And why are Arminians always so bothered about this?
Why Do Calvinists Think They Have Superior Theology?
- Thread starter Baptist Renegade
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Probably because they were once Arminians and as they studied Scripture closely, the Calvinist framework was more clearly supported by it. That is my case, but I don't hold Arminians in derision, or think I am superior.
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Bite me, Ray! LOL So, you really ARE here to try and convert us to the teachings of Calvin, eh?And why are Arminians always so bothered about this?
Actually, I was thinking from the perception of Arminians that they THINK all Calvinists are arrogant because they have a superior theology... Er...I mean THINK we have a superior theology!
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Well, I think you know by now I don't let anyone know where I stand on this issue. It's really nobody's business. But, it's fun to keep them guessing! I think both sides believe they have superior theology...but, hey...guess what! They don't.Actually, I was thinking from the perception of Arminians that they THINK all Calvinists are arrogant because they have a superior theology... Er...I mean THINK we have a superior theology!
Nah! Just trying to stir the pot!Bite me, Ray! LOL So, you really ARE here to try and convert us to the teachings of Calvin, eh?
I mean c'mon now! A forum space exclusively for the purpose of discussing Calvinism and Arminianism and it is not even living up to its potential?
Really now, sometimes you just gotta say...
Actually, this is the way that Charles Ryrie handled it and he seems to treat both sides fairly in his "Biblical Theology of the New Testament" which was a textbook a couple semesters ago. I don't think he actually was because of his involvement and associations with the "Free Grace" movement where he was a voice of moderation.
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Because if we didn't think we had superior theology, we'd believe the theology of the people who did.
I was wondering why don't they feel like they have superior theology if they think they are right?Because if we didn't think we had superior theology, we'd believe the theology of the people who did.
I mean, I would like to believe that I have the best theology possible! Right?
If I believed that AverageJoe (for example) had better theology than myself, I'd want to hear him out and adopt some of his theological views I believed to be better than mine! If I believe my theology to be superior, I do not wish to be arrogant but I do desire to be that "Iron that sharpeneth iron" and help a fellow brother along! Only if they ask though!
Well, one side believes God is sovereign.
The other side believes God conforms to man’s decisions.
Seems pretty clear which one is the superior, ultimate, and orthodox position!
The other side believes God conforms to man’s decisions.
Seems pretty clear which one is the superior, ultimate, and orthodox position!
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That's not what they believe and you know it. Talk about being a prevaricator!
Again...your opinion...and you're welcome to it.Seems pretty clear which one is the superior, ultimate, and orthodox position!
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Nothing wrong with "Freeing your Willy!" just don't do so in public spaces!Good enough for me. I'm a Tulip, not a Free Willy.
So… tell me how the other side does not believe that “God conforms to man’s decisions.”
I was taught semi-Pelagian (Arminianism) at college where God’s foreknowledge (plan) was based on man’s (future) decisions.
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Most of the people I know who hold to the position of free will believe that God, though all-knowing and all-powerful, believe that God in his sovereignty has ALLOWED man to make the decision on their salvation, but already knows what their choice will be individually. He, like we, knows that all will not accept, and he knows who will...yet, he doesn't impose his choice over theirs. Semantics and a matter of timing...but, that's what they believe. Blanket statements like yours are a bloviating fool's way of describing this and are the whole reason many believe Calvinists to be arrogant. At times, I have to say I agree.
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Right.
The loaded language that God "conforms" to the will of man is the caricature and misleading characterization of people's beliefs that are as you describe.
Hmm…. If God looks down the tunnel of time to determine His plan, not only is God dependent on man’s future choice, he is learning and then conforms his plan to man’s future decision.
Actually, I am not the one who came up with the word “conform.” It comes from those who believe that God looked down that tunnel. You call it “bloviations,” I’m just tracing the trail (“quoting”) theologians.
Actually, I am not the one who came up with the word “conform.” It comes from those who believe that God looked down that tunnel. You call it “bloviations,” I’m just tracing the trail (“quoting”) theologians.
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If God looked down the annals of time to see who would choose God of their own free will, he would see NOBODY! Do I really need to elaborate why?
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God's will is not contingent upon man's, so there's no if/then which dictates Gods sovereign will. Furthermore it is, to my notion, error to speak of God being constrained by time like he has to look down so corridor of time. He exists outside of time so he is not dependent upon time for his choices.
Do you define “foreknowledge” as “to know beforehand?”