It's looking like Trump's truly America first. We need to pray for his protection.
Trump Posts Clip Critical of Netanyahu
- Thread starter Ekklesian
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It's not just Trump that has a problem with Netanyahu. I cannot post the bad stuff that President Biden has said about Bibi Netanyahu - it's too obscene. Netanyahu is on trial in his own country for corruption. Let us pray that our new leaders will not allow Netanyahu to drag us into any more wars in the Middle East on his behalf.
We should support the Jewish people against threats of persecution, but this does not necessarily mandate hostility to, or war with, Iran. Jewish people are far from united in supporting war with Iran. Polls of American Jews after the nuclear deal with Iran was announced in 2015 showed significant Jewish support for that deal.
Israel Project poll showed 44% supporting the deal, 47% opposed.
J Street poll showed 60% support, 40% opposed.
Los Angeles Jewish Journal poll showed 48% support, 38% opposed. The same poll showed that 53% of Jews favored Congressional approval of the deal. [Source, Chicago Jewish Star, August 21, 2015. Admittedly, this newspaper opposed the deal]. Netanyahu's enthusiasm for war with Iran does not reflect the convictions of many Jews, in America or in Israel.
The Chicago Jewish News, Skokie, Illinois commented on the Iran nuclear deal - "Indeed, Israel and Jews are safer today than they were before the Iran deal was finalized. Yes, that's the truth, though I know the vast majority of Jews don't believe that. . . . But let's stick with our leader, one Bibi Yahoo. . . . The fact is that Bibi is irrational when it comes to Iran." (July 17, 2015)
We should support the Jewish people against threats of persecution, but this does not necessarily mandate hostility to, or war with, Iran. Jewish people are far from united in supporting war with Iran. Polls of American Jews after the nuclear deal with Iran was announced in 2015 showed significant Jewish support for that deal.
Israel Project poll showed 44% supporting the deal, 47% opposed.
J Street poll showed 60% support, 40% opposed.
Los Angeles Jewish Journal poll showed 48% support, 38% opposed. The same poll showed that 53% of Jews favored Congressional approval of the deal. [Source, Chicago Jewish Star, August 21, 2015. Admittedly, this newspaper opposed the deal]. Netanyahu's enthusiasm for war with Iran does not reflect the convictions of many Jews, in America or in Israel.
The Chicago Jewish News, Skokie, Illinois commented on the Iran nuclear deal - "Indeed, Israel and Jews are safer today than they were before the Iran deal was finalized. Yes, that's the truth, though I know the vast majority of Jews don't believe that. . . . But let's stick with our leader, one Bibi Yahoo. . . . The fact is that Bibi is irrational when it comes to Iran." (July 17, 2015)
My point exactly. We don't need to be fighting Israel's wars.
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Not everyone, even in Israel, supports Netanyahu's warmongering. Many prominent Israeli officials have opposed Netanyahu's push to start war with Iran:
Bombing Iran is "the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Anyone attacking Iran needs to understand that it could start a regional war which will include missile fire from Iran and Hezbollah in Lebanon." - Former Mossad director Meir Dagan
"They [the Netanyahu administration] talk too much, they talk too loud. They are creating an atmosphere and a momentum that may go out of their control. There is no reason at this time . . . to initiate an Israeli military strike." - Former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.
web.archive.org
"Iranian leadership is composed of very rational people who will not decide to build nuclear weapons." - General Benny Gantz, Israeli Army Chief of Staff.
"I don't believe in a leadership that makes decisions based on messianic feelings. . . . one of the results of an Israeli attack on Iran could be a dramatic acceleration of the Iranian nuclear program." - Yuval Diskin, former chief of Shin Bet, Israel's national security agency.
stljewishlight.org
"Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said a few months ago in a series of closed discussions that in her opinion that Iranian nuclear weapons do not pose an existential threat to Israel. . . . Last week, former Mossad Ephraim Halevy said similar things about Iran."
Ha'aretz, October 5, 2007
"Israel's prime minister and defense minister seem anxious to go to war, and the sooner the better, a determination not shared by most of their own generals and spy-masters, past and present, a majority of the public, the current (and at least one former) president, and even a sizeable portion of the inner cabinet.." Douglas Bloomfield, Chicago Jewish Star, September 14, 2012.
My comment - it is my perception that the big push for America to get into a pre-emptive war with Iran comes not so much from Israeli leaders or the Jewish general public in Israel or America. Rather, it comes from the extremist Christian Zionists in America, followers of the charismatic megachurch preacher John Hagee and his "Christians United For Israel" organization, who are lobbying for war with Iran in order to fulfill their speculative prophetic scenarios about the "Armageddon Theology."
Bombing Iran is "the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Anyone attacking Iran needs to understand that it could start a regional war which will include missile fire from Iran and Hezbollah in Lebanon." - Former Mossad director Meir Dagan
"They [the Netanyahu administration] talk too much, they talk too loud. They are creating an atmosphere and a momentum that may go out of their control. There is no reason at this time . . . to initiate an Israeli military strike." - Former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.
Olmert opposes strike on Iranian nuclear program
Former prime minister says it is ‘definitely not’ time for military action against Tehran
web.archive.org
"Iranian leadership is composed of very rational people who will not decide to build nuclear weapons." - General Benny Gantz, Israeli Army Chief of Staff.
"I don't believe in a leadership that makes decisions based on messianic feelings. . . . one of the results of an Israeli attack on Iran could be a dramatic acceleration of the Iranian nuclear program." - Yuval Diskin, former chief of Shin Bet, Israel's national security agency.
Former Shin Bet chief says he has ‘no faith’ in Israel’s leaders - St. Louis Jewish Light
April 29, 2012 JERUSALEM (JTA) — Israeli leaders’ judgment has been clouded by “messianic feelings” and they cannot be trusted to decide to launch a military strike on Iran, Israel’s former security chief said. Yuval Diskin, the former head of Israel’s Shin Bet security agency, said in a speech...
stljewishlight.org
"Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said a few months ago in a series of closed discussions that in her opinion that Iranian nuclear weapons do not pose an existential threat to Israel. . . . Last week, former Mossad Ephraim Halevy said similar things about Iran."
Ha'aretz, October 5, 2007
"Israel's prime minister and defense minister seem anxious to go to war, and the sooner the better, a determination not shared by most of their own generals and spy-masters, past and present, a majority of the public, the current (and at least one former) president, and even a sizeable portion of the inner cabinet.." Douglas Bloomfield, Chicago Jewish Star, September 14, 2012.
My comment - it is my perception that the big push for America to get into a pre-emptive war with Iran comes not so much from Israeli leaders or the Jewish general public in Israel or America. Rather, it comes from the extremist Christian Zionists in America, followers of the charismatic megachurch preacher John Hagee and his "Christians United For Israel" organization, who are lobbying for war with Iran in order to fulfill their speculative prophetic scenarios about the "Armageddon Theology."
I wouldn't say the extremists alone could build such a coalition. There is a defacto Zionism in Evangelicals, born of the proliferation of the Scofield Bible and its corruption of the gospel in the last century or so. A majority of Americans simply believe it without really thinking. They soaked it up by osmosis, as it were.
So, not all Zionists are happy with Netanyahu. It seems to me that it's just a disagreement on how expansive Zionism should be. If you ask @biscuit1953, the land of Israel should extend to the Nile, but that's not really the full extent. According to biscuit, the Jews should rule the world, and Jesus is coming back, not for His bride, but to set the Jews up to do just that.
Those unhappy with Netanyahu seem to me to be content with their degree of Zionism, and yet there's Benny, still in power, still pursuing his doctrine of expansion practically unimpeded.
The root of the problem is any degree of Zionism itself.
I know Trump, just like many others, has never really known the world without Israel, and he has been very friendly to them. But I was glad to see that he seems to draw the line at sending Americans to die for them.