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What is the Gospel?
- Thread starter FSSL
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If Jesus was your Lord, you'd listen to what he said about how to be saved.
And someone actually tried to argue faith was a work and others thumbed him up. You guys have never read the Bible: it says your initial moment of faith is not a work.
Now I leave you all to get hardened in your own deceit. I'm getting rewards in heaven for this, thank you guys for providing further evidence to the world on why sinners and pharisees (like yourselves) who refuse God's grace deserve to go to hell: they so blatantly reject truth, even when it stares them straight in the face.
God bless, readers. Commenters, your demons are showing. ✌
This guy reminds me of Ironman.......
This has to be a parody of some kind...
You know that's what I've been thinking more and more. I mean it starts with his name. UNDERGROUND (except your on Facebook and Youtube) CHURCH (except you claim to be neither a church or a para church org). Sounds like something straight out of Babylon Bee.
My experience with KJVOs... they don't affiliate with a church. They cannot find one that matches their baggage of false teachings.
Jesus is not their Lord and church is a distraction. (right, Steve Avery and Will Kinney?!)
Jesus is not their Lord and church is a distraction. (right, Steve Avery and Will Kinney?!)
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It's refreshing to see that the majority of posters believe Jesus is Lord! You wouldn't think this would be a controversial topic among Christians... but there still are small segments that can't handle a faith that produces good works.
Unbelief LOVES the idea that one can simply say they have a "change of mind" YET refuse to ACTUALLY change!
It is absurd to think that a person can experience a "change of mind" without it affecting the person's behavior. That is not change.
Further, it understates the meaning of "mind." Those that argue for the etymology of "metanoew" fail to recognize that NOUS, in the Greek, is far more broad than simply "mind." It is "the sum total of the whole mental and moral state of being." It is accompanied by the word "transformed" in Romans 12.2. (BDAG)
It is absurd to think that a person can experience a "change of mind" without it affecting the person's behavior. That is not change.
Further, it understates the meaning of "mind." Those that argue for the etymology of "metanoew" fail to recognize that NOUS, in the Greek, is far more broad than simply "mind." It is "the sum total of the whole mental and moral state of being." It is accompanied by the word "transformed" in Romans 12.2. (BDAG)
It's interesting to speak to real live Calvinists. Years ago soon after getting saved I attended a Bible study on Calvinism vs. Arminianism. The pastor always pointed to the Baptists as Calvinists and spoke about how they believed once you prayed for salvation you could live like the devil. From what I've seen the Baptists are more like half calvinists. Up until several months ago when I started posting on here (as my assignment was to monitor UGC) I assumed that was the traditional Calvinist position.
This “Baptist” is fully Calvinistic (soteriology-wise).
The nonLordship guys are a recent reaction (1980s) that looks more and more like Wesleyan theology to me.
The nonLordship guys are a recent reaction (1980s) that looks more and more like Wesleyan theology to me.
There are far more flavors of "baptist" than there are flavors of Ben and Jerry's ice cream..... I was raised a Freewill Baptist but saved in an IFB church. I don't find any value in the name anymore. Christ isn't divided. Baptist are a different story.
I've found Paul's words settle the matter.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
This battle is very real to all those in Christ Jesus. That battle didn't exist before I was saved. That is the real change that takes place. The message of God is no longer external to us. It is internal. It comes from within and battles this flesh that came from the ashes of destruction.
The reverse can be said of what Paul said in Roman's 7:21.
"I find a law, that when I would do evil, good is present with me."
I've never had that before I was saved and now that I am saved, I will never lose it. THE GLORY is ALL God's.
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Ruckmanites, especially their preachers, are the ones who believe that once saved, you can live like the devil and still go to heaven. This is a natural result of their hyper-dispensationalist antinomian beliefs and their teaching that repentance is "not for today." I have personally known Ruckmanite preachers who were dishonest, liars, slanderers, false accusers, who borrowed money and books from me and did not return them. They are control freaks who relentlessly bully and abuse their followers in order to get total control of them and their money. UGClown is just a typical sample of how all Ruckmanite preachers operate. He rails against "Lordship Salvation" and yet demands total submission to the lordship of his demon-possessed cult leader Rucky - is that not "Lordship Salvation" too? Only difference is, his lord is Rucky, not Christ.
Some people believe you can just throw a few words in the direction of heaven and "poof" you've magically arrived at immortality....
The "for with the heart" phrase found in Romans 10:10 is solely the judgement of God Himself. He knows the "why" of such confessions.
In John 6, Jesus left a large multitude of people that had been following Him. They had put forth an effort to follow Jesus, Jesus even performed a great miracle in feeding them. Yet, Jesus walked away......
When they came asking why he had left them, He told them exactly why.
Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
He then proceed to preach to them of how HE was the BREAD of LIFE. Of how HE was the TRUE MANNA from heaven......These same people who followed Jesus drew back......
The Calvinist looks at these words and misses the entire point of what Jesus said. They peck around at a few verses and never get to the real issue in John 6, The real reason this group turned back is because they never believed to begin with.
The WORK OF GOD in humanity is ..... Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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If some Calvinists believe in this form of easy-believism "(repeat this prayer after me and you will be eternally saved no matter how you live afterward)" then of course they are mistaken. I have personally seen and witnessed this false belief, and this mistaken policy of evangelistic outreach, among people who were non-Calvinist and anti-Calvinist. Maybe I am missing something, but I personally don't see the connection between Calvinism and the "one-two-three, pray with me" heresy. Seems to me that a consistent Calvinist would trust in God's sovereignty to bring His elect to true faith, without feeling the need to manipulate someone into praying a rote prayer so he could then pronounce that person to be eternally saved and secure, even if they live like the Devil afterwards. Usually Calvinists are accused of the opposite offense - lack of evangelistic zeal to get people to recite a rote prayer so that they can then be pronounced "saved and secure."
What Calvinists believe regarding Christ's Lordship:
From the Westminster Confession of Faith "To all those for whom Christ hath purchased redemption, He doth certainly and effectually apply and communicate the same,(p) making intercession for them,(q) and revealing unto them, in and by the Word, the mysteries of salvation,(r) effectually persuading them by His Spirit to believe and obey, and governing their hearts by His Word and Spirit;(s) overcoming all their enemies by His almighty power and wisdom, in such manner, and ways, as are most consonant to His wonderful and unsearchable dispensation.(t)"
From the Westminster Confession of Faith "To all those for whom Christ hath purchased redemption, He doth certainly and effectually apply and communicate the same,(p) making intercession for them,(q) and revealing unto them, in and by the Word, the mysteries of salvation,(r) effectually persuading them by His Spirit to believe and obey, and governing their hearts by His Word and Spirit;(s) overcoming all their enemies by His almighty power and wisdom, in such manner, and ways, as are most consonant to His wonderful and unsearchable dispensation.(t)"
The Calvinist argument would be.... "Why would a person call upon God without having been regenerated"?
Calvinist and non-Calvinist can and do make the same argument.
A very good reason to call upon God without having been regenerated? Often times it's the quickest way to get these crazy guys in ties off my front porch. One of the first times I ever went soul winning I was with a guy who was pressuring this lady to "pray the prayer" she resisted and claimed to be Catholic for awhile. She was too nice to just tell us to leave, so eventually she prayed the prayer. The entire time she had an irritated look on her face.
I thought LordShip Salvation was/is a late teaching. The Westminister Confession did NOT directly deal with the issue.
I've never seen a Calvinist push a person like this. Never. They make the same argument but do not operate the same way.
The Calvinist argument is that salvation is assured through regeneration and such actions taken result in an certain confession.
The terminology may be new but the idea itself is not.
Do you have a reference for your claim?