What did they do at HAC to make graduates worship Hyles?

pastorryanhayden

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I'm an IFB pastor.  I'm conservative about the KJV, music, dress, etc.  I didn't go to Hyles, but interacting with HAC alumni, I find the one common thread with all of them is that they worship the ground that Jack Hyles walked on.
  • I know pastors who will pray to the deceased Jack Hyles.
  • I know pastors who will not let anyone in their church read any books that don't come from the HAC bookstore.
  • I know pastors who will not let anyone preach for them unless they are HAC alumni.
  • I've heard pastors joke about Hyles being the fourth member of the Trinity.
  • I've known pastors to manipulate their preacher boys away from going to any Bible college but Hyles Anderson.
  • A friend of mine shook Dr. Hyles hand as a teenager and was promptly told by an employee they should never wash it.

For me, all of that pales to the fact that I have never personally met anyone who went to HAC (except for a few people who were obviously bitter about it) that didn't treat Dr. Hyles as if he was above any criticism.

Now, I am super grateful to Clarence Sexton, but I've never met a Crown grad who thought he was above criticism.  I've never met a graduate of any other institution that treated the leadership that way.  Yet almost all of the HAC people I've met treat Hyles that way.

So my question is, what was unique about the HAC experience that causes you guys to treat Hyles that way? 
 
Are you attacking Dr. Hyles!?!?!  How DARE you!!!!


;D
 
pastorryanhayden said:
I'm an IFB pastor.  I'm conservative about the KJV, music, dress, etc.  I didn't go to Hyles, but interacting with HAC alumni, I find the one common thread with all of them is that they worship the ground that Jack Hyles walked on.
  • I know pastors who will pray to the deceased Jack Hyles.
  • I know pastors who will not let anyone in their church read any books that don't come from the HAC bookstore.
  • I know pastors who will not let anyone preach for them unless they are HAC alumni.
  • I've heard pastors joke about Hyles being the fourth member of the Trinity.
  • I've known pastors to manipulate their preacher boys away from going to any Bible college but Hyles Anderson.
  • A friend of mine shook Dr. Hyles hand as a teenager and was promptly told by an employee they should never wash it.

For me, all of that pales to the fact that I have never personally met anyone who went to HAC (except for a few people who were obviously bitter about it) that didn't treat Dr. Hyles as if he was above any criticism.

Now, I am super grateful to Clarence Sexton, but I've never met a Crown grad who thought he was above criticism.  I've never met a graduate of any other institution that treated the leadership that way.  Yet almost all of the HAC people I've met treat Hyles that way.

So my question is, what was unique about the HAC experience that causes you guys to treat Hyles that way?

Quite simple. Having grown up in Hammond from second grade through HAC graduation, I can say this from experience:

Hyles himself cultivated that environment. The minions are just carrying on the tradition they were taught. Granted, Hyles might not have directly taught all those points but he did nothing to slow down the premise. For example, when I was in college, the school cancelled classes one day and sent shuttle buses to the cemetary where Hyles' mother was buried so students could pray over her grave. Now we weren't told to pray TO Coystal Hyles but rather to pray over her site. Stuff like this got blown out or proportion because students try to "outdo" others for the sake of pride.
 
Pastorryan everyone that went to the college did not worship brother hyles....we did visit a church in nc and the pastor had a pair of shoes  that were in a showcase. I thought that was strange....I can't speak for others but we were left with so many unanswered questions....
 
For me, it was his preaching. "Fantastic" is too small a word to describe it. I wanted to serve God and get closer to God, and Jack's preaching did both.
 
Ever met Clarence Sexton?  He believes he is above criticism - and you better sing his praises to begin the conversation or there won't be one (my personal experience).

I would assume you have met a small sampling of HAC alumni.  This forum has many HACkers who happily joke about the flaws of the system, but are still loyal to the principles.  We recognize that mistakes were made during his life, but also recognize the accomplishments and help he was to so many.

As far as your list:
  • Praying to the deceased - c'mon, really?  Many people will visit a grave side and talk as if to their loved one.  It is a common practice.  The Hyles haters vehemently criticized JH for talking to the picture of his deceased mother in the waiting room.  It is not praying, it is simply a coping mechanism that many people find therapeutic.  Have you ever had a hard day at the church, looked at a picture of your wife and whispered something like: "It would be so nice to just be with you right now."  You aren't praying to her, just speaking out loud.
  • Only books from HAC - pretty common.  Others include perversions of Scripture, don't you know.  This group really feels the only correct answers in life are found through HAC and their writers.  They use it as a filter to screen out writers who have bad doctrine.  It is a lazy approach which does not require them to determine if a book is helpful or if it has bad doctrine.
  • Only HACkers preaching - I would not want anyone preaching in my church with whom I was not familiar.  If someone is an alumni from your school, you pretty well know what they believe.  Part of the isolationism that is the result of quadrary separation.  Again, I think you have a small sampling of HAC alumni.
  • Fourth member... - Just as you stated, it is a joke.  Maybe a poor joke, but a joke.  Ever told a joke about someone meeting Peter at the gates of heaven?  All of those have bad doctrine also.  Relax.  It is a joke.
  • Only go to HAC - For a long time, there were only a few other schools, and they had problems also.  Today, there are many more available and these are recommended by HAC alumni.  Most HAC alumni today will tell their teens that they should go to at least one year of Bible college and then offer 3 or 4 for them to choose from.  Some people still think their alma mater is the best, which really isn't all that odd.  Most alumni from secular colleges will suggest only their alma mater to their children.
  • Don't wash the hand - Again, it is a joke.  duh.  Ever get an autograph and someone tell you how lucky you are?  I really don't think that constitutes worship.

Another thought to consider: 
When an attack takes place, two things happen.  One: Some people will flee from the one attacked.  Two: Some people defend the one attacked.  For those who attended HAC during "The Battle," they became a close-knit group of people, defending their leader, institution, principles, practices and even doctrine from an outside group that could not easily be identified.  They circled the wagons and began to shoot at anything that remotely resembled an enemy.  Sometimes, they would shoot at innocents just passing by and sometimes they would shoot into the wind.  What happens is that they are in a small group that are being attacked and they therefore only welcome others that were in their group and had a similar experience. 
One day, in your ministry, you and your church will come under attack.  When it does, some will leave your church and the others will become intensely loyal.  You will have to actually fight your own members who are supporting you to not defend you, their church or themselves.  Otherwise, the exact same blind loyalty will become common to you as it was given to JH and the leadership of HAC, FBCH.
Bro. Hyles did not choose to fight against this rallying, but rather appreciated and even relished it.  Once he realized it had gotten out of control (and he did realize it - he asked people to stop wearing the 100% buttons), it was to late - the system was corrupted.
This is actually a fairly common happening.
[/list]
 
The thing about people who need someone to worship is that they are blind to the fact they worship a person. They believe with all of their (sadly limited) ability to think that they are worshiping God, because Brother Hyles is (was) God's man.
 
Binacca,
The hagiography isn't helping Hyles' legacy, it just throws into question any legitimate good thing anybody says about Hyles. 
Those things may make sense to insiders, but to outsiders the are strange and cultish.  I agree with your assessment of Sexton and its probably true of most "big name" preachers but the HAC crowd seems to take it to new levels. 
 
pastorryanhayden said:
Binacca,
The hagiography isn't helping Hyles' legacy, it just throws into question any legitimate good thing anybody says about Hyles. 
Those things may make sense to insiders, but to outsiders the are strange and cultish.  I agree with your assessment of Sexton and its probably true of most "big name" preachers but the HAC crowd seems to take it to new levels.

Hagiography?  Was I saint-i-fying Bro. Hyles?  Read the post again.  I pointed out even in this post that there are some flaws.  I answered for you why some people act the way they do.  You asked a question, I answered.  BTW, don't assume HACkers are the only ones to be proud, arrogant, empire-builders.  It exists in the Sword crowd, the West Coast crowd, the PCC crowd, the BJU crowd, the new evangelicals, the SBC and just about every where you look.  In fact, empire-building is such a common sin that Russell Moore (Pres of Southern Seminary) spent an entire chapter talking about that sin in his book "Tempted and Tried."  I think you approach the subject of Bro. Hyles with a prejudice that looks for issues of contention (like praying to the deceased).
 
I wasn't accusing you of saint-ifying, I was talking about hackers in general.
Again, I agree with you about empire builders away from HAC, it just seems like hackers take it to another level. 
 
  • Binaca Chugger said:
    Ever met Clarence Sexton?  He believes he is above criticism - and you better sing his praises to begin the conversation or there won't be one (my personal experience).

    I would assume you have met a small sampling of HAC alumni.  This forum has many HACkers who happily joke about the flaws of the system, but are still loyal to the principles.  We recognize that mistakes were made during his life, but also recognize the accomplishments and help he was to so many.

    As far as your list:
    • Praying to the deceased - c'mon, really?  Many people will visit a grave side and talk as if to their loved one.  It is a common practice.  The Hyles haters vehemently criticized JH for talking to the picture of his deceased mother in the waiting room.  It is not praying, it is simply a coping mechanism that many people find therapeutic.  Have you ever had a hard day at the church, looked at a picture of your wife and whispered something like: "It would be so nice to just be with you right now."  You aren't praying to her, just speaking out loud.
    • Only books from HAC - pretty common.  Others include perversions of Scripture, don't you know.  This group really feels the only correct answers in life are found through HAC and their writers.  They use it as a filter to screen out writers who have bad doctrine.  It is a lazy approach which does not require them to determine if a book is helpful or if it has bad doctrine.
    • Only HACkers preaching - I would not want anyone preaching in my church with whom I was not familiar.  If someone is an alumni from your school, you pretty well know what they believe.  Part of the isolationism that is the result of quadrary separation.  Again, I think you have a small sampling of HAC alumni.
    • Fourth member... - Just as you stated, it is a joke.  Maybe a poor joke, but a joke.  Ever told a joke about someone meeting Peter at the gates of heaven?  All of those have bad doctrine also.  Relax.  It is a joke.
    • Only go to HAC - For a long time, there were only a few other schools, and they had problems also.  Today, there are many more available and these are recommended by HAC alumni.  Most HAC alumni today will tell their teens that they should go to at least one year of Bible college and then offer 3 or 4 for them to choose from.  Some people still think their alma mater is the best, which really isn't all that odd.  Most alumni from secular colleges will suggest only their alma mater to their children.
    • Don't wash the hand - Again, it is a joke.  duh.  Ever get an autograph and someone tell you how lucky you are?  I really don't think that constitutes worship.

    Another thought to consider: 
    When an attack takes place, two things happen.  One: Some people will flee from the one attacked.  Two: Some people defend the one attacked.  For those who attended HAC during "The Battle," they became a close-knit group of people, defending their leader, institution, principles, practices and even doctrine from an outside group that could not easily be identified.  They circled the wagons and began to shoot at anything that remotely resembled an enemy.  Sometimes, they would shoot at innocents just passing by and sometimes they would shoot into the wind.  What happens is that they are in a small group that are being attacked and they therefore only welcome others that were in their group and had a similar experience. 
    One day, in your ministry, you and your church will come under attack.  When it does, some will leave your church and the others will become intensely loyal.  You will have to actually fight your own members who are supporting you to not defend you, their church or themselves.  Otherwise, the exact same blind loyalty will become common to you as it was given to JH and the leadership of HAC, FBCH.
    Bro. Hyles did not choose to fight against this rallying, but rather appreciated and even relished it.  Once he realized it had gotten out of control (and he did realize it - he asked people to stop wearing the 100% buttons), it was to late - the system was corrupted.
    This is actually a fairly common happening.

99% of what he said.
 
RAIDER said:
99% of what he said.

One more percent and we can get you a hat!

hyles_baptist_church_the_church_with_a_heart_embroidered_hat-p233252908643243569bv4ug_216.jpg
 
In response to the OP -  Every college has idiots that walk their halls.  HAC was no different.  Perhaps the idiot average was a bit higher than the average college.  BTW, we called these idiots "Hackers". 

Unfortunately, your HAC sampling has found a few of these idiots.  The wide majority of HAC grads do not fit your description.  The wide majority of posters on the HAC FFF do not fit your description.

As Smellin Coffee posted, many times something that was innocent ended up being taken to an extreme by a Hacker.  Hey, there was even a guy that started a church and called it Hyles Baptist Church.  True story!

Some staff members would encourage college guys to street preach.  An idiot (aka Hacker) went to the corner of Routes 30 and 41 (which is a very busy intersection with only drive-by traffic) and would street preach.  Now, this was only one guy, but someone could see him and say, "Those HAC students, why do they go to an intersection where there is only drive-by traffic and street preach?"  The painting is being done with too broad of a brush.  I believe this is what you are doing.

I am a Boston Celtic fan.  My favorite all-time player is Larry Bird.  I had a Larry Bird shirt.  I have a Wheaties box with Larry on the cover.  I would drive many miles to see him, and I would stand in line for hours to get his autograph.  I will argue with you when he is compared to other players.  Do I worship Larry Bird?  Absolutely not.  Do I admire what Larry Bird did in his sport.  Absolutely!

Dr. Hyles was a bigger than life figure in the IFB movement.  Under his leadership FBCH became the world's largest SS.  He started HAC and it grew and produced wonderful Godly Christian workers for many years.  He was probably one of the most sought after preachers in America.  He authored many books which were very popular among IFB.  As Vince mentioned, his preaching style was nothing short of fantastic.  There are many more things I could add to the list.  Did most HAC grads worship Jack Hyles?  Absolutely not.  Did most HAC grads admire what Jack Hyles did?  Absolutely!

Add to this the fact of the great influence Jack Hyles had on the lives of many grads.  Some of them were saved because of his preaching.  Some of them were called into full time Christian service because of his preaching.  Some of them had family members whose lives were changed because of his preaching.  Some of them (me included) developed life-long habits and a closer walk with the Lord because of his preaching.

Something else that many people fail to realize is that Jack Hyles was a friend of preachers.  He taught us to respect and admire preachers.  He treated other preachers like kings.  When a visiting preacher came to HAC we were taught to stand and applaud when they walked onto the platform.

Now, with all that said let me point out the fact that some Hackers take these things and go to the stupid level.  They begin to do some of the things on your list.  They take something innocent and turn it into stupidity.

Looking back, I think there was too much "man-worship" that was allowed to take place.  I understand what Dr. Hyles was doing.  He was trying to make Christian leaders the heros instead of athletes and the Hollywood crowd.  In doing so things reached a level that could have been avoided.  The same thing could have been accomplished without allowing things to go to the extreme.  I don't think Dr. Hyles really knew how many Hackers were out there.  :)
 
Raider,
Thanks for the reply. I can appreciate how people with your experience would feel about Jack Hyles.  I was called to preach and trained under the ministry of Clarence Sexton.  I don't agree with everything he does or has done, but I do her defensive when people attack him unfairly. 
As a young fundamentalist, if I could change three things about our movement they would be 1) a lack of careful attention to the Bible, 2) preacher-worship and 3) factionalism.  based on institutions.  Hyles was not the first or only IFB leader guilty of those three things, but he was probably the most influential.
BTW I too am a celtics/bird fan and probably have the same Wheaties box.
 
Raider I agree to some of what you say. But I have to disagree that Hyles was a bigger than life in the IFB movement. Maybe in his own eyes. But there are more IFB churches that had no clue who Hyles was. He was maybe bigger than life in IFB churches were their Pastor was influenced by Hyles.
 
pastorryanhayden said:
Raider,
Thanks for the reply. I can appreciate how people with your experience would feel about Jack Hyles.  I was called to preach and trained under the ministry of Clarence Sexton.  I don't agree with everything he does or has done, but I do her defensive when people attack him unfairly. 
As a young fundamentalist, if I could change three things about our movement they would be 1) a lack of careful attention to the Bible, 2) preacher-worship and 3) factionalism.  based on institutions.  Hyles was not the first or only IFB leader guilty of those three things, but he was probably the most influential.
BTW I too am a celtics/bird fan and probably have the same Wheaties box.

Your three points are excellent!  Speaking of three pointers....Go Larry!!!
 
kaba said:
Raider I agree to some of what you say. But I have to disagree that Hyles was a bigger than life in the IFB movement. Maybe in his own eyes. But there are more IFB churches that had no clue who Hyles was. He was maybe bigger than life in IFB churches were their Pastor was influenced by Hyles.

I have to disagree with you.  :)  I'm sure there were a few IFB churches who never heard of Jack Hyles, but they would have been very few.  They would have had to have their head in the sand.  EVERY IFB church within many miles of where I lived knew of FBCH and Jack Hyles.  They may not have liked him, but believe me, they knew who he was.  Now, there were Baptist churches that were not independent that did not know of him.
 
[quote author=RAIDER]I have to disagree with you.  :)  I'm sure there were a few IFB churches who never heard of Jack Hyles, but they would have been very few....Now, there were Baptist churches that were not independent that did not know of him.[/quote]

hehe
 
I too think most IFB churches knew who Bro. Hyles was in the 70s and 80s.  He was the star player in the SOTL crowd widely promoted by Dr. Rice.  I don't think he was as well known in his latter years than in his heyday.
 
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