Thoughts about free grace theology

[christundivided]

What if I hadn't come back? I don't know.

If you're elect, you will come back.  There is no "if" about it.

I also firmly believe in the perseverance of the SAINTS.
Not everyone who calls me Lord wont enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Not everyone who professes, possesses.

Psa 139:7  Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8  If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9  If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10  Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

 

[christundivided]

Heard this quote on the radio attributed to a very famous evangelical preacher:

"The Bible clearly teaches that God’s love for His People is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand."

This idea was referred to as "free grace" theology.  Thoughts?

A more descriptive term would be cheap grace.

So you actually believe those in Christ can "slip from His hand"?

Do you really believe those in Christ can continue to happily live like the Devil as if they weren't saved?  (Romans 6)

So you haven't lived like the Devil since you meet Christ? Did you slip from His Hand? Did climb back into His Hand?

I haven't walked away from the faith as if I had never been saved.  You?

Yes, I have. For several years when my wife left me. I can't explain my bitterness. You can't... unless you've been there.

Do you consider yourself better than anyone else that has?

No. Certainly not.  Do you consider yourself the exception to the clear teaching of Scripture due to your circumstances?  1 John 2

I John 2 is about fellowship and not relationship. I never said I fellow-shipped with God in my sin. I will say that I still knew the presence of God. That presence that makes us cry "Abba Father".

 

[BandGuy]

Heard this quote on the radio attributed to a very famous evangelical preacher:

"The Bible clearly teaches that God’s love for His People is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand."

This idea was referred to as "free grace" theology.  Thoughts?

A more descriptive term would be cheap grace.

So you actually believe those in Christ can "slip from His hand"?

Do you really believe those in Christ can continue to happily live like the Devil as if they weren't saved?  (Romans 6)

So you haven't lived like the Devil since you meet Christ? Did you slip from His Hand? Did climb back into His Hand?

I haven't walked away from the faith as if I had never been saved.  You?

Yes, I have. For several years when my wife left me. I can't explain my bitterness. You can't... unless you've been there.

Do you consider yourself better than anyone else that has?

No. Certainly not.  Do you consider yourself the exception to the clear teaching of Scripture due to your circumstances?  1 John 2

I John 2 is about fellowship and not relationship. I never said I fellow-shipped with God in my sin. I will say that I still knew the presence of God. That presence that makes us cry "Abba Father".

Actually, no, this is not what 1 John 2 is about at all:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

If you know God, you have a relationship with Him.  Try again.

 

[BandGuy]

John clarifies even further later in the chapter:

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

 

[BandGuy]

Here would be another few quote from the same author to clarify his beliefs:

“Even if a believer for all purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy."

"Saving Faith is not necessarily a sustained attitude of gratefuleness for God's gift. It is a singular moment in time wherein we take what God has offered."

 

[Timothy]

Here would be another few quote from the same author to clarify his beliefs:

“Even if a believer for all purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy."

"Saving Faith is not necessarily a sustained attitude of gratefuleness for God's gift. It is a singular moment in time wherein we take what God has offered."

How could a genuine believer ever become an unbeliever?

 

[lnf]

Timothy asked:  How could a genuine believer ever become an unbeliever?

Some people who profess to be unbelievers actually just have "issues" with God.  Years ago, my own step-daughter told me she didn't believe in God anymore, due to several issues she had with Him.  Her complaints usually started with, "How could He..." or "If there were a God, why would He let..."

We had some very lively discussions about it.  One day, she actually ran out of our house when I told her that God still loved her, even in her unbelief.  My husband chased after her, then later forbade me to talk "religion" with her ever again. 

He didn't forbid me to talk to her, though, and my normal speech is peppered with references to my faith.  It was almost comical, if it weren't so tragic, to witness her trying to scrub her speech of any references to spiritually or religion when she and I were in a conversation.  She would make a reference to prayer, then stop in mid-sentence and change "pray" to "hope".  I always thought of her as a fence-sitting agnostic because of how hard she tried to make me believe that she was an atheist...

My husband died close to 5 years ago.  She walked out of my life on the day of his funeral.  She emailed me to say she couldn't see me anymore because, and I quote, "You remind me of death."  How's that for a kick in the stomach?  A couple of years ago, she showed up unannounced, drunk and stricken...so much so that I didn't recognize her at first.  I welcomed her warmly.  We spoke for awhile, then I drove her home. 

Anyway, very recently, she called me...to apologize for the way she had treated me and to ask if she could come over on the weekend.  We spoke that night on the phone for more than an hour.  I was struck by how she was no longer masking any references to God.  She showed up for our meeting, right on time.  This is a changed woman.  She's still seeking, not quite at peace, but oh, so different than she was 5 years ago.

And I said all that to give my answer to Timothy's question:  I don't think they can...because He will go after His lost sheep.   

 

[OZZY]

To lose ones salvation means you must not have WORKED hard enough to keep


For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


It is not ours to lose ! It's His  salvation

 

[christundivided]

Actually, no, this is not what 1 John 2 is about at all:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ

If you know God, you have a relationship with Him.  Try again.

Do you now what that word advocate means? The lost have no advocate!

Try again.

 

[Torrent v.3]

What if I hadn't come back? I don't know.

If you're elect, you will come back.  There is no "if" about it.

I also firmly believe in the perseverance of the SAINTS.
Not everyone who calls me Lord wont enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Not everyone who professes, possesses.

I agree. And there are some who think they are entering the kingdom who are not, so it is not about having intellectual confidence.

 

[BandGuy]

Actually, no, this is not what 1 John 2 is about at all:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ

If you know God, you have a relationship with Him.  Try again.

Do you now what that word advocate means? The lost have no advocate!

Try again.

I actually agree.  And the saved do not become unbelievers.  Try again.

 

[Timothy]

Timothy asked:  How could a genuine believer ever become an unbeliever?

Some people who profess to be unbelievers actually just have "issues" with God.  Years ago, my own step-daughter told me she didn't believe in God anymore, due to several issues she had with Him.  Her complaints usually started with, "How could He..." or "If there were a God, why would He let..."

We had some very lively discussions about it.  One day, she actually ran out of our house when I told her that God still loved her, even in her unbelief.  My husband chased after her, then later forbade me to talk "religion" with her ever again. 

He didn't forbid me to talk to her, though, and my normal speech is peppered with references to my faith.  It was almost comical, if it weren't so tragic, to witness her trying to scrub her speech of any references to spiritually or religion when she and I were in a conversation.  She would make a reference to prayer, then stop in mid-sentence and change "pray" to "hope".  I always thought of her as a fence-sitting agnostic because of how hard she tried to make me believe that she was an atheist...

My husband died close to 5 years ago.  She walked out of my life on the day of his funeral.  She emailed me to say she couldn't see me anymore because, and I quote, "You remind me of death."  How's that for a kick in the stomach?  A couple of years ago, she showed up unannounced, drunk and stricken...so much so that I didn't recognize her at first.  I welcomed her warmly.  We spoke for awhile, then I drove her home. 

Anyway, very recently, she called me...to apologize for the way she had treated me and to ask if she could come over on the weekend.  We spoke that night on the phone for more than an hour.  I was struck by how she was no longer masking any references to God.  She showed up for our meeting, right on time.  This is a changed woman.  She's still seeking, not quite at peace, but oh, so different than she was 5 years ago.

And I said all that to give my answer to Timothy's question:  I don't think they can...because He will go after His lost sheep. 

Very nice post. God's Children don't stay in the pigpen.

 

[christundivided]

Timothy asked:  How could a genuine believer ever become an unbeliever?

Some people who profess to be unbelievers actually just have "issues" with God.  Years ago, my own step-daughter told me she didn't believe in God anymore, due to several issues she had with Him.  Her complaints usually started with, "How could He..." or "If there were a God, why would He let..."

We had some very lively discussions about it.  One day, she actually ran out of our house when I told her that God still loved her, even in her unbelief.  My husband chased after her, then later forbade me to talk "religion" with her ever again. 

He didn't forbid me to talk to her, though, and my normal speech is peppered with references to my faith.  It was almost comical, if it weren't so tragic, to witness her trying to scrub her speech of any references to spiritually or religion when she and I were in a conversation.  She would make a reference to prayer, then stop in mid-sentence and change "pray" to "hope".  I always thought of her as a fence-sitting agnostic because of how hard she tried to make me believe that she was an atheist...

My husband died close to 5 years ago.  She walked out of my life on the day of his funeral.  She emailed me to say she couldn't see me anymore because, and I quote, "You remind me of death."  How's that for a kick in the stomach?  A couple of years ago, she showed up unannounced, drunk and stricken...so much so that I didn't recognize her at first.  I welcomed her warmly.  We spoke for awhile, then I drove her home. 

Anyway, very recently, she called me...to apologize for the way she had treated me and to ask if she could come over on the weekend.  We spoke that night on the phone for more than an hour.  I was struck by how she was no longer masking any references to God.  She showed up for our meeting, right on time.  This is a changed woman.  She's still seeking, not quite at peace, but oh, so different than she was 5 years ago.

And I said all that to give my answer to Timothy's question:  I don't think they can...because He will go after His lost sheep. 

Very nice post. God's Children don't stay in the pigpen.

Lot stayed in the pigpen. So did Solomon. So did King Saul..........

 

[christundivided]

Actually, no, this is not what 1 John 2 is about at all:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ

If you know God, you have a relationship with Him.  Try again.

Do you now what that word advocate means? The lost have no advocate!

Try again.

I actually agree.  And the saved do not become unbelievers.  Try again.

Never said the saved become unbelievers. You're one saying that 1 John 2 is about the lost. You then admit it isn't. Don't be double minded.

 

[Timothy]

Timothy asked:  How could a genuine believer ever become an unbeliever?

Some people who profess to be unbelievers actually just have "issues" with God.  Years ago, my own step-daughter told me she didn't believe in God anymore, due to several issues she had with Him.  Her complaints usually started with, "How could He..." or "If there were a God, why would He let..."

We had some very lively discussions about it.  One day, she actually ran out of our house when I told her that God still loved her, even in her unbelief.  My husband chased after her, then later forbade me to talk "religion" with her ever again. 

He didn't forbid me to talk to her, though, and my normal speech is peppered with references to my faith.  It was almost comical, if it weren't so tragic, to witness her trying to scrub her speech of any references to spiritually or religion when she and I were in a conversation.  She would make a reference to prayer, then stop in mid-sentence and change "pray" to "hope".  I always thought of her as a fence-sitting agnostic because of how hard she tried to make me believe that she was an atheist...

My husband died close to 5 years ago.  She walked out of my life on the day of his funeral.  She emailed me to say she couldn't see me anymore because, and I quote, "You remind me of death."  How's that for a kick in the stomach?  A couple of years ago, she showed up unannounced, drunk and stricken...so much so that I didn't recognize her at first.  I welcomed her warmly.  We spoke for awhile, then I drove her home. 

Anyway, very recently, she called me...to apologize for the way she had treated me and to ask if she could come over on the weekend.  We spoke that night on the phone for more than an hour.  I was struck by how she was no longer masking any references to God.  She showed up for our meeting, right on time.  This is a changed woman.  She's still seeking, not quite at peace, but oh, so different than she was 5 years ago.

And I said all that to give my answer to Timothy's question:  I don't think they can...because He will go after His lost sheep. 

Very nice post. God's Children don't stay in the pigpen.

Lot stayed in the pigpen. So did Solomon. So did King Saul..........

i doubt heaven is a pigpen ...

 

[christundivided]

Timothy asked:  How could a genuine believer ever become an unbeliever?

Some people who profess to be unbelievers actually just have "issues" with God.  Years ago, my own step-daughter told me she didn't believe in God anymore, due to several issues she had with Him.  Her complaints usually started with, "How could He..." or "If there were a God, why would He let..."

We had some very lively discussions about it.  One day, she actually ran out of our house when I told her that God still loved her, even in her unbelief.  My husband chased after her, then later forbade me to talk "religion" with her ever again. 

He didn't forbid me to talk to her, though, and my normal speech is peppered with references to my faith.  It was almost comical, if it weren't so tragic, to witness her trying to scrub her speech of any references to spiritually or religion when she and I were in a conversation.  She would make a reference to prayer, then stop in mid-sentence and change "pray" to "hope".  I always thought of her as a fence-sitting agnostic because of how hard she tried to make me believe that she was an atheist...

My husband died close to 5 years ago.  She walked out of my life on the day of his funeral.  She emailed me to say she couldn't see me anymore because, and I quote, "You remind me of death."  How's that for a kick in the stomach?  A couple of years ago, she showed up unannounced, drunk and stricken...so much so that I didn't recognize her at first.  I welcomed her warmly.  We spoke for awhile, then I drove her home. 

Anyway, very recently, she called me...to apologize for the way she had treated me and to ask if she could come over on the weekend.  We spoke that night on the phone for more than an hour.  I was struck by how she was no longer masking any references to God.  She showed up for our meeting, right on time.  This is a changed woman.  She's still seeking, not quite at peace, but oh, so different than she was 5 years ago.

And I said all that to give my answer to Timothy's question:  I don't think they can...because He will go after His lost sheep. 

Very nice post. God's Children don't stay in the pigpen.

Lot stayed in the pigpen. So did Solomon. So did King Saul..........

i doubt heaven is a pigpen ...

Neither is the pigpen heaven.

 

[BandGuy]

Actually, no, this is not what 1 John 2 is about at all:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ

If you know God, you have a relationship with Him.  Try again.

Do you now what that word advocate means? The lost have no advocate!

Try again.

I actually agree.  And the saved do not become unbelievers.  Try again.

Never said the saved become unbelievers. You're one saying that 1 John 2 is about the lost. You then admit it isn't. Don't be double minded.

I never admitted that it wasn't about the lost.  You can't lose your faith and be a believer at the same time.  Don't you be double minded.

 

[Timothy]

Timothy asked:  How could a genuine believer ever become an unbeliever?

Some people who profess to be unbelievers actually just have "issues" with God.  Years ago, my own step-daughter told me she didn't believe in God anymore, due to several issues she had with Him.  Her complaints usually started with, "How could He..." or "If there were a God, why would He let..."

We had some very lively discussions about it.  One day, she actually ran out of our house when I told her that God still loved her, even in her unbelief.  My husband chased after her, then later forbade me to talk "religion" with her ever again. 

He didn't forbid me to talk to her, though, and my normal speech is peppered with references to my faith.  It was almost comical, if it weren't so tragic, to witness her trying to scrub her speech of any references to spiritually or religion when she and I were in a conversation.  She would make a reference to prayer, then stop in mid-sentence and change "pray" to "hope".  I always thought of her as a fence-sitting agnostic because of how hard she tried to make me believe that she was an atheist...

My husband died close to 5 years ago.  She walked out of my life on the day of his funeral.  She emailed me to say she couldn't see me anymore because, and I quote, "You remind me of death."  How's that for a kick in the stomach?  A couple of years ago, she showed up unannounced, drunk and stricken...so much so that I didn't recognize her at first.  I welcomed her warmly.  We spoke for awhile, then I drove her home. 

Anyway, very recently, she called me...to apologize for the way she had treated me and to ask if she could come over on the weekend.  We spoke that night on the phone for more than an hour.  I was struck by how she was no longer masking any references to God.  She showed up for our meeting, right on time.  This is a changed woman.  She's still seeking, not quite at peace, but oh, so different than she was 5 years ago.

And I said all that to give my answer to Timothy's question:  I don't think they can...because He will go after His lost sheep. 

Very nice post. God's Children don't stay in the pigpen.

Lot stayed in the pigpen. So did Solomon. So did King Saul..........

i doubt heaven is a pigpen ...

Neither is the pigpen heaven.

True that - but, once in heaven we won't have the flesh to want the mud.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Grace is free, and you'll never lose it as long as you keep up on your monthly payments. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Grace is free, and you'll never lose it as long as you keep up on your monthly payments.

What's your interest rate?