Update on First Baptist Church of Hammond

[Jrock]

Can someone tell me how many church members are now attending at Hammond? Also, how many students at Hyles Anderson College?

 

[bgwilkinson]

On the English side we have about 3,500 in attendance in the main auditorium during the summer.

On the Spanish side it is about 1,500 in attendance in the old auditorium.

We are in the process of giving birth to  a new two location Spanish church in Chicago. About half of the current attendees will be attending the new church.

Here is a pic of their new building.

At HAC there are very few people there as it is summer break. We will know more in the fall.

There were somewhere around 450 at the end of the Spring semester.

 

[Jrock]

A few years ago, it was said they were about 15,000 church members. Was that from combining the English and Spanish side?

 

[bgwilkinson]

Attendance figures in large churches are the totals of all the services on a weekend, not unique persons that attended. This does not mean that all members attend every service. Many do not.

 

[BALAAM]

Once again: There is a little more to the story about the Spanish church splitting off. It is not just the neat little divide to multiply that you will hear from the fbc folks.

Remember: You heard it here on the FFF!!!

 

[Jrock]

I'm lost, do you mean a doctrinal split?

 

[BALAAM]

I'm lost, do you mean a doctrinal split?

No, not that I am aware of. It just seems to be a slow but steady filtering away from fbch for various reasons. But, then again, from all I read it seems to be true of most of ifb'dom.  They will all claim any meeting or conference to be a huge success with many decisions made and altars full.  Then many of the same people will write articles about how they can't get a Sunday or Wednesday night crowd. How the colleges are emptying etc.

 

[bgwilkinson]

A few years ago, it was said they were about 15,000 church members. Was that from combining the English and Spanish side?

A couple pastors ago everyone that was baptized was also voted in as a member.

If we did not hear from another church asking to transfer their membership they could remain a member for all time.

I believe we did remove them if we found out they had died.

They may have only come one time in their lives, but we counted them as members.

This really helped the numbers for pride and bragging rights when we claimed over 100,000 members using creative counting.

When all we had was that old auditorium that only seated about 4,000 it looked like a lot more people than were really in attendance. There was no place in the building where you could see all the people there as so many were hidden.

If the total was actually 15,000 members now, you would not have anywhere near that number attending on a weekend.

 

[Jrock]

With 450 students at HAC, someone has predicted that they will close down within 5 years. I also wonder if their church building has been paid off.

 

[bgwilkinson]

With 450 students at HAC, someone has predicted that they will close down within 5 years. I also wonder if their church building has been paid off.

Not likely HAC would close over monetary issues as there is no long term debt that they are carrying.

When the number of students declines you simply adjust the workers accordingly.

This is what has been going on for several years, so they are good at it.

 

[Jrock]

But don't they owe millions of dollars on their new church building?

 

[bgwilkinson]

But don't they owe millions of dollars on their new church building?

Yes there is long term debt of about 13 mil on the auditorium, but the college is a separate not for profit corp and debt free.

 

[IFB X-Files]

but the college is a separate not for profit corp and debt free.

How much is the campus worth if they were to sell it?  Ballpark figure is fine.

 

[bgwilkinson]

but the college is a separate not for profit corp and debt free.

How much is the campus worth if they were to sell it?  Ballpark figure is fine.

Because the location of the college property is in the heart of Schererville it is worth more than all the buildings in Hammond put together. Buildings in Hammond are not very sale-able. It is not a desirable place to do anything.

Because most of the college buildings are single use buildings and the stick built ones are poorly constructed and falling apart you would have to demo them to be able to use the property for any thing else.

So to develop it into anything useful would require the demo-ing of most of the existing buildings, you would really have only raw land to build houses. So maybe you could get 25 mil if done right and that might be wishful thinking.

 

[IFB X-Files]

So to develop it into anything useful would require the demo-ing of most of the existing buildings, you would really have only raw land to build houses. So maybe you could get 25 mil if done right and that might be wishful thinking.

So if the church continues to decline, a last resort could be to sell the college property to pay off the church debt.  Personally, I don't see how the church can maintain numbers without a dynamic, aggressive pastor.

 

[bgwilkinson]

So to develop it into anything useful would require the demo-ing of most of the existing buildings, you would really have only raw land to build houses. So maybe you could get 25 mil if done right and that might be wishful thinking.

So if the church continues to decline, a last resort could be to sell the college property to pay off the church debt.  Personally, I don't see how the church can maintain numbers without a dynamic, aggressive pastor.

We have a wonderful Jesus.

We don't need a big name, big mouthed, big bottomed, full of himself aggressive pastor.

God isn't dead, just the big-name aggressive preachers. With God all things are possible.

We don't need a Moses to tell us what God says, we just need God Himself, who speaks directly to each believer, no middle-man.

We are members of the body of Christ not some pastor's people, his own personal fiefdom.

I know there are those that are hoping FBCH will go out of business, but that is not what is happening.


The story is told by the bottom line, the money.

The offerings have recovered nicely from what they were in 2011 and 2012. They have been holding steady and slowly increasing over 2013 and 2014. We are now in the best financial shape we have been in since the early 2000s.

We support the same missionaries in 2015 that we supported in 2010. Mission giving has been strong.

No, we no longer have a big sugar, er. egg daddy. We have a Heavenly Father, God is taking care of his own. I know, hard to believe.

We have shed hundreds of unnecessary and fabulously expensive employees.

The bills are being paid. We have money in the bank. Over half a million just sitting there.


The other numbers will take care of themselves.

God keeps the records on those that are saved and added to the body of Christ. He knows we don't.

Even when we think we do, we don't.

We really don't need loud-mouthed blow-hard proud, full of them selves aggressive Man-O-God leaders.

They have all turned out to be fakes with fading legacies. Schaap I believe is the final nail in the coffin of that legacy.

Smith in the 70s was the first nail when we did not realize it. They both did the same thing. Transport underage persons across state lines for immoral purposes.

God does not need big name pastors to usurp his glory, worship and attention. He only needs humble servants who will obey His Word.

IMHO Of course.

 

[IFB X-Files]

So to develop it into anything useful would require the demo-ing of most of the existing buildings, you would really have only raw land to build houses. So maybe you could get 25 mil if done right and that might be wishful thinking.

So if the church continues to decline, a last resort could be to sell the college property to pay off the church debt.  Personally, I don't see how the church can maintain numbers without a dynamic, aggressive pastor.

We don't need a big name, big mouthed, big bottomed, full of himself aggressive pastor.

LOL!  That's what I wanted to say but you said it better.  Of course everything you're saying is true, I just don't see the draw to go to downtown Hammond for church when there are many other good alternatives closer to where people live.

 

[Jrock]

This may be off topic, but how do Hyles numbers compare to those of Pensacola Christian College? Are they also in decline?

 

[IFB X-Files]

This may be off topic, but how do Hyles numbers compare to those of Pensacola Christian College? Are they also in decline?

PCC could be down, but that's really a apples-to-oranges question.  HAC is a Baptist school  and PCC is non-denominational.

 

[Jrock]

As far as I know all PCC graduates are Fundamentalist Baptists.