Why I no longer worship.

Smellin Coffee

Smellin Coffee

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I no longer worship.

I'm a hypocrite because that's not completely true; worship is in our DNA and is universal among all humans and cultures. Our desires create the object of worship. Apart from that contradiction which is within all humanity, here is why I don't worship God.

1. God exists beyond time and space.
2. Mankind is incapable of understanding what or if anything exists outside of time and space (though the Cosmological argument tends to suggest there has to be).
3. Because we cannot know if/what exists, the best we can do is speculate through projection of what exists out there, whether that is an actual deity, multiple deities, a hierarchy of deities or even a product of Simulation Theory. (No, I don't believe in Simulation Theory though I do believe it could be possible.)
4. The "god" of human worship is meant to provide meaning, wholeness and completeness at some point in history, whether in our time on earth or in some future manner such as afterlife, heaven and/or a revamped earthly kingdom.
5. Because of mankind's inability to comprehend objects/beings/science, much less understand anything that exists outside of time and space, we rely on whatever influences we believe most logical to our relative opinion. That logic could be through a holy book. Could be through other people. Could be through unexplained circumstances relative to each believer. Could be through tragedies or victories. Could be through Intelligent Design (which I do believe in). etc. These things lead to an individual's projection of what God is, how God acts, how God affects or communicates.
6. When people worship God, we (myself included) worship our relative projection of what God really is. There is no other way we can worship outside our own bias.
7. The worship of God without it being a god of personal projection is impossible.
8. The worship of projection is idolatry. Hence, the worship of any god can only be the practice if idolatry.

Yes, my position IS a contradiction because nothing can be at one with itself at all times. The fact that I even suggest something exists beyond time/space violates the very same premise that we can't know about anything existing outside of time/space. Even using the biblical ideology of idolatry as a premise for my argument is also a contradiction because it would suggest God is using the Bible as (at the very least) a lawbook or guide of some kind.

Regardless, here I stand at this given moment in time, accepting the living contradiction that is me.

Be blessed. :)
 
Wow. I thought I overthought things... Of course, if I had the attention span needed to lay out what I believe and why, it would look a lot like this.

All I can say is, enjoy... I'm not the One who is going to hold you accountable. I wish the best for you.
 
abcaines said:
Wow. I thought I overthought things... Of course, if I had the attention span needed to lay out what I believe and why, it would look a lot like this.

All I can say is, enjoy... I'm not the One who is going to hold you accountable. I wish the best for you.
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Trust me…none of that spiel was an original thought.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
1. God exists beyond time and space.
2. Mankind is incapable of understanding what or if anything exists outside of time and space (though the Cosmological argument tends to suggest there has to be).
3. Because we cannot know if/what exists, the best we can do is speculate through projection of what exists out there, whether that is an actual deity, multiple deities, a hierarchy of deities or even a product of Simulation Theory. (No, I don't believe in Simulation Theory though I do believe it could be possible.)
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So, you're a Deist now?

God most certainly is transcendent existing outside of the realm of space and time. He is eternally existent, uncreated, and self-sufficient. You can read this all in the theology proper section of the systematic theology of your choosing so I will not drone on about stuff you can or should have looked up and read for yourself. I am guessing that HAC probably was not too strong in their study of systematic theology except for the parts that say you ought to be out "Soul-Winning" right?

God is not only transcendent but is at the same time Immanent with his creation calling all the stars and telling them by name (Psa 147:4), knows the affairs of the least of his creation and the number of hairs on your head (Mt 10:29-31). There is nothing hid from God that he does not know that shall not be brought to light on the day of judgment (Heb 4:13).

But the one smoking gun is found in Romans 1:20 - For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I do not have to say anything to prove this is the word of God, You know it to be true, EVERYONE knows it to be true including anyone who has never read Romans 1:20 in their life!

Smellin Coffee said:
4. The "god" of human worship is meant to provide meaning, wholeness and completeness at some point in history, whether in our time on earth or in some future manner such as afterlife, heaven and/or a revamped earthly kingdom.
5. Because of mankind's inability to comprehend objects/beings/science, much less understand anything that exists outside of time and space, we rely on whatever influences we believe most logical to our relative opinion. That logic could be through a holy book. Could be through other people. Could be through unexplained circumstances relative to each believer. Could be through tragedies or victories. Could be through Intelligent Design (which I do believe in). etc. These things lead to an individual's projection of what God is, how God acts, how God affects or communicates.
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You give mankind far too much credit! The "god" of human worship is a god concocted up by his vain imagination and it has absolutely nothing to do with anyone sincerely searching out who is the "One True God!

Romans 1:21-23 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.​

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.​

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.​

An "Honest Skeptic" is an oxymoron! They are searching for everything else BESIDES the truth!
Smellin Coffee said:
6. When people worship God, we (myself included) worship our relative projection of what God really is. There is no other way we can worship outside our own bias.
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God works with the limitations of our understanding using anthropomorphisms such as "The Eyes of the Lord," and "his hand is stretched out still" even though God is Spirit without parts or complexity. God commanded "No Graven Images" because of the impossibility to come up with a visible image of an invisible God!
Smellin Coffee said:
7. The worship of God without it being a god of personal projection is impossible.
8. The worship of projection is idolatry. Hence, the worship of any god can only be the practice if idolatry.
Click to expand...
As stated, every person KNOWS of the true and living God and that he is to be worshipped.

You are no different from anyone else who has stepped away from "Faith!" I have seen it far too many times now and it is usually a gradual slip into apostacy! It usually starts with questioning of the inspiration, authority and sufficiency of the scriptures! If they can cast doubt upon the Word of God, everything else will come crashing down around them!

KJVOs may have a flawed view of inspiration and preservation of God's word but at least THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE A BIBLE! The problem is you let someone take your Bible from you and without it, you are unable to become wise unto salvation!

You really need to ask yourself why is there a book that was written over the course of 1500 years by over 40 different authors of differing walks of on three continents - Europe, Asia, Africa, written in three languages - Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic would be so unified in PORTRAYING ALL OF MANKIND IN SUCH AN UNFLATTERING LIGHT?

If the Bible were simply written by man according to man's wisdom, don't you think he would speak more highly of himself? Do we not see such everywhere else ASIDE FROM the Judeo-Christian Scriptures and in every other religion aside from Christianity and Historic Judaism?
 
Smellin Coffee said:
I no longer worship.

I'm a hypocrite because that's not completely true; worship is in our DNA and is universal among all humans and cultures. Our desires create the object of worship. Apart from that contradiction which is within all humanity, here is why I don't worship God.

1. God exists beyond time and space.
2. Mankind is incapable of understanding what or if anything exists outside of time and space (though the Cosmological argument tends to suggest there has to be).
3. Because we cannot know if/what exists, the best we can do is speculate through projection of what exists out there, whether that is an actual deity, multiple deities, a hierarchy of deities or even a product of Simulation Theory. (No, I don't believe in Simulation Theory though I do believe it could be possible.)
4. The "god" of human worship is meant to provide meaning, wholeness and completeness at some point in history, whether in our time on earth or in some future manner such as afterlife, heaven and/or a revamped earthly kingdom.
5. Because of mankind's inability to comprehend objects/beings/science, much less understand anything that exists outside of time and space, we rely on whatever influences we believe most logical to our relative opinion. That logic could be through a holy book. Could be through other people. Could be through unexplained circumstances relative to each believer. Could be through tragedies or victories. Could be through Intelligent Design (which I do believe in). etc. These things lead to an individual's projection of what God is, how God acts, how God affects or communicates.
6. When people worship God, we (myself included) worship our relative projection of what God really is. There is no other way we can worship outside our own bias.
7. The worship of God without it being a god of personal projection is impossible.
8. The worship of projection is idolatry. Hence, the worship of any god can only be the practice if idolatry.

Yes, my position IS a contradiction because nothing can be at one with itself at all times. The fact that I even suggest something exists beyond time/space violates the very same premise that we can't know about anything existing outside of time/space. Even using the biblical ideology of idolatry as a premise for my argument is also a contradiction because it would suggest God is using the Bible as (at the very least) a lawbook or guide of some kind.

Regardless, here I stand at this given moment in time, accepting the living contradiction that is me.

Be blessed. :)
Click to expand...

Have you tried one of Craig Groeschell's satellite churches? He wrote the infamous best seller "The Christian Atheist".
 
AntiMegaChurch said:
Have you tried one of Craig Groeschell's satellite churches? He wrote the infamous best seller "The Christian Atheist".
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Dear one-string banjo:

If you're going to spam every thread with your "AntiMegaChurch" nonsense, at least have the smarts to spell "Groeschel" properly.
 
The word 'apostasy' rings in my mind when I think about Smellin'...
Too bad.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
The theobro mentality:

View attachment 4418
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“Being privately spiritual but not religious just doesn't interest me. There is nothing challenging about having deep thoughts all by oneself. What is interesting is doing this work in community, where other people might call you on stuff, or heaven forbid, disagree with you. Where life with God gets rich and provocative is when you dig deeply into a tradition that you did not invent all for yourself.
Thank you for sharing, spiritual-but-not-religious sunset person. You are now comfortably in the norm for self-centered American culture, right smack in the bland majority of people who find ancient religions dull but find themselves uniquely fascinating. Can I switch seats now and sit next to someone who has been shaped by a mighty cloud of witnesses instead? Can I spend my time talking to someone brave enough to encounter God in a real human community? Because when this flight gets choppy, that's who I want by my side, holding my hand, saying a prayer and simply putting up with me, just like we try to do in church. “—Lillian Daniel
 
abcaines said:
Reminds me of a song...


Like him or not, Bob Dylan pretty much nailed it with this one.
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I wonder if Dylan has waffled back to Christianity yet?
 
ALAYMAN said:
I wonder if Dylan has waffled back to Christianity yet?
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Not sure he ever was there. When Keith Green died, (they were friends) he hung it up. I've heard him say that period of his life was just a phase he was going through. He did imitate the talk fairly well though.
 
abcaines said:
Not sure he ever was there. When Keith Green died, (they were friends) he hung it up. I've heard him say that period of his life was just a phase he was going through. He did imitate the talk fairly well though.
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That was a loong time ago. I really enjoyed Keith in my young years as a Christian.
 
abcaines said:
Not sure he ever was there. When Keith Green died, (they were friends) he hung it up. I've heard him say that period of his life was just a phase he was going through. He did imitate the talk fairly well though.
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Yeah, this gets back into the same discussion we were hashing out when we were talking about Jonah and the Ninevites over a week ago. It’s not my prerogative to decide, but I am curious because of his enigmatic journey. Very recently he said….

“I’m a religious person. I read the scriptures a lot, meditate and pray, light candles in church. I believe in damnation and salvation, as well as predestination. The Five Books of Moses, Pauline Epistles, Invocation of the Saints, all of it.”

That is pretty sloppy and convoluted, and doesn’t leave us any closer to anything definitive than we were before, but it is interesting, nonetheless.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Yeah, this gets back into the same discussion we were hashing out when we were talking about Jonah and the Ninevites over a week ago. It’s not my prerogative to decide, but I am curious because of his enigmatic journey. Very recently he said….

“I’m a religious person. I read the scriptures a lot, meditate and pray, light candles in church. I believe in damnation and salvation, as well as predestination. The Five Books of Moses, Pauline Epistles, Invocation of the Saints, all of it.”

That is pretty sloppy and convoluted, and doesn’t leave us any closer to anything definitive than we were before, but it is interesting, nonetheless.
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Hmmm... Only God judges rightly. I've tried numerous times to assist Him. I keep getting rebuffed.

For Bob's sake, I hope he's safe... Great glory to God either way.
 
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