Who Are the 144,000 in Revelation?

[IFB X-Files]

"Who Are the 144,000 in Revelation?"

They are those who believed that "1..2..3..pray after me" was all it took to get them to heaven. They will be resurrected from Hell, and boy, are they mad! They will enact horrible things upon the earth and its inhabitants during the Tribulation.

 

[illinoisguy]

Except for the fact that it's written in Revelation, where pretty much everything else is symbolic. That's the nature of apocalyptic literature.

"It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins" (Rev. 14:4). So, only men?

The Book of Revelation is tough going for those who try to interpret all the obviously symbolic references in a literal manner. Those who attempt this end up with conclusions that are subjective and inconsistent. For instance, Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, in the "Left Behind" novels, have a character called Michael Shorosh who is a member of the 144,000, and is portrayed as having a wife and children. So, they don't take the part about being virgins literally.

Hal Lindsey speculated that the "locusts" of Revelation 9:3 were actually Cobra helicopters. That's not literal. A helicopter is not a locust - not even close to it.

At Revelation 6:13 we are told that "the stars of heaven fell unto the earth." If taken literally, this would bring all the action in the book of Revelation to an end right there, so dispensationalist interpreters say that the "stars" are actually just meteors. That's not literal.

What about the woman of Revelation 12:1, wearing the sun and standing on the moon? Anyone care to give us a literal interpretation of that?

Years ago, a dispensationalist prophecy buff showed me a picture of the Italian politician Guiliano Amato, and he told me, "This is the Antichrist." I responded, tongue in cheek, that he could not be the Antichrist because he has only one head, and Revelation 13:1 says the Beast will have 7 heads. He said, "That's not literal." Well, okay - a lot of the symbols in Revelation were never meant to be taken literally. Does anybody believe the Antichrist is going to literally arise out of the sea, and that he will have 7 heads, 10 horns, feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion?

 

[4everfsu]

Illegal immigrants...

 

[Ransom]

The Book of Revelation is tough going for those who try to interpret all the obviously symbolic references in a literal manner.

Yeah, there's a logical disconnect when someone reads Revelation, sees armoured locusts, falling stars, women wearing the sun, seven-headed beasts, to say nothing of demon frogs, plagues on horseback, seas of blood, and Jesus with a sword coming out of his mouth, all obviously symbolic imagery.

Then they see numbers like the 144,000 witnesses, or the 1000 years of the Millennium, and declare them to be literally true. That's what the Bible says, after all...

 

[illinoisguy]

If you see one of these critters in your neighborhood, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

What Is the Seven-Headed Wild Beast of Revelation Chapter 13?​

 

[Ekklesian]

If you see one of these critters in your neighborhood, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

What Is the Seven-Headed Wild Beast of Revelation Chapter 13?​

Clearly, the Beast is an antichrist power structure...a system, and not a single individual.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

Hate to burst your bubble but adherence to your brand of Calvinism is not a prerequisite for believing in God's sovereignty.

Very true. I have been in Church of Christ (1984-1986, IFB (1986-1999), Reformed Baptist (2000-2024) and they all believe in the sovereignty of God.

 

[Bob Jones VI]

Yeah, there's a logical disconnect when someone reads Revelation, sees armoured locusts, falling stars, women wearing the sun, seven-headed beasts, to say nothing of demon frogs, plagues on horseback, seas of blood, and Jesus with a sword coming out of his mouth, all obviously symbolic imagery.

Then they see numbers like the 144,000 witnesses, or the 1000 years of the Millennium, and declare them to be literally true. That's what the Bible says, after all...

The inconsistency of dispensationalism is all around me. I am in a post-graduate program, and several of the students are dispensationalists. It's my way or the highway, like AB Caines said "Circle the wagons."

 

[biscuit1953]

“as” and “like” used as adverbs and prepositions in Revelation

Rev_1:10 a great voice, as of a trumpet, (not actually a trumpet)

Rev_1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, (not actually wool)

Rev_1:15 feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. ("like and “as” is used for comparison)

Rev_1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: (John is describing what he saw in the vision; obviously symbolic) and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. (not actually the sun)

Rev_1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. (He wasn’t really dead)

These comparisons are found throughout the Book of Revelation.

Going to Chapter 7. John once again is simply describing what he saw. In 7:4 there is no “like” or “as” 144,000 but an actual number. Describing the twelve tribes, there is no “like” or “as” involved. In Revelation 13 John is simply describing the beasts he sees in his vision. The symbols describe something and we are told that the mark of the beast is the number of a “man” (13:18).

Rev 1:20 seven stars. “This verse beautifully illustrates the principle of literal interpretation: when symbols are used their meaning is explained. Thus the candlesticks symbolize literal churches, and the stars symbolize literal angels. If Christ meant some other interpretation such as “pastors” or “elders” of the churches rather than angels, He could easily have made this clear by using the appropriate word. “Elder,” for example, is used twelve other times in Revelation, so it would be used here if Christ meant the meaning to be “elder.” Nowhere else in the Bible are pastors called angels. (Henry Morris)

In Revelation 20 where it describes the reign of Christ upon the earth there is no mention of “like” or “as” a thousand years. In Rev 20:14 it doesn’t say “like” or “as” a lake of fire.

In Revelation 21 where it describes the beauties of heaven it doesn’t say the twelve gates were “as” or “like” pearls. There is no reason to not take it literally.

In Revelation 9 who ever said that Tim LaHaye or Hal Lindsey was infallible? John describes what he saw in his vision which was locusts coming out of the bottomless pit that obviously must be some kind of demonic beings that look like locusts because we know no natural locusts live in hell. These locusts' faces were "as" the faces of men and their hair was "like" the hair of women. Look up how the Jehovah Witnesses interpret this passage as well as the rest of the Book of Revelation!

When one starts looking at everything as being “symbolic” with no good reason for it then it becomes fantasy land.

 

[Ransom]

Going to Chapter 7. John once again is simply describing what he saw. In 7:4 there is no “like” or “as” 144,000 but an actual number. Describing the twelve tribes, there is no “like” or “as” involved.

Do you know the fundamental difference between a simile and a metaphor?

 

[biscuit1953]

Do you know the fundamental difference between a simile and a metaphor?

There are a lot of things I don't know but I know how to read plain English without making everything symbolic or metaphoric.

 

[Ransom]

There are a lot of things I don't know but I know how to read plain English without making everything symbolic or metaphoric.

In other words: no, you don't know the difference.

Which means your assertion that the twelve tribes or the number 144,000 are literal is made without evidence.

 

[Ekklesian]

If I may wax a bit Lewisonian, there are two equal and opposite errors one may fall into concerning numerology in the Bible. One is to dismiss the idea entirely, and the other is to be obsessed with it.

But no matter which side of the middle one falls on, the significance of the number twelve in the Scriptures and its multiples, cannot be denied.

I remember doing a study in the Tabernacle, Priesthood, and the Offerings some time back.

What stood out to me was how often a form of the number twelve appeared.

Twelve Patriarchs.

Twelve Tribes.

60 posts in the court.

48 boards for the tabernacle proper, resting in 96 sockets.

In Creation, 24 hours in a day. 12 months in a year, ( for the Jews too).

12 signs of the Zodiac.

12 Apostles.

12 gates into the Holy City.

24 Elders.

24 wings (4 beasts each with 6 wings)

A tree that bears 12 kinds of fruit.

144,000 who bear the mark of their God.

Can there be any doubt that the number 12 signifies the Elect?

 

[Ekklesian]

48 boards for the tabernacle proper, resting in 96 sockets.

Oh. The sockets were made with the silver paid in the Atonement Money.