Not because they had to face "racism" first hand. They regretted it because they made a bad choice in the person.... Yet, they did it primarily for one reason. You know this happens.

I don't think my friend believes me at times because I have the guts to tell him such things. I sometimes think he believes I'm being a racist because I have the guts to even mentioning such things to him. I'm not. I'm not afraid to share my feelings about such issues. Overall, I think he believes me for the most part. He does put up with me and call me a "friend". I'd do most anything for him and him for me. We don't have to always agree. That isn't what friendships are about.

 

[graceandtruth]

I do understand but will you let me understand? Do you believe a white man can really understand racism? Be honest.... you're the one asking me to understand. I hope you will take my word that I am trying to understand.

I believe they can if they will listen to those who are experiencing it without crying paranoia  (I couldn't resist).  I think what hinders their understanding is their unwillingness to simple accept what those experiencing it tell them.  For instance your reference to "black folks" is offensive to many people.  To continue to use the term after one has been informed that it is offensive and African-American is preferred perceived as racism because one has taken the position "your feelings don't matter".  To other people African-American is offensive and the same would be true in that instance.  I am not offended by it but it doesn't fit to well since as my wife often reminds me most of the Cajuns in Louisiana are darker than I am.  LOL.........

I really don't think I for one expect you to fully understand any more than I fully understand the inequalities that women experience.  I do expect you to listen when someone is telling you something is racist and take the measures that you can to expose and eradicate it.  I do not expect you to apologize when the extreme racism of America's past is mentioned but I do expect you to acknowledge that it was without qualifier.  When someone says certain things are racially motivated I expect you to say, "explain to me what you see" instead of "here they go with the race card".  I do not expect you to be color blind but I expect you to be aware that there are cultural differences between European- and African-Americans and to accept and respect both cultures.

There is one other way to understand racism better.  According to my sister-in-law, daughter-in-law, and son-in-law marrying an African-American gives you a whole different view.  I don't guess that is an option for all white men. 

Thanks for the honest dialogue CU.

Thanks for the insight. I don't generally use the term "black folk". I did so for a reason. I believe you accept the fact I don't mean anything by. I am a product of my raising. Some things I've gotten past and some things I haven't. For most of my life, "black folk" wasn't an issue. Even post "civil rights". Then all of sudden, its an offensive term. I can't help but see where some African-Americans seems to "slide the shell" when it comes to racism. If they get something mostly eradicated......then they fabricate another one. Don't get me wrong. I don't think you're one of them. Yet, they do exist. Dull-ton is a prime example of this. 

I do agree with your analysis on white people understanding African-Americans. I can acceptance that. I reckon..... I just would like a little more acceptance that I generally want to see equality. I'm not "looking" to be racist. I believe there are many white people that feel the same way. I do accept different cultures or at least try to accept them. There are many things that aren't "bad" about "white culture". We're not so "bad" sometimes. We do get tired of the race card. Please realize that is part of our culture. We don't generally love to revisit things.... over and over. I'm not trying to offend you. I'm just trying to be honest. We "feel" that way. Right or wrong. We "feel" that way. Treat us like the "weaker vessel". Put up with us a little bit would ya....

I married a beautiful white women, I wouldn't change anything about my choice. .....but I wouldn't have been opposed to marrying an African-American women. My friend I mentioned earlier..... tells me all the time..... that my daughter is going to come home one day wanting to marry a 'black man". I always tell him, that I'm fine with that. As long as she loves him and he loves her and they want to live as God see's fit. BUT, I don't want her making any decision based "sticking it to the man" or reviling in a what she considers a "rebellious action". I know white girls that have married a African-American just to upset their family. That is the wrong reason to marry. I don't care that you know it. These same "white girls" have end up regretting doing so. Not because they had to face "racism" first hand. They regretted it because they made a bad choice in the person.... Yet, they did it primarily for one reason. You know this happens.

I don't think my friend believes me at times because I have the guts to tell him such things. I sometimes think he believes I'm being a racist because I have the guts to even mentioning such things to him. I'm not. I'm not afraid to share my feelings about such issues. Overall, I think he believes me for the most part. He does put up with me and call me a "friend". I'd do most anything for him and him for me. We don't have to always agree. That isn't what friendships are about.

No argument here.  We are in total agreement except my wife is a beautiful black woman.  Thanks for the time and the honesty CU. 

By the way, I am glad you said friends don't have to always agree.  Now we can be internet friends as we continue to disagree on the other thread....LOL

 

[Just John]

First some background....The only "south" I come from is Southern California and further South Orange County. I never went to school with an African-American (AA for short to follow) until attending college. My mom, from Louisiana and dad, from CA, were very conservative but I can never remember a single racist joke or putdown of AA's from them in my life....but at the same time my dad liked George Wallace. I believe it was because my dad was a true believer in what he saw as "federalism".

We went to a very large, very conservative, especially political, IFB church. I  do not recall any overt racism but because the county then, as now (4%) had very few AA's there just wasn't a point to talk about. In one sense that was collusion by silence but again, just not a local issue. I only rarely heard kids at the Christian school I went to tell racist jokes, unless you include Pollack jokes. They were popular then.  Again, black issues just didn't enter the equation.

Seeing things one way

As a younger kid I would occasionally venture outside the cocoon with my parents or older brothers into the Los Angeles area. I would be jarred by the projects and barrios in the poor areas and would see the gang-bangers just hanging around. In Jr. High I was the last to get off the spectator bus going to a high school basketball game in LA and beat up by a few older teenage AA's because I wouldn't give them my wallet.  It did not go unnoticed by an impressionable kid with not much else to go on. I did not become a raging racist on a hobby horse but it was not hard not to be prejudiced with such little exposure.

And another

I never really got to know an AA very well until my early thirties. He was a very wise individual. (He just happened to be a Southern Baptist too.) I did not like his politics but I liked him a lot and learned many life lessons from him. I grew to be convicted of my racism, realized God made and loved all races the same and I was not loving others as he did. Then about 5 years ago I met a very pretty young lady who had her doctorate from Duke and was on the faculty there. More than just a bit smart. I was very attracted to her and we dated for about 18 months or so and still remain friends. I learned a lot from her as well. She NEVER complained or played the victim game (and didn't like Sharpton or J. Jackson) but she did open my eyes to some subtle racism that I would never understand otherwise. Little things like going to a jewelry store and automatically being taken to the cheap jewelry first. She told me it happened all the time and to other of her friends...who could afford the good stuff. BTW...we dated in Raleigh. NC and as far as I know we never drew a second look.

Now for the disagreement...

I don't disagree terribly with Yancey but I do think he chose to leave a more favorable view aside. Instead of saying just it took until 2008 for the Southern Baptists to apologize for slavery he chose not to write the Southern Baptists VOTED in an AA President. That is a pretty historic happening. He mentions Obama being elected but it could not have happened without a very large slice of white voters.

Most disturbing to me was at least one of the commenter's making the claim that to be against President Obama comes from a racist viewpoint. That is ridiculous! I am a conservative! I do not like President Obama's politics or IMO arrogance anymore than I like Al Gore's politics or IMO arrogance. THIS is the kind of stuff that makes some people angry. It IS pulling the race card, playing the victim and blaming others. Of course it is not one-sided. But that comment was every bit as prejudiced as any other.