Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today

[jimmudcatgrant]

R2D2 wrote: "Really...what's the point? I'll give you a starting place...our modern idea of "homosexuality" would have been completely foreign to the NT writers. If you can tell me why this is significant, I might continue."

I would like to hear it, because we can argue definitions all day long, but are you saying the N.T. writers didn't condemn two men having sex, or two women having sex?  If so, that would be news to me, and I don't think that can be proven from scripture.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

Thanks for the link, Jim!  8)

No worries.  I've been meaning to read it myself.

 

[Izdaari]

thethinkingrebel wrote: "What I dislike about the KJV is that its unintelligible, and that's not because of archaic language, but because most of it was so badly translated."

Really?  So you don't have any problem with the mss used, just their translations of the mss?

And what leads you to think they totally blew the translation?  Are you proficient in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, as well as Latin?

Let me define unintelligible: not capable of being understood.  Your statement that the KJV is not capable of being understood is ridiculous, begging your pardon.  Good thing all you critics weren't around when I got saved or you might have talked me out of it since it is such a bad book.  NOT  I didn't have a problem understanding it at all when I got saved.  Imagine that.  The fact is that no one would understand any version of God's word were it not for the Holy Spirit giving us the faith to do so.

It can be understood, but it is more difficult reading than modern translations, and includes a lot of archaic vocabulary, including words that seem familiar but are used to mean something completely different. Other than its literary value, why go to all that trouble?

It's a very good translation (state of the art for 1611) into an archaic dialect. For daily use, what I want, and what most people want, is a translation into contemporary English, not the nearly Shakespearean English of the royal court of King James.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

thethinkingrebel wrote: "What I dislike about the KJV is that its unintelligible, and that's not because of archaic language, but because most of it was so badly translated."

Really?  So you don't have any problem with the mss used, just their translations of the mss?

And what leads you to think they totally blew the translation?  Are you proficient in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, as well as Latin?

Let me define unintelligible: not capable of being understood.  Your statement that the KJV is not capable of being understood is ridiculous, begging your pardon.  Good thing all you critics weren't around when I got saved or you might have talked me out of it since it is such a bad book.  NOT  I didn't have a problem understanding it at all when I got saved.  Imagine that.  The fact is that no one would understand any version of God's word were it not for the Holy Spirit giving us the faith to do so.

It can be understood, but it is more difficult reading than modern translations, and includes a lot of archaic vocabulary, including words that seem familiar but are used to mean something completely different. Other than its literary value, why go to all that trouble?

It's a very good translation (state of the art for 1611) into an archaic dialect. For daily use, what I want, and what most people want, is a translation into contemporary English, not the nearly Shakespearean English of the royal court of King James.

I shouldn't have wrote "all you bible critics", thus grouping you with his thinking.  My apologies, to you and others that aren't that dogmatic.  The word unintelligible was being used by him for the whole book and that simply is not true.  I agree that many of the words are archaic, but that doesn't stop study.  I have studied the KJV for 3 decades and I have many verses memorized.  Did  I need some tools?  Yes.  But there is no version out there that I don't use tools to study.  Granted, young Christians need a study bible, like the newest KJV study bible that defines the archaic words.  I understand it would be easier to put the modern word there to start with.  I won't argue that point.  I am just saying it is not unintelligible.  Besides, I enjoy reading other versions.  The NLT is one that I use, but sometimes it takes just a little bit too much liberty in the paraphrase, imo. But I am thinking about finding me a KJV/NLT parallel bible to take to church if I can find one that doesn't weigh 10 pounds. 

 

[christundivided]

Fred Phelps? How is your church doing!?!?

I hear you. I do believe homosexuals can be saved. However, I don't believe they will remain homosexuals. I'm nothing like "Phelps".

This comment is just disgusting. You do realize that "joy" and "fulfillment" and "happy" can come from places other than children right? I guess I should tell the couples I know who cannot have kids that life is just going to suck for them.

Go ahead and tell them. I personally have a sister-in-law that can't have children. She is devastated. In fact. She would DO ANYTHING SHE COULD to change IT. Get it?

Why in the world a moron would choose to willingly reject having their own children is beyond me. Have you read the Scriptures? Have you ever read.... Psalm 127:3? Have you ever read Proverbs 31?

Get a life. You're zeal to promote homosexuality has ruined your theology.

 

[christundivided]

I didn't know it was possible for me to buy a copy of Enoch in English, but checking Amazon, I see that it is. Good, it'll be interesting reading. And I know it is definitely NOT canonical.

But, whether you consider me too ignorant or not, I will continue to study theology, and may even go to seminary. Possibly I will become an Episcopal priest or Lutheran (ELCA) pastor.

Since you know so well....Tell me why it isn't? The Ethiopian church disagrees with you.

 

[christundivided]

Then God said,

 

[rsc2a]

Fred Phelps? How is your church doing!?!?

I hear you. I do believe homosexuals can be saved. However, I don't believe they will remain homosexuals. I'm nothing like "Phelps".

Homosexuality is common among serial killers - christundivided
You show me a person that is actively practicing a homosexual lifestyle and you'll also see a person that cares little about ethics and morality.  - christundivided
UNLESS and that is a BIG UNLESS..... it has something to do with their own agenda. THEN they will pretend they care about "charity" or the good of their fellow man. - christundivided

You're right...you are nothing like Phelps.  :

Then God said,

 

[rsc2a]

R2D2 wrote: "Really...what's the point? I'll give you a starting place...our modern idea of "homosexuality" would have been completely foreign to the NT writers. If you can tell me why this is significant, I might continue."

I would like to hear it, because we can argue definitions all day long, but are you saying the N.T. writers didn't condemn two men having sex, or two women having sex?  If so, that would be news to me, and I don't think that can be proven from scripture.

Here you go Jim: http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/sexuality/a/aa011400a.htm

And, no I am not saying they didn't condemn that behavior. They condemned all sex outside of marriage.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

R2D2 wrote: "Really...what's the point? I'll give you a starting place...our modern idea of "homosexuality" would have been completely foreign to the NT writers. If you can tell me why this is significant, I might continue."

I would like to hear it, because we can argue definitions all day long, but are you saying the N.T. writers didn't condemn two men having sex, or two women having sex?  If so, that would be news to me, and I don't think that can be proven from scripture.

Here you go Jim: http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/sexuality/a/aa011400a.htm

And, no I am not saying they didn't condemn that behavior. They condemned all sex outside of marriage.

While I agree this thinking is different from our own, it is the thinking of the Romans, not the writers of the N.T.  The writers of the N.T. no doubt felt more like this writing from Rabbi Michael Gold, "Does God Belong in the Bedroom?"

Biblical Sources

The basis of the prohibition against homosexual acts derives from two biblical verses in Leviticus:

 

[christundivided]

R2D2 wrote: "Really...what's the point? I'll give you a starting place...our modern idea of "homosexuality" would have been completely foreign to the NT writers. If you can tell me why this is significant, I might continue."

I would like to hear it, because we can argue definitions all day long, but are you saying the N.T. writers didn't condemn two men having sex, or two women having sex?  If so, that would be news to me, and I don't think that can be proven from scripture.

Here you go Jim: http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/sexuality/a/aa011400a.htm

And, no I am not saying they didn't condemn that behavior. They condemned all sex outside of marriage.

Got to love basing your beliefs on "about.com". Sound reasonable to me.  :-\

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]While I agree this thinking is different from our own, it is the thinking of the Romans, not the writers of the N.T....[/quote]

Paul was a Roman citizen...

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]In other words, homosexuality homosexual relationships undermines and threatens the Jewish ideal of family life, of marriage and children, articulated in the Torah. Heterosexuality is the communal norm. [/quote]

Of course.  (Although I did slightly modify it.)

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Got to love basing your beliefs on "about.com". Sound reasonable to me.  :-\[/quote]

You don't have a clue about proper Biblical interpretation methods, do you?

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]While I agree this thinking is different from our own, it is the thinking of the Romans, not the writers of the N.T....

Paul was a Roman citizen...

[quote author=jimmudcatgrant]In other words, homosexuality homosexual relationships undermines and threatens the Jewish ideal of family life, of marriage and children, articulated in the Torah. Heterosexuality is the communal norm. [/quote]

Of course.  (Although I did slightly modify it.)

Paul was a Roman citizen but Jewish in thinking. No way he subscribed to their way of thinking on this subject.
It was interesting to see how Romans viewed manhood. Seems backwards to us as we would think the aggresor is the one that is the punk, so to speak, in the vernacular of my youth.

 

[Enow]

By Daniel Wallace

First, I want to affirm with all evangelical Christians that the Bible is the Word of God, inerrant, inspired, and our final authority for faith and life. However, nowhere in the Bible am I told that only one translation of it is the correct one. Nowhere am I told that the King James Bible is the best or only

The scripture is to testify of Jesus Christ:  John 5:39  so that readers & seekers may come to Him  John 5:40

The Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself ( John 16:13 ) when testifying of the Son ( John 15:26 ) in seeking His glory ( John 16:14 )

Believers are not to speak of themselves ( John 5:31 ) but to seek the glory of the One that sent them by speaking of Him ( John 15:27 ) and not of themselves in seeking their own glory ( John 7:18 )  thus why the necessity to decrease so that He may increase ( John 6:28-30 ) as we are not to preach ourselves at all ( 2 Corinthians 4:5-7 )

Thus as a combined witness as with the Holy Spirit as led by the Holy Spirit ( John 15:26-27 ) our individual witness of the Son can be true ( John 8:17 )

Therefore ... in translations, if the KJV has it in keeping to the testimony of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son, and not decline from that testimony of the Son by falsely sharing that particular glory of the Son's with the Spirit or with a believer as modern Bibles have done in several places, then thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd, I shall be sticking with the KJV.

You have to ask yourself why people are still churning out modern Bibles as if they have not been able to provide an easier to read Bible than the KJV yet.

With all of those modern Bibles, are they really seeking to serve God or mammon?

Seems to me that believers should be turning to the Lord Jesus Christ for wisdom in understanding His words and not relying on "educated men" to do the job for them.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. ....27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

If you want to know why so many Protestant believers are falling away from the faith and even getting more and more talking like Pentecostals & Charismatics in regards to the Holy Spirit, it is because of those modern Bibles helping the devil say to them, "Did God really say that?" and why this prophesy is happening even now.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it. 13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

So once again:  to discern any false teachings or apostasy, it does not matter how many scripture they pull out out of the modern Bibles to justify it, always check with the KJV and the Good Shepherd at that throne of grace for the final word on any thing because the KJV is keeping the meat of His words to discern good & evil in these latter days when faith is hard to find.

 

[bgwilkinson]

By Daniel Wallace

First, I want to affirm with all evangelical Christians that the Bible is the Word of God, inerrant, inspired, and our final authority for faith and life. However, nowhere in the Bible am I told that only one translation of it is the correct one. Nowhere am I told that the King James Bible is the best or only

The scripture is to testify of Jesus Christ:  John 5:39  so that readers & seekers may come to Him  John 5:40

The Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself ( John 16:13 ) when testifying of the Son ( John 15:26 ) in seeking His glory ( John 16:14 )

Believers are not to speak of themselves ( John 5:31 ) but to seek the glory of the One that sent them by speaking of Him ( John 15:27 ) and not of themselves in seeking their own glory ( John 7:18 )  thus why the necessity to decrease so that He may increase ( John 6:28-30 ) as we are not to preach ourselves at all ( 2 Corinthians 4:5-7 )

Thus as a combined witness as with the Holy Spirit as led by the Holy Spirit ( John 15:26-27 ) our individual witness of the Son can be true ( John 8:17 )

Therefore ... in translations, if the KJV has it in keeping to the testimony of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son, and not decline from that testimony of the Son by falsely sharing that particular glory of the Son's with the Spirit or with a believer as modern Bibles have done in several places, then thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd, I shall be sticking with the KJV.

You have to ask yourself why people are still churning out modern Bibles as if they have not been able to provide an easier to read Bible than the KJV yet.

With all of those modern Bibles, are they really seeking to serve God or mammon?

Seems to me that believers should be turning to the Lord Jesus Christ for wisdom in understanding His words and not relying on "educated men" to do the job for them.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. ....27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

If you want to know why so many Protestant believers are falling away from the faith and even getting more and more talking like Pentecostals & Charismatics in regards to the Holy Spirit, it is because of those modern Bibles helping the devil say to them, "Did God really say that?" and why this prophesy is happening even now.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: 12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it. 13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

So once again:  to discern any false teachings or apostasy, it does not matter how many scripture they pull out out of the modern Bibles to justify it, always check with the KJV and the Good Shepherd at that throne of grace for the final word on any thing because the KJV is keeping the meat of His words to discern good & evil in these latter days when faith is hard to find.

You are churning out KJVO talking points.

 

[Biblebeliever]

God's Historical Witness to Absolute Truth = the King James Bible 


http://brandplucked.webs.com/absolutestandard.htm

 

[Ransom]

God's Historical Witness to Absolute Truth = the King James Bible

Will Kinney's witness to numerical coincidences. Nothing more.

 

[bgwilkinson]

God's Historical Witness to Absolute Truth = the King James Bible


http://brandplucked.webs.com/absolutestandard.htm

KJVO alert

 

[bgwilkinson]

God's Historical Witness to Absolute Truth = the King James Bible


http://brandplucked.webs.com/absolutestandard.htm

God's Historical Witness to Absolute Truth = The Latin Vulgate

The Bible used by the Western Church for over 1,0000 years.
Probably more people were saved and revivals conducted using Jeromes version then any other version, excluding the LXX.