Trump inserts foot again…Medal of Freedom

aleshanee said:
after i looked at the links you provided i watched the entire speech.... and then tried to find as many other news reports about it as i could... and the only reports i could find about it were all from the left wing sources in bed with the democrats...and every one of them either twisted what he said... rephrased the speech on their own words to add or delete words thus changing what trump actually said... or both...... .not a single news source i would consider conservative or even neutral had anything to say about it.... .. apparently they didn;t think it was newsworthy.....

my family is filled with people who are veterans who served in various branches of the military... plus some who are active duty right now... (in both cases some of them high ranking officers)... and others who were military contractors.. and one who still is.... . and the ones i talked to about this latest "gaff" from trump said it was either no big deal or being blown way out of proportion by a left wing news media that hates trump anyway... ...they didn;t think it was newsworthy either..... and only one of them had even heard about it before i mentioned it.... ....in truth i had not heard about it either before i saw your thread on it here.... ... so... ..apparently it;s only an issue for those looking for something about trump to make an issue of.... .

but as far as mccain goes... i know plenty of veterans outside my family who think even less of john mccain than trump did..... and they know people who served with mccain on the uss forestal when a fire caused by an accidental rocket launch from mccains a4 skyhawk killed over 130 crewmen of the ship..... . they said had it not been for mccains father being an admiral he would have been court-martialed over that incident and most likely spent time in an american military prison rather than ending up a pow in north vietnam....... ..i don;t understand the mechanics or technical details of it - but they said it had to do with him trying to "hot start" his jet aircraft .. which was a very risky and prohibited thing to do - rather than waiting for the ships crews to start his aircraft using the proper machinery and procedures... .... they said they believe that attempt to do a "hot start" is what caused a rocket to launch from his aircraft and streak across the deck of the ship striking other planes on board..... ....

mccain vigorously denied trying to do the hot start method on his jet... and at the end of the investgation anything and everything was blamed for that accident other than mccain himself... .... right after that happened mccain volunteered for duty on board the uss oriskany and was shot down 4 months later... sent to the infamous hanoi hilton pow prison... where other prisoners of war would later claim mccain "sang like a canary" <-- their own words... to avoid being tortured by his captors for information.....

so trump is far from being the first or only person to question john mccains status as a "hero".... and in fact his criticism of mccain is not even the most harsh criticism out there... . it;s mild compared to what others said about him.......

but all that are things i heard from other people and then read about online..... my own personal observations and opinions about mccain - (which i posted about and got slammed for on the forums 16 years ago as they happened) - were that i believed mccains selection of sarah palin as running mate was mccains way of purposefully throwing the 2008 election to obama without coming right out and saying he didn;t really want to be president... no republican - not even mccain - wanted to own or try to fix the mess "dubya" left behind.... ...i know a lot of people on the fff loved palin and thought she was awesome..... but before he died mccain himself even said the selection of palin was a mistake that he believed caused him to lose that election.....

so....... i guess i am saying all that to say that using trumps insult of mccain - and the fact mccain was a veteran - as an example of why we would all share your dim view of donald trump doesn;t have much effect on me... .i have heard far worse about mccain from others who are veterans themselves....
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I may have missed it because I have trouble reading between all the ......'s.

Clearly, you're not a McCain fan, nor are the veterans you know. What about the five years he was imprisoned and sometimes tortured in Vietnam? I admired the man.

When Trump makes remarks that have to be explained by several people on this forum, it makes me wonder if Trump's comments will push more people toward our first female president.

By the way, I'm an independent. I don't endorse either candidate.

P.S. My dad was in the Navy and a staunch Democrat.
 
aleshanee said:
and they know people who served with mccain on the uss forestal when a fire caused by an accidental rocket launch from mccains a4 skyhawk killed over 130 crewmen of the ship....
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This simply isn't factual. It was McCain's A-4, or the one next to his, that was struck by the missile, which was accidentally launched from the other side of the flight deck.

The usual way the canard is stated is that McCain did a "wet start" on his plane--dumping fuel into the engine to shake up the pilot behind him with a big flame. This supposedly triggered the Zuni rocket that caused the disaster.

The problem is that, as photos of the fire show, the planes were parked along the edge of the flight deck with the engines facing outboard. There was no plane behind McCain's--only ocean.

800px-USS_Forrestal_A-4_Skyhawk_burning.png


McCain had a reputation as a hot-dog pilot: he had crashed twice and flown into power lines before this. But you can't blame a pilot for his stationary plane being struck by a missile.

The Forrestal fire was caused by a combination of factors: a random electrical glitch, untrained flight crew, old and unstable ordnance stored around the flight deck, and an uncoordinated fire-response team. McCain, however, was a victim, not a perpetrator.
 
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ALAYMAN said:
“It’s (medal of freedom vs medal of honor) actually much better, because everyone gets the Congressional Medal of Honor, that’s soldiers, they’re either in very bad shape because they’ve been hit so many times by bullets, or they’re dead,”

Somebody please explain to me what Trump meant by this?
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He’s not an intellectual man he’s not well read and it’s very sad that someone like this may become president again.
 
Ransom said:
This simply isn't factual. It was McCain's A-4, or the one next to his, that was struck by the missile, which was accidentally launched from the other side of the flight deck.

The usual way the canard is stated is that McCain did a "wet start" on his plane--dumping fuel into the engine to shake up the pilot behind him with a big flame. This supposedly triggered the Zuni rocket that caused the disaster.

The problem is that, as photos of the fire show, the planes were parked along the edge of the flight deck with the engines facing outboard. There was no plane behind McCain's--only ocean.

800px-USS_Forrestal_A-4_Skyhawk_burning.png


McCain had a reputation as a hot-dog pilot: he had crashed twice and flown into power lines before this. But you can't blame a pilot for his stationary plane being struck by a missile.

The Forrestal fire was caused by a combination of factors: a random electrical glitch, untrained flight crew, old and unstable ordnance stored around the flight deck, and an uncoordinated fire-response team. McCain, however, was a victim, not a perpetrator.
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Yup. He didn’t shoot. He got shot.
 
Ransom said:
This simply isn't factual. It was McCain's A-4, or the one next to his, that was struck by the missile, which was accidentally launched from the other side of the flight deck.

The usual way the canard is stated is that McCain did a "wet start" on his plane--dumping fuel into the engine to shake up the pilot behind him with a big flame. This supposedly triggered the Zuni rocket that caused the disaster.

The problem is that, as photos of the fire show, the planes were parked along the edge of the flight deck with the engines facing outboard. There was no plane behind McCain's--only ocean.

800px-USS_Forrestal_A-4_Skyhawk_burning.png


McCain had a reputation as a hot-dog pilot: he had crashed twice and flown into power lines before this. But you can't blame a pilot for his stationary plane being struck by a missile.

The Forrestal fire was caused by a combination of factors: a random electrical glitch, untrained flight crew, old and unstable ordnance stored around the flight deck, and an uncoordinated fire-response team. McCain, however, was a victim, not a perpetrator.
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i will grant you it is not what the navy landed on as it;s official report.... but what i wrote was all part of the testmonys given by many eye witnesses.... ..like any chaotic wartime incident there were many conflicting eye witness reports surrounding it .... but when 130 of them are dead it;s difficult to get a full reporting from all the eye witnesses.... .

in the end the navy did what the navy is known for doing... and made a report that put them and the son of one of their high ranking officers in the best light....... according to their report it was combination of factors and mistakes that placed the blame on everyone else involved - including a majority of the 130 dead sailors.... but left john mccain not only in the clear but named him as a victim.......

ok..... believe that if you want to.... but you weren;t there on board the forrestal that day any more than i was....(i wasn;t even born yet)..... so all either of us can do is take in the various reports and testimonies we have heard and read about it - then make our own evaluation..... it;s either a case of mccain being the only competent man on a ship of fools.. who ended up being not only a victim but also a hero..... .. or a case of a ship in a time of war and all that goes with that being put at risk by the actions of one man who was already known for doing hot starts and hot shot flying stunts... and who might have done it once again .... ...
 
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Bruh said:
He’s not an intellectual man he’s not well read and it’s very sad that someone like this may become president again.
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Would you rather be sad that Trump is president again or would you let the commies take over and impose their version of "paradise?" Kamala is pretty much a part of the "Squad" and they are as commie and socialist as all get out! She is bought and paid for by the deep state, Soros, and pretty much everyone else who hates the United States!

Trump is not my ideal candidate but I think I can put up with a few "mean tweets" during the next four years rather than the alternative.
 
Ransom said:
This simply isn't factual. It was McCain's A-4, or the one next to his, that was struck by the missile, which was accidentally launched from the other side of the flight deck.

The usual way the canard is stated is that McCain did a "wet start" on his plane--dumping fuel into the engine to shake up the pilot behind him with a big flame. This supposedly triggered the Zuni rocket that caused the disaster.

The problem is that, as photos of the fire show, the planes were parked along the edge of the flight deck with the engines facing outboard. There was no plane behind McCain's--only ocean.

800px-USS_Forrestal_A-4_Skyhawk_burning.png


McCain had a reputation as a hot-dog pilot: he had crashed twice and flown into power lines before this. But you can't blame a pilot for his stationary plane being struck by a missile.

The Forrestal fire was caused by a combination of factors: a random electrical glitch, untrained flight crew, old and unstable ordnance stored around the flight deck, and an uncoordinated fire-response team. McCain, however, was a victim, not a perpetrator.
Click to expand...
It was stray voltage that set off a missile which then detonated all of the old bombs as you have said. In the Navy, we watched the Forrestall Fire tape numerous times as a reminder of things not to do and how complacency kills. "Man from Lox" was another scary video but somewhat amusing as well.

Yeah, I wish people would let this one about McCain die! It simply is not true.
 
Jo said:
I may have missed it because I have trouble reading between all the ......'s.

Clearly, you're not a McCain fan, nor are the veterans you know. What about the five years he was imprisoned and sometimes tortured in Vietnam? I admired the man.

When Trump makes remarks that have to be explained by several people on this forum, it makes me wonder if Trump's comments will push more people toward our first female president.

By the way, I'm an independent. I don't endorse either candidate.

P.S. My dad was in the Navy and a staunch Democrat.
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i was a mccain fan.... before he chose that fabulously stupid and winner of the lens crafter girls contest sarah palin as his running mate... ...he fell into that trap of listening to advisors who told him his running mate had to be a female for the sake of political correctness..... but i guess all in all she was a better choice than his other prospect... the governor of hawaii at that time ... linda lingle... whose stake in the political correctness game was that she was the only female republican governor in the country who was also openly lesbian....

i would never disrespect or discount your dads or anyone elses military service..... like i said my familiy is filled with military veterans and also active duty personnel.... (also a couple of contractors to the military....)....... they are all staunch republicans and i won;t deny they influence the opinions i have on many things..... ..

but i also made a few of my own opinions on mccain.... and in my view - mccain was a man who made poor choices... and then accepted the protective mantel friends and family tried to put around him insisting he should be above criticism for those choices because he was a "war hero".... .... i am not saying mccain tried to put that mantel on himself.... he never had to.... special protected status comes automatically to anyone who is the son of a navy admiral.... .. and i know that because my brother in law... (who is himself a naval officer ... and also lives in this same house when he is not out at sea).... is the son of a navy admiral....... ...... and that is probably all i should say about that......

sorry for the numerous dots >.......... or elipses in my writing.... ... but among many conditions and situations that effect my communication skills is that my hands shake any time i am not using them unless i rest them on something.... and my little finger on my right hand tends to land on that key between sentences when i put it down... ... i also can;t help hitting the ; key... rather than the ' key next to it when i should due to the 3rd finger on my right hand turning inward.... that is due to shooting a heavy traditional longbow since i was a teenager...over the years it has just developed that way....... ..... what makes all that worse is i have tendon and nerve damage in both forearms and hands due to a foolish but very serious suicide attempt i made when i was 13.... when i first type a post it;s a mess and i always go back and make corrections to them... always more than once.... but the elipses and the ; are 2 of the things that either escape my attention or are just too much to try and correct....
 
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aleshanee said:
ok..... believe that if you want to....
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I already do, but thanks anyway.

Meanwhile, here again is the picture I posted in my previous post. The circled plane is McCain's A-4.

USS_Forrestal_A-4_Skyhawk_burning.png

Contrary to the Navy's own investigation, I have heard that either:

  • it was McCain who fired the rocket across the deck; or
  • McCain's wet start caused the plane behind him to fire the rocket

If anyone can explain how this picture credibly supports either of those assertions, I'm all ears.
 
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aleshanee said:
i was a mccain fan.... before he chose that fabulously stupid and winner of the lens crafter girls contest sarah palin as his running mate... ...he fell into that trap of listening to advisors who told him his running mate had to be a female for the sake of political correctness..... but i guess all in all she was a better choice than his other prospect... the governor of hawaii at that time ... linda lingle... whose stake in the political correctness game was that she was the only female republican governor in the country who was also openly lesbian....

i would never disrespect or discount your dads or anyone elses military service..... like i said my familiy is filled with military veterans and also active duty personnel.... (also a couple of contractors to the military....)....... they are all staunch republicans and i won;t deny they influence the opinions i have on many things..... ..

but i also made a few of my own opinions on mccain.... and in my view - mccain was a man who made poor choices... and then accepted the protective mantel friends and family tried to put around him insisting he should be above criticism for those choices because he was a "war hero".... .... i am not saying mccain tried to put that mantel on himself.... he never had to.... special protected status comes automatically to anyone who is the son of a navy admiral.... .. and i know that because my brother in law... (who is himself a naval officer ... and also lives in this same house when he is not out at sea).... is the son of a navy admiral....... ...... and that is probably all i should say about that......

sorry for the numerous dots >.......... or elipses in my writing.... ... but among many conditions and situations that effect my communication skills is that my hands shake any time i am not using them unless i rest them on something.... and my little finger on my right hand tends to land on that key between sentences when i put it down... ... i also can;t help hitting the ; key... rather than the ' key next to it when i should due to the 3rd finger on my right hand turning inward.... that is due to shooting a heavy traditional longbow since i was a teenager...over the years it has just developed that way....... ..... what makes all that worse is i have tendon and nerve damage in both forearms and hands due to a foolish but very serious suicide attempt i made when i was 13.... when i first type a post it;s a mess and i always go back and make corrections to them... always more than once.... but the elipses and the ; are 2 of the things that either escape my attention or are just too much to try and correct....
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Sorry I mentioned the ellipsis. Please take care of yourself. We may disagree regarding Trump, but I admire you for many reasons.
 
aleshanee said:
so....... i guess i am saying all that to say that using trumps insult of mccain - and the fact mccain was a veteran - as an example of why we would all share your dim view of donald trump doesn;t have much effect on me... .i have heard far worse about mccain from others who are veterans themselves....
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In fairness, i’m not attempting to persuade anybody to my view of Trump, however dim it may be perceived to be. I simply don’t understand why he has to get in his own way. I think it was Lindsey Graham that said any other Republican with his record would be up by 10 points on Harris and more recently “Donald Trump the provocateur, the showman, may not win this election,”
 
Ekklesian said:
If it weren't for a left-leaning and anti-Trump bias, no explanation would be necessary.
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The mainstream media certainly has all that bias, I don’t, and certainly couldn’t be described as “anti-Trump”.

I’m talking about issues that causes certain demographics in the middle of the spectrum to turn away from Trump at the polls, and it’s all so unnecessary. His ego gets the best of him all too often. He lost in 2020 by a razor-thin margin, and he doesn’t have any extra padding this go-round either. It’s not the mainstream media to blame, it’s his megalomania.
 
Ransom said:
I already do, but thanks anyway.

Meanwhile, here again is the picture I posted in my previous post. The circled plane is McCain's A-4.

View attachment 5819

Contrary to the Navy's own investigation, I have heard that either:

  • it was McCain who fired the rocket across the deck; or
  • McCain's wet start caused the plain behind him to fire the rocket

If anyone can explain how this picture credibly supports either of those assertions, I'm all ears.
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how does a solitary photograph of 2 jets on fire prove or disprove anything at all?...... much less when or from where a rocket was fired across the deck?..

it can;t... and it doesn;t..... and not many people in that picture were left to explain it either - coz practically that entire group you see staring in the direction the missile was supposed to have hit... rather than looking in the direction it was rumored to have come from.... were killed moments later in the aftermath - when bombs being stored on board exploaded and they tried to fight the fires....

but if judging it on the picture alone... then it made more sense even at the time to surmise that the fire started by a hot or wet start of mccains engine... and which then engulfed both his plane and the plane behind his - to cook off zuni rockets under the wings and fire them..... it also made more sense to believe any rocket fired came from an A4 skyhawk such as he was flying - which frequently carried the zuni rocket... an air to ground munition - rather than an F4 phantom... none of which can be seen in the picture facing towards mccains jet - and which would have been less likely to carry zuni rockets ....as it was being used primarily as air to air defense rather than ground attack.. at the time...

and mccain himself failed to offer any explanations - as he claimed in the days that followed to have no or very limited memory of what actually happened.... this fact alone coming from a guy with a history of disregarding safety rules and performing hot shot stunts is one of the main reasons suspicion for being at fault fell on him....

and then of course there are people who know the u.s. navy very well and who have seen it make up stories to explain away what happened after numerous other incidents and accidents over the years.... some of them have actually seen the navy tell a lie straight to their face concerning events they either witnessed or were a part of ...and to tell them "this is the official story we are going with and you will believe it"....'

like everyone else i was taught a picture is worth a thousand words.... but i have to say i think that one comes up short.....
 
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Baptist Renegade said:
Would you rather be sad that Trump is president again or would you let the commies take over and impose their version of "paradise?" Kamala is pretty much a part of the "Squad" and they are as commie and socialist as all get out! She is bought and paid for by the deep state, Soros, and pretty much everyone else who hates the United States!

Trump is not my ideal candidate but I think I can put up with a few "mean tweets" during the next four years rather than the alternative.
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I’m not worried about his tweets.

When ppl give an explanation alternative like the one you give I always think……would you rather eat poop that smells bad or would you rather eat poop that smells good?

I’m gonna vote for Trump. There are you happy 😂

If I got a choice I guess I’ll eat the poop that doesn’t smell bad.

Compare Trump to a good president or a great president what are you left with?
 
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